New Hawk on the way! Prep and Mod ?'s

[Skyd]

Hey guys,


So I ordered myself a Hawk the other night....Red, unless they're out and then it'll be Black. I don't have shipping confirmation yet so not sure exactly when it'll be here but I'm sure it'll be a week or two. So in the meantime I'm wanting to have a good game plan so I can be ready to ride once the weather finally turns here in Northern NH.


Assembly is straight forward, I'm not too concerned about that and I'm gonna get some Blue loctite and go over this thing as thoroughly as possible. Is there a list of known problem areas here? Or just be vigilant and methodical?


So that brings me to Mods and/or upgrades before I even hit the starter button.


These are the things I KNOW I'm going to do:


1. Change the fork oil for some 15W 210ml per tube.
2. Drain the crap oil and put in some Rotella T4 15w40 (same thing I ran in my Suzuki GS850G with great luck...they love the extra zinc I hear.
3. Flush the brake fluid with new synthetic DOT4 fluid
4. Airbox mod



Ok now, here's where I start to have questions. I want to re-gear right out of the gate because I know I'll need to. I think probably I should do both sprockets and the chain all at once. I want good off road performance while still being able to cruise at 50mph for a 5 mile stretch without redlining. Mostly I'll be on trails and secondary road riding under 45mph, but I'd like to ride to work and that's 50-55 for like 6 or 7 miles.


SO - I was thinking 16/45t sprockets with a 130 link chain? I'll probably stick with a standard chain this time and maybe upgrade to O-ring or X-ring down the line...trying to keep the budget under control here.


So thoughts on the gearing and what's a decent budget chain, I don't want junk but don't need a $100 Renthal either.


I'm planning to have jets on hand for the stock carb as well and expect to have to change the main jet. That being said.....we come to another question. The exhaust. Is this worth doing right off the bat? I see another post with a $100 bolt on exhaust available on Amazon and that's tempting. I could decat, but that requires cutting and welding right? I don't weld, and if I replace the header pipe I'm more than half way to the whole dang thing anyway.


Ok, I dont' wanna make this too long...I tend to get wordy. So I'll save any further questions for another post.


SO - in closing....if you were in my shoes what would be your must do items before twisting the grip??


PS - for reference I'm 6'4" 220lbs, so suspension is for sure a possible issue.

[idle_purr]

I made a checklist if you'd like to check it out.

Hawk 250 Assembly, Adjustments, & Maintenance Checklist

Also Megadan's Hawk 250 Resource Guide

These guides are not the gospel, but should be very helpful. Everyone does their build a little differently.

Congrats on the bike!

[Skyd]

Thanks! Printed out your checklist and ya I've read over Megadan's resource also - alot of work put into this stuff and us new owner's appreciate it!! I'm no stranger to motorcycles but this is my first Chinese bike so it's good to have input from those that have been there.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Skyd

Ok now, here's where I start to have questions. I want to re-gear right out of the gate because I know I'll need to. I think probably I should do both sprockets and the chain all at once. I want good off road performance while still being able to cruise at 50mph for a 5 mile stretch without redlining. Mostly I'll be on trails and secondary road riding under 45mph, but I'd like to ride to work and that's 50-55 for like 6 or 7 miles.


SO - I was thinking 16/45t sprockets with a 130 link chain?


So thoughts on the gearing and what's a decent budget chain, I don't want junk but don't need a $100 Renthal either.

I think a 16 front and a 45 rear is a good combo, that is around a 2.80 ratio which is just a bit shorter than the 17/45 myself and other like to run. A few TT250 guys like a similar ratio on their bikes with a 17 front and 48 or 49 rear, so I think it would be a good combo for what you are after.

As far as chains go, if I were after a good quality standard chain. RK Racing or DID would be my go to without question. Here is a 130 link 428 RK Racing Heavy duty standard chain for basically 22 bucks. https://www.amazon.com/RK-Racing-Cha...5877473&sr=8-2

I have heard a few Hawk guys give these NICHE chains good reviews if you were wanting an X ring style chain. Price isn't too bad at $53 bucks either. https://www.amazon.com/NICHE-X-Ring-...5877617&sr=8-5

The exhaust. Is this worth doing right off the bat? I see another post with a $100 bolt on exhaust available on Amazon and that's tempting. I could decat, but that requires cutting and welding right? I don't weld, and if I replace the header pipe I'm more than half way to the whole dang thing anyway.

