Wrenching Nightmares-Long Rant

[2LZ]

How come every time I have a wrenching nightmare, it's on a HONDA!? I really hate working on Honda's.......... and I'm not talking about our little Chonda's we have here. They're super simple, and a very old design.

That dang company never fails to take a simple design and over-complicate it. They're like the Mercedes Benz of Japanese bikes. Like when MBZ gave us windshield wipers for our headlights. We see them everywhere now, right?.....NOT!

My buddy is a big Honda guy. He landed a 1985 V65 Sabre in excellent condition, but of course lots of the rubber turned to crap, just by age. This included fork seals. He's a decent mechanic but never goes in very deep. That's where I come in. He asked me to rebuild his forks. "No problem" I said. "Drop them out and and deliver. I'll take it from there."

What a nightmare. It started with how they leaked all over the bed of my Ranger. I'm not talking about a seal leak. Apparently on these forks, there's a vent tube that runs between both forks (why?) and he removed it. Well, there's little holes in each fork tube and both of them pee'd everywhere, including UNDER my bed liner. We're off to a great start already.

In the shop yesterday, of course, the forks are completely different from each other (of course, it's a freaking Honda). One has the anti-dive valve so I figured I'd start with the hard one first. It all popped apart easy enough....but of course, unlike any other (non USD) forks, you don't put the seal in the slider, then insert leg. The seal comes out with the freaking leg! This means you have to run the new seal lip over a bunch of machined sections on the leg. Who the hell thought of this brilliant idea? Can you say "warranty work"?...but wait, that's not all!

Of course, you have to align the dampening rod at the bottom of the slider to bolt it in. This make you go into Stevie Wonder mode and do everything by feel. Meaning you have to reinsert spring and cap to try to put enough pressure on the dampening tube so it doesn't slip in the very-oily tube as you twist, trying to find the flat spot. Fortunately with enough twisting and pushing, I felt the magic "click" as it slipped into its pre-determined slot.

You think it's done? OH NO! Now you need the 3' long special Honda tool to be able to seat the seal down into the slider with the fork tube down it's throat! I checked my back pocket and of course, I don't have that special tool. I searched everywhere for a long pipe of the correct size. Next thing I know, I'm digging around in the shop, the garage, the shed and finally under the freaking house! Any luck? Nope. the seal is an odd size, of course.

So, a million and a half, very small "tappity's" at a time with the mentally agreed tool (a tire spoon) and I got the seal in flat and below the snap ring groove. Oh the snap ring!? WHY ON GOD'S GREEN EARTH DID HONDA USE A SNAP RING STRONG ENOUGH TO HOLD THE FREAKING SPACE SHUTTLE ON THE GROUND!? Holy Christ, what a nightmare. I SNAPPED my good snap ring pliers trying to remove those bastards! It's only holding in a fork seal! Not a bank vault! I ended up using the "two tiny screw drivers/one curved pick" method. I only bled three times, if you're wondering. After this, I tackled the anti-dive valve. That went fairly smoothly.

This is going on long enough, but I'll just say that the second fork (supposedly the easy one) was even more difficult, with all the dampening crap in it that the anti-dive fork didn't have. Plus, "PING!"...across the shop the top-out spring flew. I was like a carpet beetle with a flashlight, on my almost 65 year old hands and knees, looking under everything...to no avail. I ended up texting Mrs. 2LZ in the house and asked her to bring her UTD (Uterine Tracking Device. We men don't have one of these) to come out and help. Of course, she kicked in her UTD and found it in mere minutes. They do this to make you look like a fool, you know.

Long story long, the forks are done. They better not leak after all the abuse the new seals saw, simply by design. Let's just say I was a mess, my workbench is a mess, my clothing were soaked, my shop is hammered, and I can tell you first hand, old hydro fluid filled with metallic material, does not make good hair conditioner.

I really hate working on Honda's.

[cheesy]

Jeez, I thought I might have written this but I've never had the pleasure of working on Honda forks and I have a 45 year old Honda.

