First performance mod to the TT250

'16 TT250 · 05-23-2016, 08:18 PM

Lubing the fork seals/wipers. The fork stiction on this thing was driving me nuts, sure I've been spoiled by Ohlins, but these forks were beyond sh!tty. I could pull the bike off the stand and sit on it (175#) and they wouldn't move. Force them down and start unloading the weight and they would bump up 2 or 3 times. Put it back on the stand they would bump up again. Lift on it and usually bump up again. Quite sh!tty riding as it would take quite a bump to get them to move. I pulled the wipers down, smeared a bit of MerconSP ATF on each tube, rotated the wipers to smear the oil all the way around, and reinstalled. I bounced it a few times to get the fluid into the seals and put it back on the stand. It felt better just bouncing it, but things generally do when you expect them to. I put the oil & tools away, came back to check it out, and as I pulled it off the stand they compressed! I hoped for some change but this was incredible, they actually have some sag with just the bike's weight. I sat on it and they dropped more. They're still not great, but acceptable for what it is. A short ride confirmed what I felt parked, so much better.

Pulling down the wipers: I used a thin bladed screwdriver to just pry them down. It takes a good bit of finger force to get them back in, especially with the fork guards in the way. A little oil around the outside will make it easier for anyone not able to get them back in.

Oil choice: I used the SP because I have it and it's supposed to be low friction stuff. I'm sure there are better choices and most likely anything will do a good job. Spitting on them may even improve them; did I happen to mention that they were Super Sh!tty? I considered silicone lube as it's usually my go-to for rubber and plastic but didn't wanna risk any possible compatibility issues with the fork oil, as much as it's probably a non-issue.

Longevity: It may not be a long term cure, hard to say. I already have a wick in mind if it turns out to need to be re-oiled frequently.

I'm going to see if CSC is willing to lend me a fork for some testing/modding, assuming they have a loose one laying around. I wanna break one down and really experiment with the bushings, springs, valving, etc. without downing my bike.

mq1991 · 05-23-2016, 09:28 PM

Is that something that would change with miles put on the bike? Like would it be better after the break in period?

moparrob · 05-23-2016, 11:09 PM

Thanks for the tip. I will definitely try that when mine arrives.

2LZ · 05-24-2016, 03:40 PM

Notoriously, all lubes in CB's, including fork oil, is garbage. I'd swap it out with some good Bel Ray 10w or whatever your preference is.

When Mrs. 2LZ TT250 finally arrives, it's going right on the rack and the fork fluid's getting changed.

LaconiaTim · 05-28-2016, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by '16 TT250

Pulling down the wipers: I used a thin bladed screwdriver to just pry them down. It takes a good bit of finger force to get them back in, especially with the fork guards in the way. A little oil around the outside will make it easier for anyone not able to get them back in.

hmm, I think one normally needs a fork seal driver to get the wipers seated well. Maybe the noticed improvement in fork travel is from introducing air into the forks/breaking the seal? It doesn't seem to add up.

'16 TT250 · 05-28-2016, 11:03 PM

It did seem to get a hair better with some miles, but it was still really bad. I was at CSC Friday and checked a few bikes, some were really smooth, others not, but none were as bad as mine was.

The oil may be garbage and changing it to a premium oil should make them better, but first you need to know what weight is in there and what you want. The numbers on fork oils are notoriously misleading. I've found some charts that show the different fork oils and their true viscosities. Unfortunately unless you have the specs of the current oil it'll be a crapshoot as to where to start. You could send a sample to Blackstone Labs and find out what's in them from the factory.

I've never had a problem seating the wipers by hand and removing them can't introduce air to the system. Removing the seals can, don't do that for this procedure. The wipers are the first rubber you can see, the seals are further in. I pulled the wipers on my Ducati's Ohlins a few times to clean the seals. They're low tension seals and notorious for leaks, but they're warm buttery smooth forks.

SicSemperTyrannis · 05-29-2016, 11:36 PM

Have you loosened all the lower fork triple clamp bolts, axle, and upper triple nut and let the forks find a nice neutral state?

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tip...fork-alignment

Weldangrind · 05-30-2016, 10:59 AM

You can learn a lot from Spud's fork adventures; I did.

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=10266

'16 TT250 · 05-30-2016, 01:24 PM

I haven't checked them for alignment assuming they were installed correctly, yea my bad.

Spud's forks look like regular and not inverted type like the TT uses -?-

Weldangrind · 05-31-2016, 12:48 AM

No, Spud's forks are inverted.