I believe it is worth doing the exhaust right off the bat. The catalyst is by far the single biggest restriction on the Hawks.

If you want cheap and simple, then decatting the stock system is as easy as it gets. Most exhaust shops could weld it up for you if needed. Doing it this way is the best compromise between improved performance and noise. The stock muffler is great for keeping the noise down. The aftermarket systems are great for airflow, but can be a bit on the loud side for some peoples tastes.

Now, if you do want to go the aftermarket route, skip the amazon and ebay systems and get this guy. https://carcustomonline.com/direct-b...al-sport-bike/

It has the right flange on it for the CG engines, so there is no mods needed to make it work. They even sell a spark arrestor for it, and they do send a jet kit with it. The pilot jet won't work (and is the same size as the stock Hawk one anyway), but the main jets will work with the stock carb and are the right size for a Hawk with an exhaust (112 or 115 (go 115)). It also comes with a style of idle mixture screw that is actually quite handy as it sticks out the bottom of the carb just enough to put a piece of fuel hose on it, which really helps with idle mixture adjustments with the bike running (I use this trick on my PZ30B).

SO - in closing....if you were in my shoes what would be your must do items before twisting the grip??


PS - for reference I'm 6'4" 220lbs, so suspension is for sure a possible issue.

Not including proper assembly and fluid stuff (fork oil etc) I would say mainly sprocket(s) and properly jetting the stock carb at a minimum.

If I were going to do the ultimate minimalist Hawk improvement on a budget list, I would say exhaust (take your pick), PZ30B pumper carb with a quick turn throttle, airbox mod, TT250/Single layer head gasket (a few tenths of extra compression), and a 4 degree timing key. All of that costs less than or right around 200 bucks, and short of head porting and a cam will deliver the biggest bang for the buck experience. Obviously combined with whatever sprocket setup I desired.

[Skyd]

Megadan, thanks for the reply and I've already changed my mind on what to do thanks to you, haha.

Originally Posted by Megadan

I think a 16 front and a 45 rear is a good combo, that is around a 2.80 ratio which is just a bit shorter than the 17/45 myself and other like to run. A few TT250 guys like a similar ratio on their bikes with a 17 front and 48 or 49 rear, so I think it would be a good combo for what you are after.

Ok good to know, here's a question if you don't mind.....one thought I had about going 16t in the front is I can drop down or up a tooth without touching the rear sprocket if I want a little more top end or a little better off road performance. The question is.....can I use a 130 link chain with all 3 options, and if not am I better going with a 128 link chain for the 16/45 combo?

If I were going to do the ultimate minimalist Hawk improvement on a budget list, I would say exhaust (take your pick), PZ30B pumper carb with a quick turn throttle, airbox mod, TT250/Single layer head gasket (a few tenths of extra compression), and a 4 degree timing key. All of that costs less than or right around 200 bucks, and short of head porting and a cam will deliver the biggest bang for the buck experience. Obviously combined with whatever sprocket setup I desired.

OK! You've peaked my interest here because when I rebuilt my DRZ engine years ago I upped my compression and it added some pony power according to my seat of the pants dyno. So just a stock TT250 head gasket and go? That's easy enough. I've never done timing keys, is there a post on here that will point me in the right direction? Also I think I may keep the stock muffler and just change out the head pipe OR decat. I have access to a wire feed welder and I could probably booger it together or if my neighbor is free he could do it (builds local race cars).

Also I have a Mikuni VM26 clone in my wishlist but I'll take a look at the pumper carb you're talking about if it's a better option. I can deal with $200, and then I'll have a little room for some handguards and a few other small nice to have items.

[Skyd]

OK so I'm having trouble deciphering the proper carb, mainly due to the "pumper" and "quick throttle" references. I can find PZ30 carbs easy enough such as this one - https://www.amazon.com/KEONG-Carbure...%2C171&sr=8-20

Anyone have a link for exactly what I need? Also are these Keihin clones, meaning i need Keihin style jets, not mikuni jets correct?

