What would you buy, ride & keep?

[PowerSlidz]

Hey - so I'm an oldie but goodie looking to get back into DSport. I prefer dirt also will commute. Im pretty impressed w/how ChinaBikes have improved and thinking a new one may be in my future.

A little about my riding style/preference. I prefer smooth engine/suspension and a comfy seat. I like power slide, power wheelies, jumping, tight woods/exploring. I love wrenching in my garage but not in the woods. I prefer to kick-start but appreciate the magic button. I'd like to keep about 65MPH w/out buzzing my hands/butt off. >40MPG would be nice too.

Looking to buy new and keep it. I see a lot of <$2K 250s. However I also see a lot of the more popular ones (Hawks) for sale in the forum which tells me many are looking for something else.

Going up the spectrum there's $2K gap B4 we get into the SSR/GPX Pro which seem more in-line with EU/JP offerings. But even these I see ppl upgrading/selling them which makes me question if they're really as good as ppl say.

Seems a lot of these 4T higher-performance bikes are based on the NC250 engine bat can't find much about it - how smooth, reliable, robust, maintenance intervals etc.

From what I higher-end SSRs thev real attention t detail/quality but aren't readily 'plate-able' Which brings me to GPX - the 2T 250 sounds ideal - smooth, handles like a dream yet but under powered and sans oil injection for 2021.5 It also doesn't seem to have a good 'hit' in the top end. IF they came out w/a 300 2T might be ideal.

The 4T 300 seems more desirable than the 4T 250 in it has more/wider power and the video's I've seen 'roosts' more like my style (wharp wharp wharp vs brrt brrt brrt if that makes sense...)

But for +2K are these really THAT much better for an old fart like me?

Curious to hear your thoughts...

[tknj99]

I think i also fall into that oldie but goodie category at 48 ive ridden since i was 13 yo starting out on a moped then on to a KX80 which is still some of the best riding ive ever done next to a slew of street bikes. The DS thing was new to me but i have quickly grown into how much fun it is to be able to do street riding without having to make a u-turn when the road turns to gravel/dirt.
In reading some of your requirements the Brozz would fit the bill for several with its counter-balanced engine, soft and supportive (memory foam i think) seat, great for riding on street and with a swap of the rear sprocket to a 42T will hold 65 all day long and top out at 75. Its also very easy to wrench on and very forgiving, worst case if something breaks the replacement is usually very inexpensive..
I wouldnt trust any of these bikes though for serious dirt and jumping , for that a trusty big 4 H/K/S/Y would better fit the bill.
But for $2k plus a couple hundred in extras listed in my sig, you get a great blended do-it-all bike. In fact after selling my ZX14R i was planning to buy this DS plus a cruiser with the proceeds and have since changed that plan to just stick with the Brozz as the one size fit for the riding i do.
Hope some of that helps.

[RedCrowRides]

Look into the new 249cc engined RXB 250, it has plenty of low end torque and the build quality at $2k is miles ahead of a Hawk , TBR7, etc and it offers fully adjustable suspension, etc among many other advantages , it is ideal if you are primarily interested in dirt performance and they offer the same Bike as an " L" Model with light kit .So it's a much stronger frame , good suspension and decent torque engine over the hawks, etc at half the cost of a GPX.


I love mine and plan to keep it , i did look at other machines like the GPX but i have found that at my somewhat advanced age despite me being an experienced dirt rider that my "roostin and jumpin" days are mostly behind me and the Orion can do all i can, and likely more .


By all means if you have the cash to burn get the GPX but if you are interested in something of higher quality and ability than the lower tier dual sports but not quite sure about 4 - 5k for a GPX, the Orion RXB 250 might just be it.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by RedCrowRides

By all means if you have the cash to burn get the GPX but if you are interested in something of higher quality and ability than the lower tier dual sports but not quite sure about 4 - 5k for a GPX, the Orion RXB 250 might just be it.