05-23-2016, 08:18 PM	#1
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	First performance mod to the TT250 Lubing the fork seals/wipers. The fork stiction on this thing was driving me nuts, sure I've been spoiled by Ohlins, but these forks were beyond sh!tty. I could pull the bike off the stand and sit on it (175#) and they wouldn't move. Force them down and start unloading the weight and they would bump up 2 or 3 times. Put it back on the stand they would bump up again. Lift on it and usually bump up again. Quite sh!tty riding as it would take quite a bump to get them to move. I pulled the wipers down, smeared a bit of MerconSP ATF on each tube, rotated the wipers to smear the oil all the way around, and reinstalled. I bounced it a few times to get the fluid into the seals and put it back on the stand. It felt better just bouncing it, but things generally do when you expect them to. I put the oil & tools away, came back to check it out, and as I pulled it off the stand they compressed! I hoped for some change but this was incredible, they actually have some sag with just the bike's weight. I sat on it and they dropped more. They're still not great, but acceptable for what it is. A short ride confirmed what I felt parked, so much better. Pulling down the wipers: I used a thin bladed screwdriver to just pry them down. It takes a good bit of finger force to get them back in, especially with the fork guards in the way. A little oil around the outside will make it easier for anyone not able to get them back in. Oil choice: I used the SP because I have it and it's supposed to be low friction stuff. I'm sure there are better choices and most likely anything will do a good job. Spitting on them may even improve them; did I happen to mention that they were Super Sh!tty? I considered silicone lube as it's usually my go-to for rubber and plastic but didn't wanna risk any possible compatibility issues with the fork oil, as much as it's probably a non-issue. Longevity: It may not be a long term cure, hard to say. I already have a wick in mind if it turns out to need to be re-oiled frequently. I'm going to see if CSC is willing to lend me a fork for some testing/modding, assuming they have a loose one laying around. I wanna break one down and really experiment with the bushings, springs, valving, etc. without downing my bike.
	0

05-24-2016, 03:40 PM	#4
2LZ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Volcano, Ca Posts: 7,070	Notoriously, all lubes in CB's, including fork oil, is garbage. I'd swap it out with some good Bel Ray 10w or whatever your preference is. When Mrs. 2LZ TT250 finally arrives, it's going right on the rack and the fork fluid's getting changed. __________________ "Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life." 2007 Suzuki DRZ400S (SM convert) 2009 Q Link XP 200 1967 BSA B25 250cc Starfire 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 2023 Royal Enfield Scram 411 1948 Royal Enfield Model G 350
	3

05-30-2016, 10:59 AM	#8
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	You can learn a lot from Spud's fork adventures; I did. http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=10266 __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-31-2016, 12:48 AM	#10
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	No, Spud's forks are inverted. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

05-23-2016, 09:28 PM	#2
mq1991 Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Gurnee, Illinois Posts: 277	Is that something that would change with miles put on the bike? Like would it be better after the break in period?
	1

05-23-2016, 11:09 PM	#3
moparrob Join Date: Apr 2016 Posts: 79	Thanks for the tip. I will definitely try that when mine arrives.
	0

05-28-2016, 11:03 PM	#6
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	It did seem to get a hair better with some miles, but it was still really bad. I was at CSC Friday and checked a few bikes, some were really smooth, others not, but none were as bad as mine was. The oil may be garbage and changing it to a premium oil should make them better, but first you need to know what weight is in there and what you want. The numbers on fork oils are notoriously misleading. I've found some charts that show the different fork oils and their true viscosities. Unfortunately unless you have the specs of the current oil it'll be a crapshoot as to where to start. You could send a sample to Blackstone Labs and find out what's in them from the factory. I've never had a problem seating the wipers by hand and removing them can't introduce air to the system. Removing the seals can, don't do that for this procedure. The wipers are the first rubber you can see, the seals are further in. I pulled the wipers on my Ducati's Ohlins a few times to clean the seals. They're low tension seals and notorious for leaks, but they're warm buttery smooth forks.
	0

05-29-2016, 11:36 PM	#7
SicSemperTyrannis Join Date: May 2016 Posts: 5	Have you loosened all the lower fork triple clamp bolts, axle, and upper triple nut and let the forks find a nice neutral state? http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/tip...fork-alignment
	0

05-30-2016, 01:24 PM	#9
'16 TT250 Join Date: May 2016 Location: Hacienda Heights, Ca Posts: 281	I haven't checked them for alignment assuming they were installed correctly, yea my bad. Spud's forks look like regular and not inverted type like the TT uses -?-
	0