New 2018 Hawk Prep - Page 3

Redbookaudio · 07-31-2018, 06:34 PM

ChrisWNY,
Thanks for pointing me to MeganDans video. That seems simple enough!

kirkallen143 · 08-04-2018, 10:07 AM

Well the story continues...

Got the new shock in, 295mm long and has a Schrader valve this time, ALL RIGHT! So, let's go and set the preload on the spring. Put the top of shock and tighten it in the vise, get the spanner wrench and proceed to adjust the nut and... WTF?!! The whole rest of the shock assembly is turning while I am trying to adjust the nut. I think to myself,"GREAT...another quality control issue that china forgot about, and now I have another broken shock." Come to find out, the head/top unit of this shock threads onto the main body section where the preload nut adjusts. I have only delt with shocks milled as one piece unit before. It has one o-ring (maybe 1/8" thick) that seals it up, inside of the head/top unit.

My question is, how many psi of nitrogen should I tell them to add when I get this shock filled? Will it hold 150psi with only one o-ring to seal it? That's the norm or max usually that I hear for shocks. I guess you want at least 100psi? Might start there...hell I'll ask the guys at the Honda shop and see what they think. I'll keep ya updated...

Kirk

pete · 08-04-2018, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirkallen143

Well the story continues...

Got the new shock in, 295mm long and has a Schrader valve this time, ALL RIGHT! So, let's go and set the preload on the spring. Put the top of shock and tighten it in the vise, get the spanner wrench and proceed to adjust the nut and... WTF?!! The whole rest of the shock assembly is turning while I am trying to adjust the nut. I think to myself,"GREAT...another quality control issue that china forgot about, and now I have another broken shock." Come to find out, the head/top unit of this shock threads onto the main body section where the preload nut adjusts. I have only delt with shocks milled as one piece unit before. It has one o-ring (maybe 1/8" thick) that seals it up, inside of the head/top unit.

My question is, how many psi of nitrogen should I tell them to add when I get this shock filled? Will it hold 150psi with only one o-ring to seal it? That's the norm or max usually that I hear for shocks. I guess you want at least 100psi? Might start there...hell I'll ask the guys at the Honda shop and see what they think. I'll keep ya updated...

Kirk

you are right...140/150psi is normal....
one 3mm O-ring will hold the pressure..

.

kirkallen143 · 08-05-2018, 03:51 AM

Thanks Pete, much appreciative.

Got shock filled, $31.00 later and 150psi. Having problems keeping bushings in now, seems the o-rings that keep out the dirt are a tad too thick to let them sit right. Yeah, no matter how much grease I put on them they keep falling out when trying to install shock. Maybe my next project is make the sub frame removable, hum, that would be nice? Gonna run to the hardware store tomorrow and find some smaller o-rings, that ought to cure it. Guys, I'll get more than 80km on this bike before you know it...hopefully it won't break me first (money-wise). It's fun though...

Kirk

kirkallen143 · 08-06-2018, 11:05 AM

On to the shock, bushings fit like a dream with the smaller thickness o-rings. Went to a 13/16" x 11/16" x 1/16" size, and packed them with grease. Ended up two clicks back from the most slowest setting on the shock adjuster. The bad thing now, front is softer than the rear. My goal is, you want to try for a balanced suspension front and rear. That's where I can push down on the bike's suspension and both front/rear react the same. I probably have to go with 20W fork oil in the front to slow down the dampening/rebound some, I have 15W in there now. We'll play with it and get it dialed in just right.

Kirk

kirkallen143 · 08-18-2018, 08:02 PM

Well, added more fork oil to the forks today, only about 25-30ml. This helped the bottoming, and I am now at 140mm (5.5") oil height, fork fully compressed and spring out. Only had 20W Bel-ray, so used that. The next fork oil change I will use 20W instead of 15W (what's in there now). Front and rear suspension are pretty close to the same now...maybe.

While I was in there, I greased the front stem bearings...all I know is the china-man who greased those bearings needs bigger fingers! Not much grease at all, only a little dab.

