Any reloaders here?

'16 TT250 · 05-26-2016, 02:33 AM

I started shooting black powder a few years ago, it's basically reloading on the fly. It's extremely flexible and easy since BP pretty much can't be overloaded, but there are specs that are all over the place and many of them are ludicrously flawed. I started reloading metallic cartridges about 1 1/2 years ago. I've done .38, .9mm., 44mag., .223 & 5.56, .308 & 7.62, and .338WinMag. I plan to do .45, .30 carbine, 7.62x54, 30-06, and 7.62x39 but still have more rounds than I need so I haven't felt the desire to reload for those. I want to do .25acp but need a shell plate custom made which runs $135. A few weeks ago I got a 12ga. shotgun press and have run one pitiful batch, details below.

A few things I've learned along the way-

Wet tumbling brass with dish soap and LemiShine makes for some beautifully shiny cases, nicer than many of them started out, and it doesn't take more than 30 minutes tumbling for them to look great. The insides don't get very clean tho, need some media for that and gonna get stainless steel pins soon.

The Trim-It case trimmer is fast and precise. They originally came with a nice milling bit that left no burrs, now they come with a cheesy 4 flute cutter that requires chamfering & deburring. I replaced it with a 2 flute end mill after discovering the change and that leaves a nice sharp cut. It might shave lead for those who use lead bullets, but should be good to go for jacketed bullets. I was working primer pockets (uniforming and de-crimping) so I just went ahead and touched up the necks on the chamfer/deburr tools for good measure. I'm using a Lyman 5 station case prep machine so it's not much extra work to touch the necks to the 2 tools.

My AR15s have longer than spec chambers, not uncommon, so my case trimming length is not going to be to book spec any more. My shortest chamber is 1.285 so I'm tossing the book spec maximum of 1.26 out the window.

A Lyman chamfering tool makes a super fast primer crimp remover for 5.56 brass. It may cut more than needed, not sure, but it stops itself as it bottoms out in the pocket. The regular crimp cutter tool is slow and has no stop. Well, it'll eventually stop but I'm sure it would be way over cut. A swage tool is probably the best way to go but I don't think I can use one with my press.

A Ponsness Warren 800B progressive shotgun press is almost exactly like the Hornady progressive metallic press I use, except totally different. Being used to how the Hornady runs completely screwed me up in reloading shotgun shells on the P.W. and by the time I had about 40 good shells I also had about 20 scrap shells as well as powder, shot, and primers all over the place.

Loading manuals & specs; that may be the most frustrating part about this hobby. It's nearly impossible to find multiple sources that agree on a load. The most obviously flawed guidance is minimum charges. We've been told to not go under minimum charge weights due to possible catastrophic consequences. A glance at .223 and 5.56x45 charges tells a tale. The maximums being different makes perfect sense, they're supposed to be different. The minimums as far as detonation or other issues should be about the same since the case volumes are nearly identical, but they're way different. There are many other rules that are severely flawed that I've chosen to mostly ignore as well. One gleaming example is neck sizing for an AR15. SO many people say that it can cause an out of battery ignition or slam fire which is ignorant.

Shotshell reloading is way simpler in some ways, but also super confusing. There's not only the expected powder/payload weight balance like there is in metallic cartridge reloading, but the hull/wad/payload have to be matched as well. Then there's primers. I thought they were all 209 as that's what I've always heard is the standard but no, there's also a slightly oversized primer needed for some hulls. The oversized will work with 209 size hulls but not the other way around and once an oversized is used in a 209 hull that hull must always be loaded with oversized primers. Some people say that many of these shotshell reloading rules are BS and it may be true, but I don't have enough hands on time to start being inventive yet.

FastDoc · 05-26-2016, 03:15 PM

Great hobby.

I did a ton of reloading for years.

I collect and shoot C&R units. Exotic stuff you can't really get. 8mm Nambu, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62 Nagant etc. I also like some expensive modern calibers like 500 S&W that are much cheaper to load than to buy. I also used to shoot high volumes. 1000 rounds a month of 5.56 or whatever so I needed to reload to avoid spending big bucks.

I sorta got out of the hobby a few years ago, and my thousands of dollars of equipment and supplies lay dormant waiting for someday when I have fewer hobbies competing for my time. I figure maybe when I'm (hopefully much) older and unable to enjoy the active sports I currently participate in.

