The smoking topic

[Jim]

Since it has come up more then a few times in the health care topic, here it is, the smoking topic!


My opinion may not be very popular. I would be perfectly happy to see smoking banned 100% in Canada, or the tax on them raised a good 300%. I am very grateful that the restrictions are as strict as they are here, when I was in Vegas it is very different. Smoking is everywhere, I left a couple Blackjack tables because I wanted some clean air. The elevator in our hotel looked like an ashtray.

Not all, but I think a lot of smokers are inconsiderate. I've had (years ago) a smoker knock his ashes into my food as I was walking by (he was a "step up" kind of deal in a stadium, not at a row with seats but at a wall or something). I have had a smoker throw their cigarette butt out of their car window only to miss my foot by an inch or so while I was wearing sandals, they were lucky I was on my way too the store and not back, or they would have had a carton of milk upside their car. I've been burnt (minor but it still stings when it happens) by cigarettes left places.

A lot of people do litter, but a lot of people don't. Almost every smoker is perfectly fine tossing a cigarette butt wherever they feel is convenient. It's not hard to find them, they are everywhere. They also toss them out of the car and start fires on highway medians or occasionally even a forest fire.

I had a friend, who is young and has a wife and kid, ask to borrow money so they could buy food. They some how still managed to have cigarettes.

The smoke smells disgusting and is unhealthy for the smoker and everyone around the smoker. It gets into everything, house sitting at a house that belongs to smokers, I don't notice it so much when I'm there, but when I leave I can smell it on me and in my clothes. Being so enveloped in it, you don't realize it, but you do stink.

Smokers often get pissed off when people are offended by their smoking. They like to compare it to an obese person who eats too much fast food. The difference is the obese person doesn't put off toxic second hand smoke and is only hurting themselves.

As a smoker you may complain about the tax, as a non smoker who has to put up with all of the associated negative traits, I say raise the tax, or ban them all together. In todays society, when we know what we do about the negative effects of smoking there is no reason to smoke. Some may think it looks cool, many think it's gross. It's definitely unhealthy. Yellow teeth aren't very nice either. It's expensive. You offend a lot of people around you.

I have been vocal in person to people who offended me with their smoking. When I was younger my uncles used to come over to our house and chain smoke. It would funnel it's way up to my room. I made a nice no smoking sign and put it up in the kitchen. I don't think it stayed up, but since then they've never smoked inside the house. Sitting around with friends one of them started smoking and I moved further away, he asked if it was him or just his smoking jokingly and I said yes, it is your smoking.

All my complaining aside some smokers can be considerate, it is still a disgusting expensive habit with negative effects.

Why keep it around, why isn't it banned completely? I'm not an expert, but it was mentioned, the government rakes in huge amounts of money off the taxes. Where exactly that money goes and if it counteracts the money required to be spent on health care due to smoking, I don't know. I don't have the numbers. Smoking and Quiting smoking though are big businesss... And there doesn't seem to be anything our government likes more then big business.

[TurboT]

Mate you put it right in the end of your note why smoking isn't banned.

This is coming from a smoker. I was surrounded by it as a youth, my dad smoked in the house for years, people would come over and smoke and add to the polution. I think I was addicted to smoking before I was 10 from second hand smoke. I can't blame my parents, it was a different time.

I don't smoke in my house. I don't smoke in the car with my kids in it, and never without the window open.

I don't see the inconsiderate smokers much. I myself try to get as far away from people as possible when smoking out of respect for them... but I realize that is just me.

You speak to anyone who's dealt with addiction and they will tell you cigarettes are harder to kick than heroin or alcohol. They've been sinisterly(not a word?) engineered that way over decades.

Our Canadian government is an equal partner in this. They've taxed this product so heavily over the past 20 years it would probably blow your mind the amount that has been collected. When smokes were $1.50/pack in the US, they were $5.50 here. They are now pushing $10.00/pack. I don't know what they are worth in the US now, but probably around $4-5. Cigarette companies are billion dollar enterprises, and I'm positive the Canadian government is collecting more revenue in taxation than the cig companies collect in profits.