Also, I drilled another two vent holes for the gas cap. Popped that black plastic cap off and drilled right up through the casting on both sides in between the locking mechanism. I can blow into that bottom portion now and hear air come out the cap's edges.

Gave the battery a little trickle charge and cleaned some more corrosion from the neg(-) terminal. I'll end up getting a sealed battery next time, once this one goes out.

And, by the way, those little rubber grommets that hold the side panels on, I found better ones from Honda. They are off a 2009 Honda Rancher, much better rubber than the Chinese stuff on these bikes. OEM part number 86551-MA6-000, they are about $3.00ea. at RockyMountainATVMC.com

Kirk

kirkallen143 · 08-19-2018, 06:03 PM

Give a little update...the more oil in the forks worked out great! No more bottoming, plush ride, and the front and rear suspension are really close. The rear being just a tad bit firmer.
I'm up to 145km on the OD as of today, and the engine has never run better. Had it cruising up to 60mph, but around 50mph for me is the sweet spot in 5th gear with the 15/40 sprocket combo. Up inclines it slows a little with a steady throttle, but give it more and it just keeps on heading up to the top.
Another thing I did was add more holes to the baffle plates inside the muffler (12 total now) and used a 5/16" extended drill bit this time. Nice mellow, deep, throaty sound and not obnoxiously loud, and it's still quiet just puttin' around.
With the hotter weather outside, I had to close the fuel mixture screw about a 1/4 of a turn to lean it out. You could smell it was a little rich running at 1/8-1/4 throttle, much better now.
Had a rattle that I noticed while riding, come to find out it was the horn's set screw on the back of it coming loose. I believe its there to adjust how loud you want it, don't know? It screws into the back and only has one nut to hold that to the horn bracket. Added some thread locker on there and we're good to go.
Had to adjust the chain to, still stock one. That's about it...holler at y'all later.

Kirk

ChrisWNY · 08-19-2018, 08:50 PM

@kirk - can you provide the link to the 300mm rear shock you ordered? Where did you end up getting the nitrogen charge for it? Does your Hawk sit lower due to the 300mm size (I remember the stock rear shock measuring around 320mm or so from eyelet to eyelet).

I am considering a new rear shock as well because the stock rear shock seems a bit soft (now that I've changed my fork oil to 20W, added 200mL). Would be nice to have one that doesn't sag as much and dampens more so than what came with the Hawk. I have a guy at YSS who can custom build a rear shock for the Hawk but that'll run $275 or so. If I can nab one that works for under $100 I'd rather go that route. Thanks!

kirkallen143 · 08-20-2018, 10:13 AM

Chris, here ya go...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/295mm-12mm-...ty!77868!US!-1

Make sure you ask the seller if it has the Schrader valve. First one did not when I bought it, even though it showed it on the pics.
Got the shock filled w/ nitrogen at any local motorcycle shop/dealer.
I can't flat foot it like with the 280mm shock, but I can still touch the ground with this 295mm one.

Kirk

ChrisWNY · 08-20-2018, 10:19 AM

Presuming it needs some spacers once mounted since the upper/lower bushings are quite a bit narrower than the stock rear shock. I'm surprised the Hawk sits that high with a 295mm shock...then again the stock rear shock sags quite a bit probably because there's little to no gas in it to dampen or stiffen it. Thanks for the link!

** Update: contacted the seller for that eBay page and he stated that they no longer sell those rear shocks with Schrader valves.

ChrisWNY · 08-21-2018, 08:24 AM

I contacted the seller for this particular rear shock and got a confirmation that it does come with a Schrader valve, for those who might be interested in upgrading their rear shock:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1200LBS-DNM...53.m2749.l2649

@Kirk - do you have a recommendation on spacer sizes to use on the upper and lower bushings?

kirkallen143 · 08-21-2018, 11:16 AM

Chris, I used some 3/8" washers for the spacers to take the slack up. It only took 7ea. for the top and the bottom. If I remember right, 3 for the right side and 4 on the left because of the air filter box.