FastDoc · 05-26-2016, 03:17 PM

I forgot....

I love BP and have a number of Civil War units I enjoy but have never shot BP in a modern unit. I love the smoke and smell but not the cleanup.

Also I'd not recommend .25. Too small a case volume to be consistant enough IMHO. Plus I only owned and shot one .25 worth it's salt. A Beretta tip barrel.

pistolclass · 05-26-2016, 09:24 PM

I have everything to reload except time. Besides my insurance forbidden reloads in my classes so I dont need any mix ups. I was sending about 1500 rounds per month when 9mm was $16 for 250 rounds. Now im shooting only 500 round per month for practice and competition. Of course the guns go silent during the cold new England months.

SeerAtlas · 05-27-2016, 02:53 AM

different powder /primer combos and compaction pressures can have drastically different pressure rise characteristics. don't want to preach to the choir, but when searching for the "ultimate" accuracy (which was my field of endeavor) minimum case capacity was something to be religiously considered. to achieve ultimate load consistency, you wanted to establish and maintain powder density and stability round after round. with blackpowder muzzle loaders establishing and maintaining a uniform ramrod compaction technique was imperative.

2LZ · 05-27-2016, 12:16 PM

Mrs. 2LZ reloads. Just the normal stuff, nothing exotic. To her, not only is it about keeping stocked with ammo but more importantly, it's "special time" she gets to spend with her 80 year old dad, so the hobby of reloading can have multiple benefits!

kohburn · 05-27-2016, 04:16 PM

I just reload my main two calibers, 9mm and 223/556

'16 TT250 · 05-27-2016, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

I forgot....Plus I only owned and shot one .25 worth it's salt. A Beretta tip barrel.

We share another commonality. Mine is a model 20, I believe it's the rarer of the models. Many say that they're not accurate enough and not big enough to use for protection, I ask those naysayers how many rounds they're willing to let me fire at them to prove it's a useless gun; still waiting for a challenge taker to step up. Surprisingly it's a very accurate gun, a bit challenging with the tiny sights, but I can out hit all my friends with any handgun they use. Adding some grip tape helped a lot, still have to be careful of slide-bite as my hands are kinda big for such a small pistol. I actually shoot better with it than my others which I have recently realized may mean that I'm recoil sensitive and need more range time with the bigger ones.

All my BP guns are cheap modern ones, my $ level doesn't allow for high end stuff/collectibles. They shoot well and my GF also got into them which is cool.

pistolclass · 05-27-2016, 08:01 PM

a .25 will just barely kill you

FastDoc · 05-27-2016, 08:10 PM

My little Beretta, a Model 21 IIRC, was deadly accurate at combat distances up to 21 feet. I think the tiny sights helped on target. It was also 100% reliable. That's the MOST important thing in a carry unit, IMHO. I really liked that gun. Traded it for a Tomcat .32 which ran well also.

People also forget, even if the caliber is short on stopping power, a person can just keep pulling the trigger until the threat is neutralized.

FastDoc · 05-27-2016, 08:15 PM

My Civil War BP guns are all replicas. As much as I love to shoot, I'd not likely shoot a real CV unit other than once or twice. Too valuable and important a piece of history. Even the replicas are wonderful, and a pleasure to hold and use.

I shoot mostly WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Cold War, War of 1812, Spanish American War, Korean War stuff. From maybe a score of different countries, many of which are no longer on the map.

My most prized units are Israeli Mausers.

I really enjoy firearms. Hope we get to keep them after the election...

If Trump loses of course all my firearms are plastic toys, I don't REALLY have any guns...

'16 TT250 · 05-27-2016, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

My Civil War BP guns are all replicas. As much as I love to shoot, I'd not likely shoot a real CV unit other than once or twice. Too valuable and important a piece of history. Even the replicas are wonderful, and a pleasure to hold and use.

I shoot mostly WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Cold War, War of 1812, Spanish American War, Korean War stuff. From maybe a score of different countries, many of which are no longer on the map.

My most prized units are Israeli Mausers.

I really enjoy firearms. Hope we get to keep them after the election...