How is the comfort for commuting? I recall years back, people complaining about the Pitster Pro (now GPX I think) XTRs being very uncomfortable, and no seats that could replace them. They might have fixed that by now with them switching over to the GPX name, but is the RXB comfortable enough for commuting?

[Megadan]

The real issue with the market is that there really is no good inbetween bikes.

Most people sell the Hawks and other lower end bikes because they lack the power they were wanting/hoping to get. They aren't fully highway capable, so that limits their use for many people. The more expensive Pitster Pro/GPX bikes do have more powerful engines, but are built more like proper off road race bikes and aren't very good at being dual sports.

What myself and many others would really like to see is a hybrid of the Hawk style bikes and the GPX style bikes. Basically, take a Hawk/TT250 frame, fuel tank, seat but put the suspension and engine from a GPX on it.

Or, have GPX make their own version of the CRF250 and 450 L bikes with full sub frames, better seats, and larger fuel tanks. I don't see it happening anytime soon, unfortunately.

Honestly, if somebody put out a Hawk/TT250 bike with an NC250 engine, even if the suspension still wasn't all that great, I would consider buying it. Many people talk about not wanting to go 70+ on a Dual Sport, but where I live, it's really a necessity.

I keep holding my breath for somebody to make an NC450 powered street bike too.

[Wild Dog]

This is all about mindset, let's be honest, for the US Market anything below 500c isn't "highway worthy" Any 250 they sell it won't be good enough.

If i was a dealer and i had to come with a lineup for the US Market, this would be my pick.

Basic On/Off Road.
Crf230f Clone, same engine, same power output.


More "advanced" On/Off Road
Honda 250 DOHC engine clone, "PDS" style rear suspension.



"Highway worthy" Motorcycle 650cc



"Retro style" 2 cylinder 250cc.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

This is all about mindset, let's be honest, for the US Market anything below 500c isn't "highway worthy"

The problem with your thinking here is you only have one vision of what the U.S. is like.

Also, it should be clarified that "highway" is a loose term for different types. Interstate, US, State, and County.

You would have to be insane to try a 250 on the Interstate where I live. Speed limit of 75mph, most cars do at least 80. Even the best 250 single on the market would be pretty much maxed out. In this instance, you are right.

Most US and State Highways here have limits of 60-65mph (some US Highways are a little faster). A 250 is actually capable on these highways, although it is definitely the limit for some like our Hawks.

County highways are generally 45-60mph. Sometimes dirt, sometimes not. Any 250 is worthy here lol.

Lots of guys live in areas like mine. Very low population density outside of maybe one or two "big" cities. Lots and lots of U.S., State, and County highways that go for tens or even hundreds of miles with not much between other than the occasional "town" (very small). Once you leave these highways a lot of the time you end up on gravel and dirt roads immediately. Sometimes the term "road" is laughable.

I do agree that at least a 350-400+cc bike would be the better option, but show me a truly good dual sport bike in that displacement other than the CRF450L.

In the U.S., there really isn't much to choose from. The ADV Bikes in that size class are just road bikes with a lift kit, and usually a lot heavier.

[asheck]

Your riding is similar to mine, and it's the jumping that throws a wrench into it. I just have not been overly impressed with the suspension on the chinese bikes. I sat on the SSr300 and could just feel that it wasn't smooth like the jap stuff. 5000 out the door, only 500 less then a KLX300, just doesn't seem like a good value. The GPX T4 was a very serious consideration, but I just couldn't pull the trigger. For me, anything more expensive then the Orion and I'd have to buy a used Jap bike. I would like to try one of those , though.
With that said, for the money I don't regret the chinese bikes I have, and they keep getting better.

I'm also very interested to check out the Kayo stuff. There's a couple local big dealers that are going to stock them and they seem to be very similar to the GPX stuff. If you can sit on one might make your decision easier.

BTW my answer to the magic bike is I just 351 big bored my klx250 and it's getting gold valves and new springs front and rear. I'll have less in that than I could have bought a new SSR.