Kirk

Had to edit this: the bottom mount is not as wide, so it took 3 washers for the left side and 2 for the right. Oh, and to help inserting the washers on the sides of the shock mount, I ended up welding them together. You can duct tape them or glue them together, either way to hold'em in one piece...makes it easier.

ChrisWNY · 08-25-2018, 10:37 AM

Received the rear shock in the mail yesterday. Definitely has the schrader valve and has gas in it. Going to bring it to my local motorcycle shop to have it topped off with 150 psi of Nitrogen.

@kirk - was there any gas in the shock you received from eBay or was it empty? I also adjusted the shock 2 clicks up from the slowest setting (there are F and S markings on the shock...presuming "S" is the slower, higher dampening setting on the shock). How many wrench turns did you go up for preload?

ChrisWNY · 08-25-2018, 12:30 PM

Had the shock charged, 150psi Nitrogen, $10. The guy at the shop mentioned something about a floating piston, etc. He said the shock actually looks well-built, has quality seals on it, and is rebuildable if needed. He was concerned it may be too stiff but said no way to be certain until the shock is installed on the Hawk.

kirkallen143 · 08-26-2018, 03:25 PM

Chris, if I were you try it with no preload. I am 225-230lbs, have a bunch of tools, a mini-shovel, and a machete on the back (maybe an extra 10lbs), and the shock handles well, but is a little too stiff.

I preloaded the spring with about a 1/4" - 3/8" of thread showing, but I think this spring being stiff as it is, that I may not need any preload. I have yet to measure the sag at the rear with this new shock.

No, my shock had no nitrogen in it when received, the top half of the shock/cap was loose when I got it.

Kirk

07-31-2018, 06:34 PM	#31
Redbookaudio Join Date: Jun 2018 Posts: 40	ChrisWNY, Thanks for pointing me to MeganDans video. That seems simple enough! __________________ Hawk 250
	1

08-19-2018, 08:50 PM	#38
ChrisWNY Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 212	@kirk - can you provide the link to the 300mm rear shock you ordered? Where did you end up getting the nitrogen charge for it? Does your Hawk sit lower due to the 300mm size (I remember the stock rear shock measuring around 320mm or so from eyelet to eyelet). I am considering a new rear shock as well because the stock rear shock seems a bit soft (now that I've changed my fork oil to 20W, added 200mL). Would be nice to have one that doesn't sag as much and dampens more so than what came with the Hawk. I have a guy at YSS who can custom build a rear shock for the Hawk but that'll run $275 or so. If I can nab one that works for under $100 I'd rather go that route. Thanks! __________________ 2018 RPS Hawk 250cc Mods so far: 1. Mikuni VM26 Carburetor w/#115 main jet 2. 17T/45T JT sprockets 3. JT 428 X-ring chain 4. Air box mod 5. Hawk Digital Cluster 6. Aftermarket IMS shift lever 7. Performance Aftermarket Exhaust 8. 295mm Nitrogen Gas Monoshock, 20W oil front forks
	0

08-20-2018, 10:19 AM	#40
ChrisWNY Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 212	Presuming it needs some spacers once mounted since the upper/lower bushings are quite a bit narrower than the stock rear shock. I'm surprised the Hawk sits that high with a 295mm shock...then again the stock rear shock sags quite a bit probably because there's little to no gas in it to dampen or stiffen it. Thanks for the link! Update: contacted the seller for that eBay page and he stated that they no longer sell those rear shocks with Schrader valves. __________________ 2018 RPS Hawk 250cc** Mods so far: 1. Mikuni VM26 Carburetor w/#115 main jet 2. 17T/45T JT sprockets 3. JT 428 X-ring chain 4. Air box mod 5. Hawk Digital Cluster 6. Aftermarket IMS shift lever 7. Performance Aftermarket Exhaust 8. 295mm Nitrogen Gas Monoshock, 20W oil front forks Last edited by ChrisWNY; 08-20-2018 at 03:03 PM.
	0

