10-02-2018, 11:28 AM
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#1 |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 36
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Idle air flow / Idle dropping down when under Power load
Hi everyone
I am looking to find out idle air flow ratio in injected version of Zongshen Rx3 2015 model. I think the throttle body on my bike is made by Continental as written on stepper motor valve. Over the years I was trying to establish good idle speed (with out good result) and turned the adjusting trotle screw in every location. I want to start with good air flow ratio and see if this will help. If the idle speed is to small the engine shut off if idle speed is to high it will trigger the red ( engine symbol ) light at dash board. At this moment the idle speed on my motorbike is in good range till the cooling fans switch on. When cooling fans gets switch On the idle speed is slowly dropping down till engine shut off. When I use hited grips the idle speed is also dropping down and engine shut off If cooling fans or hited grips get switch off before engine shut off, idle speed will return to normal. I am not sure if this problem is to do with air/ petrol ratio or this problem is do to some electric faults. Is the any sensor wich I should change? Recently I have made upgrade to alternator on my bike from originall one 200W to Zongshen 300W and new regulator. Valves has been set recently with full service change - air filter - fuel filter - Oil filter - oil - new Map sensor - spark plug - yuasa battery one year old charge up regular On old alternator it was the same problem. Any suggestions as this is very annoying problem Thanks Last edited by artur94; 11-07-2018 at 01:09 AM. |
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10-07-2018, 10:51 AM
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#5 |
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hell
Posts: 2,408
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Idle is set to 1550 rpm not adjustable and not needed I believe
I think you should clean stepper motor end and passage with soft wire brush and cotton wool What is the issue? I recently had to replace my stepper motor on my bike and in other bikes I’ve done several MAP sensors Clean n scrub the stepper passage and end of stepper and it should show open about 45 steps if I remember correctly 45-55 steps I’ll check up on that figure The system is largely the same as many Chinese decent brand bikes and I’ve worked with Benelli and Zongshen Jailing also |
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10-07-2018, 06:48 PM
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#6 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 365
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Quote:
http://www.rx3adventure.com/images/r..._schematic.jpg It should help you in identifying the necessary wires and connectors. The MAP sensor is not explicitly listed on the diagram, I believe it is called the "dumping sensor" on the diagram. It's at the bottom of the diagram, next to the ECU J2 connector. It would also be a good idea to examine the idle stepper motor and it's wiring as well, per NzBrakelathes suggestion. It's listed as the idle controlling valve on the diagram, at the top, fourth one over from the right. |
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10-07-2018, 09:55 PM
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#7 |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hell
Posts: 2,408
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I’ve had 3 bikes need MAP and they don’t rev correctly and major surge during throttle
MAP if not working makes engine run serious crappy Stepper motor cleaning is important I have a throttle body without sensors to see new versus old and the butterfly often needs backing off and closing more correctly What data are you getting at idle? What symptoms ? |
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10-07-2018, 10:04 PM
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#8 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hell
Posts: 2,408
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Quote:
Reset ecu switch on off 5 times (heat pump prime) wait 15 seconds then switch on, this erases old learnt data and sets TPS correctly and should show 0% value on live data under 1% is ok Check full throttle gets to 100% Ignore the other throttle value if less then 5. Second clean throttle body and adjust butterfly stopper so it’s fully closed and clean stepper passage and stepper motor nose - idle you should get 2.3Ms injector duration and oxygen sensor cycling up n down, stepper around 45/50 steps at around 1500-1600rpm Reset ecu once you played with throttle body. Any more data details you can show? If you’re in the UK Honley might have a spare sensor as I sold some to them or I can supply. Kinda need to see info rather then a description Hope this helps you to see n learn a bit more |
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10-10-2018, 01:45 AM
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 36
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Thank You gays for all you suggestions.