[ChopperCharles]

The SSR XF250 has the Suzuki TU250 motor in it. Completely bullet-proof motor, lots of torque and speed holding capability. Suitable for the highway even, if you gear it correctly. SSR will bend over backwards to help you if you have a problem, often even out of warranty.

While not a dual sport at all, I love my SSR Buccaneer 250i. I bought it as a guinea pig, as a potential throw-away bike. I've put 10k miles on it and have been loving it. I plan to keep it forever. No problems with how it runs, but it does have a structural weakness to the rear frame section, so no luggage rack, cargo, or passengers unless you want a broken frame.

Right now I've got a CSC RX3 as well... and while it's a bit on the adventure side for you, it's got a ton of awesome bells and whistles. The only thing is I'm not sure about the reliability yet. I'm having to adjust the valves awfully frequently for my balls-out riding style. I don't have that problem with my Buccaneer.

Charles.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Megadan

The problem with your thinking here is you only have one vision of what the U.S. is like.

Also, it should be clarified that "highway" is a loose term for different types. Interstate, US, State, and County.

You would have to be insane to try a 250 on the Interstate where I live. Speed limit of 75mph, most cars do at least 80. Even the best 250 single on the market would be pretty much maxed out. In this instance, you are right.

Speed limits in my country # are in Km/h


If you are a slow moving vehicle just keep your right, let those faster than you the left and plan ahead. A lot of people would be surprised the # of people that use 80mph "highways" with 125 to 250cc motorcycle. Either because they want to or because they can't afford anything bigger.

In my city there is "highway" that is pretty around the city, in the middle there is a Shell gas station.
At night or early in the morning, people like to gather in that station with high cc motorcycle like 1000cc just to race around the city...

The Shell




This guy is my friend and a Federal law enforcement...
Even my mother goes faster than 80 mph, average 105 mph....

So yes i guess i'm bit insane, because most of the time i'm on that highway, with a 125 to 250cc motorcycles...

Maybe that's why i find it odd, that a lot of people is worried if a 250cc is "highway worthy".

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

If you are a slow moving vehicle just keep your right, let those faster than you the left and plan ahead. A lot of people would be surprised the # of people that use 80mph "highways" with 125 to 250cc motorcycle. Either because they want to or because they can't afford anything bigger.



So yes i guess i'm bit insane, because most of the time i'm on that highway, with a 125 to 250cc motorcycles...

Maybe that's why i find it odd, that a lot of people is worried if a 250cc is "highway worthy".

You aren't insane at all. I ride my Hawk on most of the highways here as well. I keep right, no sweat.

The real issue tends to be the people. Unfortunately, here in the U.S. bikes are actually not that common on the roads and people in cars often forget we exist, or simply don't care. To some they aren't even seen as legitimate means of transportation, and even a few others are intentionally aggressive toward motorcyclists without provocation. I couldn't tell you why exactly.

It's because of this that many people in the U.S. consider a bike that can't keep up with traffic a safety hazard. Even our law enforcement and DOT officials to some degree also push this mentality as well.

I could care less myself. I stay off the interstate if at all possible and simply use U.S. and State highways, mostly because of the volume of traffic along I-80 where I live, which is an extremely busy commerce route for large trucks that are also going faster than my Hawk lol.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Megadan

You aren't insane at all. I ride my Hawk on most of the highways here as well. I keep right, no sweat.

The real issue tends to be the people. Unfortunately, here in the U.S. bikes are actually not that common on the roads and people in cars often forget we exist, or simply don't care. To some they aren't even seen as legitimate means of transportation, and even a few others are intentionally aggressive toward motorcyclists without provocation. I couldn't tell you why exactly.

It's because of this that many people in the U.S. consider a bike that can't keep up with traffic a safety hazard. Even our law enforcement and DOT officials to some degree also push this mentality as well.

I could care less myself. I stay off the interstate if at all possible and simply use U.S. and State highways, mostly because of the volume of traffic along I-80 where I live, which is an extremely busy commerce route for large trucks that are also going faster than my Hawk lol.