I do belive this product should have been banned long ago, much like marijuana or heroin or any other addictive drug. The only difference is it's not 'mind altering' and people can 'use' the drug without immediate mental side effects.

I will tell you from a smoker's point, the instant you put out your smoke, the drugs is fooling your brain into wanting another, making you think about when you'll get the next one. It's a very sinister product...and again, this is coming from a smoker.

[katoranger]

Smoking has been banned in alot of GA restaurants and bars. I don't go to bars, but its nice to eat a restaurant that may have a bar in it and not come out smelling like an ashtray.

I remember back in the 80s(don't remember the 70s) that smoking was everywhere. I don't see it as much now.

I support higher taxes on cigarettes too. Helps people quit.

Along with the helping the friend. Far to many times to I go to the store and have someone ahead me pay with foodstamps and then find the cash for the beer and cigarettes.

Many don't think that butts are litter. Amazing isn't it.

[Jim]

@Turbo
Thanks for your thoughts

When I said "there is no reason to smoke" I should have said, there is no reason to start smoking.

I agree that it was a different time, and smoking used to even be recommended by doctors at one time I think?

Not that I am endorsing their use, but like you said, unlike other drugs, cigarettes aren't 'mind altering', this is another argument against it. To me it says, well then whats the point? Unless you like the taste (which I understand many people do), it is like drinking non-alcoholic beer. In my mind, people drink for the effects of the alcohol, to some varying degree. Maybe some do for the taste? Or the social aspect?

Thank you for being considerate when you smoke


@Kato
I went to look into where smoking is banned in BC and this is what I found.
Smoking is banned indoor in public and work places, and near doors and windows. For some reason I thought they were working on banning smoking in cars, but I'm not sure.

I agree it is very nice to go out for a meal and not be in a smoke-filled environment.

On the same page I found the above information on, I also found this:

Tobacco-related illness is the leading cause of preventable death in BC. Tobacco use causes up to 6,000 deaths in BC each year. Smoking kills more people in BC than all other drugs, motor vehicle collisions, murder, suicide and HIV/AIDS combined.

Many don't think that butts are litter. Amazing isn't it.

It is. I don't get the thinking on that one.
I found this page on the subject http://whyquit.com/whyquit/A_Butts.html

[katoranger]

Cigarettes in the US probably $3-7 depending on brand and location. Could be more I don't know. I was in Arkansas last March and the state had just implemented a new tax that added significantly to the price. People were going to nearby states to buy them.

TurboT, does it make it more enticing to quit with higher prices for you? How do you think it influences your kids?

I have noticed alot of quit smoking ads lately on TV and billboards. Maybe some kind of stimulus money. Hey even our President smokes.

Obesity is just as bad for one's health, but at least it doesn't harm your neighbor.

Also thanks for being a considerate smoker.

[katoranger]

Originally Posted by Jim

I found this page on the subject http://whyquit.com/whyquit/A_Butts.html

U.S. LitterButt's Pledge
I pledge allegiance, as I trash, the United States of America, and to the cigarette butt carpet under which it's hidden, one more, what can it hurt, another non-biodegradable acetate filter for all.
John R. Polito - July 4, 2002


Too Funny.

One of my pet peaves is the smoking near doors to public buildings. I was just south of Nashville and stopped a gas station. Guy ahead of me walking to the door is smoking. He takes a drag and then flicks the butt into the ashtray at the door and continues inside to exhale. 8O

Off course the inside of the station wasn't much better.

[TurboT]

Here's the problem with raising the cost of smokes:
It won't matter to the addicted smoker. You can't think of it as a product, it's a drug, it's addictive and people who smoke will want to smoke before they eat, much like a heroin user. You've just said you see people buying food with stamps, but still buying smokes with cash. It's a sinister product engineered to be as addictive as possible. You make it so expensive you'll have people breaking into cars to get money to buy smokes. You ban it altogether, you'll have a black market trade for it much like heroin, coke, E, etc.

