Oil/Air Separator Canister Experiment

[Inroads]

^^^That would concern me because it is dumping right at the rear tire.

Also your pic looks like the shifter is walking out on the spline just a tad.

I had a problem with the shifter loosening up and I installed a longer thru bolt and installed

A nut on the other end so I could really get a bite on the spline.

Maybe it's not a problem just looks like it might be loose.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Inroads

^^^That would concern me because it is dumping right at the rear tire.

I've never had a bike that didn't dump right there....well, my old Harley dumped on the chain. That was actually a nice use for the vapor! ;-)

[Inroads]

^^^ what if you shortened the hose and dumped in the skidplate area. ?

That might give it a chance to collect and evaporate some and stay away from

The vicinity of the rear tire.

[pyoungbl]

The amount of oil being expelled is actually very small and air flow alone will swirl it away from the rear tire. You will see a light sheen on the panniers and fender. Oil being flung off the chain will create a greater mess.

You can check the amount of blowby. Disconnect the hose at the airbox. Crank up the engine and feel for blowby. Rev the engine and check again. Mine was hardly noticable at 5K rpm. I'm sure there is more at 8-9K but nothing like a steady stream of gas with a heavy load of oil drops.

Peter Y.

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by Inroads

......My OCS is in the "official" position (which creates more liquid than the flip side)

I'm not sure which is the official position, but the OCS should have the cap at the top (facing up).

If it is not, the gases going into the airbox are unfiltered.



jb

[AdventureDad]

interesting...I wonder how many problems were associated with it being in the upside down setting? That would/could account for increased carbon or soot/sludge buildup.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by pyoungbl

The amount of oil being expelled is actually very small and air flow alone will swirl it away from the rear tire. You will see a light sheen on the panniers and fender. Oil being flung off the chain will create a greater mess.

You can check the amount of blowby. Disconnect the hose at the airbox. Crank up the engine and feel for blowby. Rev the engine and check again. Mine was hardly noticable at 5K rpm. I'm sure there is more at 8-9K but nothing like a steady stream of gas with a heavy load of oil drops.

Peter Y.

Agreed. To me, my guess is that this entire contraption (OCS flipped either way, hoses, clear drain tube, etc...) is due to EPA and the need to catch and burn any and all HC's.

They want what little vapor that comes out of there to be run back through the motor, via intake. That would be a noble concept if it actually worked as such. Instead, they had to attach a trap to catch the heavier stuff (OCS thingy).....just so the rider can dump it into the soil instead of letting a very minor amount of vapor escape into the atmosphere.

So, my choice was do I want to play the "dump the concentrated pollutants while no one's looking" game, or do I want to avoid running that vapor across any and all sensors that effect the run-ability of the bike because of the EFI?

I may end up putting a small filter on the end but again, that would just create a place for the vapor to condense and drip.

Just thoughts.........

[AdventureDad]

Heres a thought for you engineers.... maybe it's a question. We've heard about the engine failures, and speculation it could be caused in part by carbon buildup. The bikes come with a hotter plug than other engines of this nature, and the same nc250 engine used in other applications. I refuse to believe it is due to the fuel. IF the engine was not designed with the OCS in mind, and it was an add-on for the US and or Euro market, maybe it doesn't play well with the overall engine and is introducing carbon, oil sludge mist to the intake, which cannot be burnt off, due to lower temps, and also introducing fuel to the oil, creating cylinder and bearing washing, etc, all leading to failure. In this case, it would be logical to remove it. Do the Chinese versions have it?

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by AdventureDad

Heres a thought for you engineers.... maybe it's a question. We've heard about the engine failures, and speculation it could be caused in part by carbon buildup. The bikes come with a hotter plug than other engines of this nature, and the same nc250 engine used in other applications. I refuse to believe it is due to the fuel. IF the engine was not designed with the OCS in mind, and it was an add-on for the US and or Euro market, maybe it doesn't play well with the overall engine and is introducing carbon, oil sludge mist to the intake, which cannot be burnt off, due to lower temps, and also introducing fuel to the oil, creating cylinder and bearing washing, etc, all leading to failure. In this case, it would be logical to remove it. Do the Chinese versions have it?

I'm no engineer, nor do I play one on TV, but I do have a tendency to ponder far too much. I'm going to keep on pondering this one too. Like you mentioned, I can't help but think it's an add-on for our market.

The odd thing is the blue RX3 I just picked up for Mrs 2LZ has 411 miles on it and not a spec of anything, nor discoloration in the clear tube and her OCS is in the "unofficial" position from the factory. Weird.

I'm going to keep mine open to vent for now and keep hers the way it is and see what happens and how the oil changes smell.

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Agreed. To me, my guess is that this entire contraption (OCS flipped either way, hoses, clear drain tube, etc...) is due to EPA and the need to catch and burn any and all HC's........

In order to be certified by the EPA, motor vehicles must have a "closed" fuel system.....no venting to the atmosphere, or it can't be sold in the US or EU.

In two weeks, 2017, the Euro 4 standards will go into effect in the EU that will have much more stringent emissions standards......and require ABS brakes.

This affects all new bikes. Since the RX3 has already passed the Euro 3 standards, it should be OK, at least for another year.

The RX 4 will have to meet the Euro 4 standards or it cannot be sold in the EU.

No one knows whether or not the EPA will adopt Euro 4 standards in the US.

jb

[Inroads]

So the the pic of the OCS that jbfla has posted is the "official" position.
My bike came in the unofficial position and I flipped it after some discussion by folks here
And at CSC when it was under discussion a while back.

[AdventureDad]

I agree with the closed system, but it's not a euro bike, its a chinese bike. I was wondering if it was an add on to achieve emission compliance. If it was not designed with and for the engine, it could have a negative outcome...i.e., sludge, carbon etc.

[jbfla]

Originally Posted by AdventureDad

I agree with the closed system, but it's not a euro bike, its a chinese bike. I was wondering if it was an add on to achieve emission compliance. If it was not designed with and for the engine, it could have a negative outcome...i.e., sludge, carbon etc.

AD,

The biggest negative outcome (and the worst for the engine) is to directly vent the crankcase gases back into the engine.

I have been spending a considerable amount of time reading about oil catch cans and air/fuel separators.

They are beneficial for the performance and longevity of an engines.

Many race cars are adding them.

The OCS on the RX 3 is an attempt to keep the most harmful byproducts of combustion and oil mist out of the engine.

If the fluids that collect in the OCS collection tube were fed back into the airbox, the airbox and the rest of the engine internals would experience a build up that would eventually effect the engine's performance.

The fluids would also affect the fuel/air mixture.

The problem, IMO, is as 2LZ mentioned, what do you do with the fluid in the collection tube?

Dumping it on the ground, or letting it drip, is nearly as environmentally unfriendly as venting the crankcase directly to the atmosphere.

As for the RX3 not being a Euro bike, it will have to be, if it is to be sold in the EU.

The RX 3 is already a "world" bike. If it wants to continue to be, it will need to meet the world standards.

jb

[jbfla]

Here's the latest oil analysis:

This is with the 90C (194F) thermostat and the OSC canister in the stock configuration.




The fuel in the oil is less than 0.5%

That is practically none.

If you look across that line on the chart, you can see the percentages from the previous 5 oil analyses.

jb

[pyoungbl]

Great! I also see that the viscosity has improved as well as the flash point. As far as I am concerned, the 90C thermostat is a major improvement and well worth both the time and money. I'll be sending off a sample soon, just need decent weather to actually put miles on the bike.

Peter Y.