08-21-2018, 08:24 AM	#41
ChrisWNY Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 212	I contacted the seller for this particular rear shock and got a confirmation that it does come with a Schrader valve, for those who might be interested in upgrading their rear shock: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1200LBS-DNM...53.m2749.l2649 @Kirk - do you have a recommendation on spacer sizes to use on the upper and lower bushings? __________________ 2018 RPS Hawk 250cc Mods so far: 1. Mikuni VM26 Carburetor w/#115 main jet 2. 17T/45T JT sprockets 3. JT 428 X-ring chain 4. Air box mod 5. Hawk Digital Cluster 6. Aftermarket IMS shift lever 7. Performance Aftermarket Exhaust 8. 295mm Nitrogen Gas Monoshock, 20W oil front forks
	0

08-25-2018, 12:30 PM	#44
ChrisWNY Join Date: Jul 2018 Posts: 212	Had the shock charged, 150psi Nitrogen, $10. The guy at the shop mentioned something about a floating piston, etc. He said the shock actually looks well-built, has quality seals on it, and is rebuildable if needed. He was concerned it may be too stiff but said no way to be certain until the shock is installed on the Hawk. __________________ 2018 RPS Hawk 250cc Mods so far: 1. Mikuni VM26 Carburetor w/#115 main jet 2. 17T/45T JT sprockets 3. JT 428 X-ring chain 4. Air box mod 5. Hawk Digital Cluster 6. Aftermarket IMS shift lever 7. Performance Aftermarket Exhaust 8. 295mm Nitrogen Gas Monoshock, 20W oil front forks
	0

08-04-2018, 10:07 AM	#32
kirkallen143 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 84	Well the story continues... Got the new shock in, 295mm long and has a Schrader valve this time, ALL RIGHT! So, let's go and set the preload on the spring. Put the top of shock and tighten it in the vise, get the spanner wrench and proceed to adjust the nut and... WTF?!! The whole rest of the shock assembly is turning while I am trying to adjust the nut. I think to myself,"GREAT...another quality control issue that china forgot about, and now I have another broken shock." Come to find out, the head/top unit of this shock threads onto the main body section where the preload nut adjusts. I have only delt with shocks milled as one piece unit before. It has one o-ring (maybe 1/8" thick) that seals it up, inside of the head/top unit. My question is, how many psi of nitrogen should I tell them to add when I get this shock filled? Will it hold 150psi with only one o-ring to seal it? That's the norm or max usually that I hear for shocks. I guess you want at least 100psi? Might start there...hell I'll ask the guys at the Honda shop and see what they think. I'll keep ya updated... Kirk
	0

08-05-2018, 03:51 AM	#34
kirkallen143 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 84	Thanks Pete, much appreciative. Got shock filled, $31.00 later and 150psi. Having problems keeping bushings in now, seems the o-rings that keep out the dirt are a tad too thick to let them sit right. Yeah, no matter how much grease I put on them they keep falling out when trying to install shock. Maybe my next project is make the sub frame removable, hum, that would be nice? Gonna run to the hardware store tomorrow and find some smaller o-rings, that ought to cure it. Guys, I'll get more than 80km on this bike before you know it...hopefully it won't break me first (money-wise). It's fun though... Kirk
	1

08-06-2018, 11:05 AM	#35
kirkallen143 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 84	On to the shock, bushings fit like a dream with the smaller thickness o-rings. Went to a 13/16" x 11/16" x 1/16" size, and packed them with grease. Ended up two clicks back from the most slowest setting on the shock adjuster. The bad thing now, front is softer than the rear. My goal is, you want to try for a balanced suspension front and rear. That's where I can push down on the bike's suspension and both front/rear react the same. I probably have to go with 20W fork oil in the front to slow down the dampening/rebound some, I have 15W in there now. We'll play with it and get it dialed in just right. Kirk
	1