I always tought that motorcycle were very common in the Highways or Interstate in the US. One of main reason i lile motorcycles is thanks to peter fonda Easy Rider
The real hazard here are 99% of the drivers at the highway, they will pretty much do as they please
In that same highway with BMW S1000rr... You have people that is too bored and make "funny vehicles".

Like the Kawasaki jetski turned 110cc motorcycle. I wonder if it is DOT approved xD

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

I always tought that motorcycle were very common in the Highways or Interstate in the US.

Motorcycles only make up 3% of all registered vehicles in the U.S. In some places it's higher than others (CA, FL, TX are higher than average for obvious reasons).

[Deckard_Cain]

Originally Posted by Wild Dog

"Highway worthy" Motorcycle 650cc

Attachment 23807

That Zanella RZ7i is right up my alley. Nice!

Originally Posted by Megadan

The problem with your thinking here is you only have one vision of what the U.S. is like.

Also, it should be clarified that "highway" is a loose term for different types. Interstate, US, State, and County.

You would have to be insane to try a 250 on the Interstate where I live. Speed limit of 75mph, most cars do at least 80. Even the best 250 single on the market would be pretty much maxed out. In this instance, you are right.

Most US and State Highways here have limits of 60-65mph (some US Highways are a little faster). A 250 is actually capable on these highways, although it is definitely the limit for some like our Hawks.

County highways are generally 45-60mph. Sometimes dirt, sometimes not. Any 250 is worthy here lol.

Lots of guys live in areas like mine. Very low population density outside of maybe one or two "big" cities. Lots and lots of U.S., State, and County highways that go for tens or even hundreds of miles with not much between other than the occasional "town" (very small). Once you leave these highways a lot of the time you end up on gravel and dirt roads immediately. Sometimes the term "road" is laughable.

I do agree that at least a 350-400+cc bike would be the better option, but show me a truly good dual sport bike in that displacement other than the CRF450L.

In the U.S., there really isn't much to choose from. The ADV Bikes in that size class are just road bikes with a lift kit, and usually a lot heavier.

Re: the bolded comment, Dan, would the DRZ400S fall into this category?

AS for highways/expressways, I'm in Michigan.. middle of MI. Down-state around Detroit, Grand Rapids, it's a lot more urban, concrete jungle if you will. You need to jump on an 85mph highway just to get anywhere. A 250 class bike short of a Ninja250/300, CBR300, would just get ran over.

Where I live, highways are basically big wide 2 lane rural ones for the most part. 55mph speed limits. Oh sure, we connect with I-75, US-10 (which is like the Autobahn between Bay City and the west side of the state), but you can take nice back roads or slower speed highways anywhere you like.

Much further north than me (up north), it's more gravel and dirt than paved- at least anywhere a dual sport motorcyclist would want to go.

I don't like the high speed expressway riding.. endless drone at 70+mph on a bike ... boring.

Then there are the people. Heck, even my father-in-law (a Suzuki Boulevard 1500 rider) thinks that any bike short of a 750+ cruiser is not fit for the highway because it doesn't weight enough and you'll get blown off the highway into a screaming fireball of death and mayhem.

... just don't try to tell him how many times I ride my 2000 Ninja 250 on the highway at highway speeds amongst all the crazy's in their cars.. and have no issues.

[PowerSlidz]

Thanks for all of the thoughtful replies all - gave me a lot to think about!

Yea - 70MPH on a <300lb bike is not much fun on so many levels. Nice to be able to do 70MPH though.

re: OT - so what I gather so far is there isn't anything between the <2K air-cooled 'Hawks' and those >$4K w/NC250 based-engines?

It's amazing to see what you can get (EFI?) for $2K - however but the frame / swingarms / suspension don't seem to be built for hard riding. The engine looks kind of anemic / old school as well. Are these 4-valve, counter-balanced? Someone said these are Suzuki motors?

Does any know what the NC250 is based off of. It seems most all CCP engines are copies of something...