[JerryHawk250]

You're looking for the PZ30b carb which is a pumper carb. It will use the Keihin style jets. https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-PZ...4&sr=8-32&th=1

[Deckard_Cain]

Originally Posted by Skyd

OK so I'm having trouble deciphering the proper carb, mainly due to the "pumper" and "quick throttle" references. I can find PZ30 carbs easy enough such as this one - https://www.amazon.com/KEONG-Carbure...%2C171&sr=8-20

Anyone have a link for exactly what I need? Also are these Keihin clones, meaning i need Keihin style jets, not mikuni jets correct?

https://www.chinariders.net/showthre...ht=pz30+pumper

[Skyd]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

You're looking for the PZ30b carb which is a pumper carb. It will use the Keihin style jets. https://www.amazon.com/Carburetor-PZ...4&sr=8-32&th=1

EDIT (because I answered my own question) - also, seems like if I want one it's gonna come slow boat from china. I followed the link from the below thread to aliexpress that has the whole kit for $43.....any reason not to do that? It'll be mid april til it gets here but I'll just plan for that to be the final thing I button up on the bike, or I'll run it stock a little bit first to get base line performance on my butt dyno.

Originally Posted by Deckard_Cain

https://www.chinariders.net/showthre...ht=pz30+pumper

Awesome, thanks for the link....that'll come in handy for sure.

[Skyd]

Originally Posted by Megadan

If I were going to do the ultimate minimalist Hawk improvement on a budget list, I would say exhaust (take your pick), PZ30B pumper carb with a quick turn throttle, airbox mod, TT250/Single layer head gasket (a few tenths of extra compression), and a 4 degree timing key. All of that costs less than or right around 200 bucks, and short of head porting and a cam will deliver the biggest bang for the buck experience. Obviously combined with whatever sprocket setup I desired.

Here's another question and maybe I should start a new thread as this one's going in multiple directions....BUT - can I do all of this before engine break in? I've actually never owned new before....I did an engine break in on my DRZ after rebuilding with increased compression, but I'm not keen on what these china clones can handle. I would think the small compression increase and timing advance would make no difference but I'm over here double guessing myself

[China Rider 27]

The PZ30 and PZ30B carburetors have used different pilot jets. One style common, the other not so and must be had from China. Sometimes hard to tell if at all what particular jet comes with the carb you purchased until you get it. Not having the proper pilot jet can create issues running some of the mods as it will create a lean condition. See above post with link to PZ30b does the best job of explaining the jet problem.

[Megadan]

This particular unit uses Keihin Main and Pilot jets.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Mains are the normal 99101-393. Pilots are N424-21

I am not promoting this particular throttle, but this is the style that many of the kits come with. You can often find them sold individually on ebay for decent prices.
https://www.amazon.com/YOPOTIKA-Thro...918815&sr=8-56

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Skyd

The question is.....can I use a 130 link chain with all 3 options, and if not am I better going with a 128 link chain for the 16/45 combo?

A 130 link chain should work alright. Worst case scenario you can always shorten the chain from 130 to 128 if you find it is just a hair too long.

So just a stock TT250 head gasket and go? That's easy enough. I've never done timing keys, is there a post on here that will point me in the right direction?

Yep, just the head gasket and go. The single layer steel gaskets are thinner than their fiber counterparts, so it makes for a small bump in compression. Nothing spectacular, but hey it all adds up.

As far as the keys go, there has been a few threads recently, and I do believe JerryHawk250 here has a video on it if I am not mistaken. Hopefully somebody else will chime in with more as I don't have a whole lot of time to go digging around today.

Also I have a Mikuni VM26 clone in my wishlist but I'll take a look at the pumper carb you're talking about if it's a better option. I can deal with $200, and then I'll have a little room for some handguards and a few other small nice to have items.

Understand that I state the PZ30B as a true upgrade simply due to it having the accelerator pump. The VM26 doesn't offer any benefit other than being really easy to dial the tune in with. The PZ30B, having the accelerator pump, offers an improvement to the way the bike rides, but does have an extra step in setup. Getting it dialed in and running with the jets is no different than the VM26, but there is just less info out there to more or less plug and play immediately.

Now, main jet sizes will translate across, so the only thing that will require a little extra effort is the pilot jet, but even there the size range is generally going to be around a 38 to a 40 (give or take obviously).

[Skyd]

Megadan - thanks again for the good information. I gathered the PZ30B with the pump would be an actual improvement for not much more than the Mikuni clone so I'm for sure gonna do it....the link you shared has a US supplier and takes Keihin jets so I'm headed to order it right MEOW.

The aliexpress kit is nice with the grips and all that jazz but I'd rather choose my own anyway and it won't add much to the cost with the advantage of not having to wait for sea turtle delivery.

I'll dig around for the timing threads, no worries.

[DohcBikes]

The biggest advantage of Mikuni carbs is that they have tapered jets that flow more consistently. That is one reason why they are easier to tune.