08-18-2018, 08:02 PM	#36
kirkallen143 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 84	Well, added more fork oil to the forks today, only about 25-30ml. This helped the bottoming, and I am now at 140mm (5.5") oil height, fork fully compressed and spring out. Only had 20W Bel-ray, so used that. The next fork oil change I will use 20W instead of 15W (what's in there now). Front and rear suspension are pretty close to the same now...maybe. While I was in there, I greased the front stem bearings...all I know is the china-man who greased those bearings needs bigger fingers! Not much grease at all, only a little dab. Also, I drilled another two vent holes for the gas cap. Popped that black plastic cap off and drilled right up through the casting on both sides in between the locking mechanism. I can blow into that bottom portion now and hear air come out the cap's edges. Gave the battery a little trickle charge and cleaned some more corrosion from the neg(-) terminal. I'll end up getting a sealed battery next time, once this one goes out. And, by the way, those little rubber grommets that hold the side panels on, I found better ones from Honda. They are off a 2009 Honda Rancher, much better rubber than the Chinese stuff on these bikes. OEM part number 86551-MA6-000, they are about $3.00ea. at RockyMountainATVMC.com Kirk
	0

08-19-2018, 06:03 PM	#37
kirkallen143 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 84	Give a little update...the more oil in the forks worked out great! No more bottoming, plush ride, and the front and rear suspension are really close. The rear being just a tad bit firmer. I'm up to 145km on the OD as of today, and the engine has never run better. Had it cruising up to 60mph, but around 50mph for me is the sweet spot in 5th gear with the 15/40 sprocket combo. Up inclines it slows a little with a steady throttle, but give it more and it just keeps on heading up to the top. Another thing I did was add more holes to the baffle plates inside the muffler (12 total now) and used a 5/16" extended drill bit this time. Nice mellow, deep, throaty sound and not obnoxiously loud, and it's still quiet just puttin' around. With the hotter weather outside, I had to close the fuel mixture screw about a 1/4 of a turn to lean it out. You could smell it was a little rich running at 1/8-1/4 throttle, much better now. Had a rattle that I noticed while riding, come to find out it was the horn's set screw on the back of it coming loose. I believe its there to adjust how loud you want it, don't know? It screws into the back and only has one nut to hold that to the horn bracket. Added some thread locker on there and we're good to go. Had to adjust the chain to, still stock one. That's about it...holler at y'all later. Kirk
	0

08-20-2018, 10:13 AM	#39
kirkallen143 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 84	Chris, here ya go... https://www.ebay.com/itm/295mm-12mm-...ty!77868!US!-1 Make sure you ask the seller if it has the Schrader valve. First one did not when I bought it, even though it showed it on the pics. Got the shock filled w/ nitrogen at any local motorcycle shop/dealer. I can't flat foot it like with the 280mm shock, but I can still touch the ground with this 295mm one. Kirk
	2

08-21-2018, 11:16 AM	#42
kirkallen143 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 84	Chris, I used some 3/8" washers for the spacers to take the slack up. It only took 7ea. for the top and the bottom. If I remember right, 3 for the right side and 4 on the left because of the air filter box. Kirk Had to edit this: the bottom mount is not as wide, so it took 3 washers for the left side and 2 for the right. Oh, and to help inserting the washers on the sides of the shock mount, I ended up welding them together. You can duct tape them or glue them together, either way to hold'em in one piece...makes it easier.
	1

08-26-2018, 03:25 PM	#45
kirkallen143 Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 84	Chris, if I were you try it with no preload. I am 225-230lbs, have a bunch of tools, a mini-shovel, and a machete on the back (maybe an extra 10lbs), and the shock handles well, but is a little too stiff. I preloaded the spring with about a 1/4" - 3/8" of thread showing, but I think this spring being stiff as it is, that I may not need any preload. I have yet to measure the sag at the rear with this new shock. No, my shock had no nitrogen in it when received, the top half of the shock/cap was loose when I got it. Kirk
	1