This kind of reminded me of dropping the starter on the DeSoto. Two freaking bolts...two, but without the special Chrysler wrenches, it takes two hours to drop the starter and another two to put it back in. Per the 1952 Flat Rate Manual, even with the special wrenches, it's 1.5 hrs each way.

[Darkrider]

That wasn't a vent tube that connected those forks. The VF bikes (Sabre, Magna, Interceptor) used air forks. That line was used to connect the two forks together and there should have been a schrader valve in the left side fork for this system. At least it was in the left fork in my Interceptor. Might be in the right side fork on the Sabre. either way there should have been one in one of the fork caps. As they are air forks...it likely explains that over powered snap ring you mentioned.

[2LZ]

There is a schrader and they are air forks. From my past experience, most like them with zero psi and use the schrader to vent out what may build up from foaming/activity.
I'm afraid to go out to the shop and see if there's a puddle under either of them.

[Darkrider]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

There is a schrader and they are air forks. From my past experience, most like them with zero psi and use the schrader to vent out what may build up from foaming/activity.
I'm afraid to go out to the shop and see if there's a puddle under either of them.

In the Hondas they function to add pressure to the forks and rear shock not to vent. If i remember right you usually ran about 5-6 psi in the forks and around 8-10 in the shock. Been years since i rode an Interceptor so I'm a lil fuzzy on the exact numbers. But in short they work more like air shocks on a car to aid with ride quality.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by Darkrider

In the Hondas they function to add pressure to the forks and rear shock not to vent. If i remember right you usually ran about 5-6 psi in the forks and around 8-10 in the shock. Been years since i rode an Interceptor so I'm a lil fuzzy on the exact numbers. But in short they work more like air shocks on a car to aid with ride quality.

Fortunately my buddy provided a factory manual with the forks. I first noticed when I popped off the dust seal, parts were missing. Come to find out, someone had been in there before. The manual actually tells you to remove and discard the foam seal and washer.

My buddy told me that the air joint wasn't sealed to the forks and was just sitting these, so apparently psi wasn't an issue. LOL! Odd thing is, my buddy bought it from the original owner and supposedly, only had it serviced at his Honda dealer. Speaking of PSI, "0-6". He's picking up the forks today and will bring the air joint so I can fit the proper sized o-rings and get it working right. Even if he runs "0 psi", it should be sealed.

[Thumper]

I bought a new 1979 GS850G. First year of the model. I sold my GS550E to buy it. Black with silver/blue double pin striping on the tank, side covers and tail piece. It was a beauty. There was a shrader valve on the top of one fork tube, and an equalizer between the two forks just above the lower triple clamp. The bike came with a light hand pump and a low pressure shrader test with a dial gauge. They recommended single digit pressures.

My KTM has air forks as well but no equalizer tube, and it came with a substantial pump. They recommend much higher pressures.

[Darkrider]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Fortunately my buddy provided a factory manual with the forks. I first noticed when I popped off the dust seal, parts were missing. Come to find out, someone had been in there before. The manual actually tells you to remove and discard the foam seal and washer.

My buddy told me that the air joint wasn't sealed to the forks and was just sitting these, so apparently psi wasn't an issue. LOL! Odd thing is, my buddy bought it from the original owner and supposedly, only had it serviced at his Honda dealer. Speaking of PSI, "0-6". He's picking up the forks today and will bring the air joint so I can fit the proper sized o-rings and get it working right. Even if he runs "0 psi", it should be sealed.

Like i said i was fuzzy on the numbers. I think i only aired up the shock on my Interceptor and left the forks alone. But that was more me trying different set ups to get what i felt right to me as the rider.

[david3921]

Oh yeah, the snap ring. I couldn't find a tool to remove/replace it. I made a tool out of 90 degree needle nose pliers I bought from Harbor Freight. I used a file to shape the tips to fit into the ring holes. It worked great, still have it, and have used it many times since.