It tastes bad, you smell bad, it kills you. I should sue the government for making it legal for me to have had access to it readily and easily...and for my parents to be fooled into thinking it was okay to addict their children to it blindly fooled by government allowed product and marketing.

See I know all this but as I'm typing the drug makes me want to go out and suck some more poison into my lungs. For what? To stop the chemicals that are leaving my body telling my brain I need more, and more, and more.

Alan Carr's "The Easy Way to Stop Smoking" is an enlightening read. It tells smokers and non-smokers what the drug is doing to you and why it's so hard to quit. I read 3/4 of it, stopped, then lost the darn book. I need to find it again.

[Jim]

We have a lot of anti-smoking campaigns going on here too, and I think many of them are government run. It seems like such a conflict of interest with them raking in the tax money, but I guess that's as far as they can go, rather then outright banning it, since it still makes them money.

Theres also a program to earn $5000 if you go through school smoke free. http://www.rewardsfoundation.com/ That seems a bit much to me, but I guess they're trying the carrot method rather then the stick.

@Turbo
They have the book in book and audio book format at the Fraser Valley regional libraries. Odd I didn't see a library listed in Surrey, is it a seperate library district or something, they have locations in Langley and Delta. With Surrey being such a big city I would expect they have a library somewhere.

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by Jim

We have a lot of anti-smoking campaigns going on here too, and I think many of them are government run. It seems like such a conflict of interest with them raking in the tax money, but I guess that's as far as they can go, rather then outright banning it, since it still makes them money.

Theres also a program to earn $5000 if you go through school smoke free. http://www.rewardsfoundation.com/ That seems a bit much to me, but I guess they're trying the carrot method rather then the stick.

They should give me $5000 to stop.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by TurboT

They should give me $5000 to stop.

Would that work though? You said "It won't matter to the addicted smoker".

[katoranger]

Your right on the cost thing. People pay big bucks for illegal drugs. At least it may deter people from starting. Not many kids can afford $10 for cigarettes. Maybe that is the goal.

On my street, half the homeowners smoke. I know that one set smoke in the house. We don't visit friends who smoke in the homes. They can come to us or other places.

I remember that it really wasn't considered disrespectful to smoke in someone else's home or car when I was young. People smoked everywhere. I remember my teachers smoking in the school. The students were around the back side smoking.

Anyway Turbo, I hope that you can successful quit. At least you know its bad and others don't like it.

In some of those healthcare links I noticed the smoking in Canada and the US was about the same rate.

Surprising my Dad didn't smoke. My Grandfather chewed and all his brothers smoked. Dutch people seem to like their tobacco.

Allen

[Cal25]

Alot of thoughts have already been said about this. I as a non smoker dont think smoking should be banned. I dont even support higher taxes as the higher taxes just go to the general fund to be spent by polititions and not healthcare.

Making it more difficult for young people to get started would be a way to cut down on smoking. Raise the minimum age every few years. even that is a form of a bann though.

One thing I have noticed is that some of the people that are most offended by smoking are former smokers themselves.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by Cal25

One thing I have noticed is that some of the people that are most offended by smoking are former smokers themselves.

I think that probably has to do with them fighting with the addiction still.

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by Jim

Would that work though? You said "It won't matter to the addicted smoker".

Every little bit of incentive can help you battle your brain into thinking you need it. If there was a $5000 gift at the end of the rainbow, it might help. I've told myself I should stop buying smokes and quit, and put the money I spend on smokes into an account everyday and then buy myself something nice with it after a year. If you do the math at $10 per day, x 365 days, you have $3650 you would've spent anyway in your account. Perhaps a new(used) quad or motorcycle.

I've tried to quit, I actually did quit for a number of years but it's like your best friend dying, or your girlfriend you love leaving you. You think about it all the time, then you walk down the street and see other people kissing your girlfriend, and it hurts all over again...and it never really leaves you. "Oh I'll just kiss her one more time, it'll be okay, she's right there and wants it, just once.."

Oops.

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by Jim

I think that probably has to do with them fighting with the addiction still.

Yes, they are pissed off because they're kissing your girl and you can't! Imagine how you'd feel!!