If Trump loses of course all my firearms are plastic toys, I don't REALLY have any guns...

Mine were all unfortunately lost in a boating accident, in really deep water. I only speak figuratively, I wish I had guns.

She's a 28 footer, fully insured, and with minimal emotional value if you ever feel the need to go for a ride.

'16 TT250 · 05-27-2016, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pistolclass

a .25 will just barely kill you

Maybe, but only a little bit.

05-26-2016, 02:33 AM	#1
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	Any reloaders here? I started shooting black powder a few years ago, it's basically reloading on the fly. It's extremely flexible and easy since BP pretty much can't be overloaded, but there are specs that are all over the place and many of them are ludicrously flawed. I started reloading metallic cartridges about 1 1/2 years ago. I've done .38, .9mm., 44mag., .223 & 5.56, .308 & 7.62, and .338WinMag. I plan to do .45, .30 carbine, 7.62x54, 30-06, and 7.62x39 but still have more rounds than I need so I haven't felt the desire to reload for those. I want to do .25acp but need a shell plate custom made which runs $135. A few weeks ago I got a 12ga. shotgun press and have run one pitiful batch, details below. A few things I've learned along the way- Wet tumbling brass with dish soap and LemiShine makes for some beautifully shiny cases, nicer than many of them started out, and it doesn't take more than 30 minutes tumbling for them to look great. The insides don't get very clean tho, need some media for that and gonna get stainless steel pins soon. The Trim-It case trimmer is fast and precise. They originally came with a nice milling bit that left no burrs, now they come with a cheesy 4 flute cutter that requires chamfering & deburring. I replaced it with a 2 flute end mill after discovering the change and that leaves a nice sharp cut. It might shave lead for those who use lead bullets, but should be good to go for jacketed bullets. I was working primer pockets (uniforming and de-crimping) so I just went ahead and touched up the necks on the chamfer/deburr tools for good measure. I'm using a Lyman 5 station case prep machine so it's not much extra work to touch the necks to the 2 tools. My AR15s have longer than spec chambers, not uncommon, so my case trimming length is not going to be to book spec any more. My shortest chamber is 1.285 so I'm tossing the book spec maximum of 1.26 out the window. A Lyman chamfering tool makes a super fast primer crimp remover for 5.56 brass. It may cut more than needed, not sure, but it stops itself as it bottoms out in the pocket. The regular crimp cutter tool is slow and has no stop. Well, it'll eventually stop but I'm sure it would be way over cut. A swage tool is probably the best way to go but I don't think I can use one with my press. A Ponsness Warren 800B progressive shotgun press is almost exactly like the Hornady progressive metallic press I use, except totally different. Being used to how the Hornady runs completely screwed me up in reloading shotgun shells on the P.W. and by the time I had about 40 good shells I also had about 20 scrap shells as well as powder, shot, and primers all over the place. Loading manuals & specs; that may be the most frustrating part about this hobby. It's nearly impossible to find multiple sources that agree on a load. The most obviously flawed guidance is minimum charges. We've been told to not go under minimum charge weights due to possible catastrophic consequences. A glance at .223 and 5.56x45 charges tells a tale. The maximums being different makes perfect sense, they're supposed to be different. The minimums as far as detonation or other issues should be about the same since the case volumes are nearly identical, but they're way different. There are many other rules that are severely flawed that I've chosen to mostly ignore as well. One gleaming example is neck sizing for an AR15. SO many people say that it can cause an out of battery ignition or slam fire which is ignorant. Shotshell reloading is way simpler in some ways, but also super confusing. There's not only the expected powder/payload weight balance like there is in metallic cartridge reloading, but the hull/wad/payload have to be matched as well. Then there's primers. I thought they were all 209 as that's what I've always heard is the standard but no, there's also a slightly oversized primer needed for some hulls. The oversized will work with 209 size hulls but not the other way around and once an oversized is used in a 209 hull that hull must always be loaded with oversized primers. Some people say that many of these shotshell reloading rules are BS and it may be true, but I don't have enough hands on time to start being inventive yet.
	0