Last night I have un plug the IAC stepper motor and the idling speed it was unstable when engine was cold (to slow). So the IAC somehow works. Some time ago I have clean all throttle body and replace all O rings and this didn’t help. My bike is runs good in all the other time, ( so the MAP sensor do some work to). The problem is only when idling and under the power load. At this moment I don’t have working software to connect to my bike. I have the red China cable but can’t make work with PCHUD. Any suggestion what software to bay and where? NzBrakelathes – so the Throttle butterfly valve should be fully close ( max 1% open), and all needed air should go thru IAC when idle? So what’s the process to set this butterfly valve to 1% ? I know about the trick ( 5 x on and 5 x off) after this only the Idle speed is OK even under the power load, but after some miles is back to the same issue ( idle speed dropping down when under the power load ) So can you help me to porches the correct software for this bike pleas. I do not plan to do remap in the ECU but maybe small changes with plenty of records before. Thanks Last edited by artur94; 10-10-2018 at 02:19 AM. |
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10-13-2018, 07:18 PM
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#10 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hell
Posts: 2,408
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Quote:
clean and clean again the IAC valve tip and passage with cotton wool or very fine soft wire brush or tooth brush Basically yes the air should only go thru IAC/stepper motor passage not via main throttle area The Software you MUST set the COM port correctly in Device manager to the USB you are using, gets complex to explain and the software only works on 32 bit system like XP or Vista or Win 7, there is a thread about it and this will take a lot of struggling maybe for people to manage |
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10-20-2018, 09:31 AM
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 36
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After all I made the PCHUD working.
I have clean throttle body again with appropriate cleaner spray, and moved back the throttle butterfly so it is fully close. After restarting Ecu I have plug in and tested with PCHUD Idling when Cold with Power Load engine working fine Hot with Power Load engine working fine All is changed after first ride and idle speed is dropping down after increased Power consumption, sometimes idle speed cannot be maintain at all. - idle injector duration (“you should get 2.3Ms”) on my moto is around 3.0 Ms - oxygen sensor cycling (“ up n down”) not sure where to check this -stepper around (“45/50 steps”) on my moto it is around 30/35 at around 1500-1600rpm The stepper motor it is increases steps when engine is slowing down, (when under Power load) but this is not helping to maintain correct idling speed and engine is switching off Bellow photos of PCHUD Photo 1. Cold engine after night Photo 2. Hot engine Photo 3. After ride Photo 4. After ride- When cooling fans switch ON and idle speed is dropping down Any suggestions??? Thanks Last edited by artur94; 10-20-2018 at 10:36 AM. |
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10-20-2018, 10:53 AM
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#12 | |
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 365
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Quote:
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10-20-2018, 07:58 PM
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 36
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Low Voltage is result of Cooling fans Power consumption and Idling speed to Low.
The alternator has been changed for new one (18 pole) together with regulator. When the was before old (12 pole) alternator it was doing the same. Idle speed is slowing down when increased power consumption by cooling fans or by hitter grips, so there is no problem with cooling fans cables. I have check the Amperes taken close by the power regulator on +DC cable, using ( UNI-T UT204A Clamp Multimeter: - Engine equipment only : 3A - Plus All Lights: 6A - Plus Fog lights : 7,5A - Plus Cooling Fans: 9,5A - Plus Hitter grips : 13A When Check Separately: Cooling fans 2A Hitter grips 3,5A Fog Lights 1A If the Power consumption is 16 Amperes in total so calculating; 16 Amperes times 13 Volts equals 208 Watts ( 16A x 13V=208W ) This 18 Pole alternator should give 300Watts claims on CSC website After using the PCHUD again I have find out that by the signee “ CLOSD LOOP ACTIVE 1” blue square has light up and only in this time “close loop active” the engine is playing up. Also when “Close loop active” O2 Voltage (CYL1) is going up and down from 523.13mV to 1014.77mV So I am not sure if this is O2 sensor or Maybe Throttle body or ECU not set correctly in the factory by 2015 or maybe 2014 when produced this bike Thank You |
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10-20-2018, 09:22 PM
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#14 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hell
Posts: 2,408
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Quote:
Closed loop in correct below 6000 RPM meaning it uses the sensors to see what the engine is doing. 18 pole Stator is 350ish Watts so yeah a real 300W is correct. What is the stepper motor count? Seems you got the PCHUD working after mucking with it? |
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10-20-2018, 09:35 PM
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#15 | |
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Hell
Posts: 2,408
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Quote:
What is the battery charge voltage at idle? Stepper motor what is the step count? what is the actual RPM and what is the RPM and correction? Did you clean stepper motor end and passage? Did you reset ECU after you correctly set the throttle butterfly? What are the readings for the TPS? |
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Linear Mode