05-26-2016, 03:15 PM	#2
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Great hobby. I did a ton of reloading for years. I collect and shoot C&R units. Exotic stuff you can't really get. 8mm Nambu, 7.5 Swiss, 7.62 Nagant etc. I also like some expensive modern calibers like 500 S&W that are much cheaper to load than to buy. I also used to shoot high volumes. 1000 rounds a month of 5.56 or whatever so I needed to reload to avoid spending big bucks. I sorta got out of the hobby a few years ago, and my thousands of dollars of equipment and supplies lay dormant waiting for someday when I have fewer hobbies competing for my time. I figure maybe when I'm (hopefully much) older and unable to enjoy the active sports I currently participate in. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

05-26-2016, 03:17 PM	#3
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	I forgot.... I love BP and have a number of Civil War units I enjoy but have never shot BP in a modern unit. I love the smoke and smell but not the cleanup. Also I'd not recommend .25. Too small a case volume to be consistant enough IMHO. Plus I only owned and shot one .25 worth it's salt. A Beretta tip barrel. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

05-27-2016, 02:53 AM	#5
SeerAtlas Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 770	different powder /primer combos and compaction pressures can have drastically different pressure rise characteristics. don't want to preach to the choir, but when searching for the "ultimate" accuracy (which was my field of endeavor) minimum case capacity was something to be religiously considered. to achieve ultimate load consistency, you wanted to establish and maintain powder density and stability round after round. with blackpowder muzzle loaders establishing and maintaining a uniform ramrod compaction technique was imperative. __________________ Seer's First LAW-"FLY THE PLANE!", fail that, and nothing else matters. 12th Law- Consider what marvels you might do if only you had tomorrow to live over again. Third Law-When someone tells you some thing "Can't Be Done", what they're really saying is They can't do it!!14th Law-Just because something "IS", doesn't necessarily mean it SHOULD be.. Eighth Law-The only true personal security is anonymity.Ninth Law-Humans tend to learn very little when speaking.10th Law-Some lives ARE worth taking
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05-27-2016, 12:16 PM	#6
2LZ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Volcano, Ca Posts: 7,078	Mrs. 2LZ reloads. Just the normal stuff, nothing exotic. To her, not only is it about keeping stocked with ammo but more importantly, it's "special time" she gets to spend with her 80 year old dad, so the hobby of reloading can have multiple benefits! __________________ "Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life." 2007 Suzuki DRZ400S (SM convert) 2009 Q Link XP 200 1967 BSA B25 250cc Starfire 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 2023 Royal Enfield Scram 411 1948 Royal Enfield Model G 350
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05-26-2016, 09:24 PM	#4
pistolclass Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: connecticut Posts: 978	I have everything to reload except time. Besides my insurance forbidden reloads in my classes so I dont need any mix ups. I was sending about 1500 rounds per month when 9mm was $16 for 250 rounds. Now im shooting only 500 round per month for practice and competition. Of course the guns go silent during the cold new England months.
	1

05-27-2016, 04:16 PM	#7
kohburn Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Coastal NC Posts: 537	I just reload my main two calibers, 9mm and 223/556 __________________ -whatever you do, just be awesome. - 2008 Kawasaki Versys - 2016 CSC TT250
	0

05-27-2016, 08:01 PM	#9
pistolclass Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: connecticut Posts: 978	a .25 will just barely kill you
	0

05-27-2016, 08:10 PM	#10
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	My little Beretta, a Model 21 IIRC, was deadly accurate at combat distances up to 21 feet. I think the tiny sights helped on target. It was also 100% reliable. That's the MOST important thing in a carry unit, IMHO. I really liked that gun. Traded it for a Tomcat .32 which ran well also. People also forget, even if the caliber is short on stopping power, a person can just keep pulling the trigger until the threat is neutralized. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

05-27-2016, 08:15 PM	#11
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	My Civil War BP guns are all replicas. As much as I love to shoot, I'd not likely shoot a real CV unit other than once or twice. Too valuable and important a piece of history. Even the replicas are wonderful, and a pleasure to hold and use. I shoot mostly WWI, WWII, Vietnam, Cold War, War of 1812, Spanish American War, Korean War stuff. From maybe a score of different countries, many of which are no longer on the map. My most prized units are Israeli Mausers. I really enjoy firearms. Hope we get to keep them after the election... If Trump loses of course all my firearms are plastic toys, I don't REALLY have any guns... __________________ Happy to serve.
	0