A Tough Choice.

Megadan · 09-15-2017, 06:07 AM

So to start off - Disclaimer - long post. Kind of a ramble of my thoughts, so sorry if it is hard to follow lol.

Some of you are aware of my long owned and very much loved GL1000 Goldwing. Beyond the fact that I love this bike just as it is, or that I have sank my heart and soul into reviving, restoring, improving, and simply keeping it on the road over these many years... This bike has a strong sentimental value to me. It is my first bike - it is Genesis for me to my life on 2 wheels. It has a personality and a soul. It has moods.

That's the problem though. It has moods. Even doing my best to keep this old girl running as well as it does, it's still a 42 year old bike, and as it gets older the parts are getting harder and harder to find, making it far less practical to keep using as a daily rider. One of the reasons I got my Hawk was to be a backup bike for when it inevitably needs work or has to be put down for months while I hunt down some part that hasn't been made for 30 years, or spending hundreds of dollars to buy low production reproduced parts. Example: If the u-joint on the driveshaft goes out, there is no replacing it and the only option is a used shaft, which is a gamble. Then I can spend several hundreds of dollars trying to machine the shaft ends to accept some form of replaceable joint.

I am starting to accept that this bike is entering the realm of "weekend cruiser." However, the Hawk...as great as it is, isn't quite enough bike to use as a serious daily for me.

So that leads me to something I have been thinking about lately, and it's a hard decision. I want to sell the Goldwing, hopefully to another Winger that appreciates the bike and will love it, and pick up something new. I miss having a sportier bike, something powerful and lighter weight, but I don't want to spend more than $10,000 on a bike.

I have narrowed my choices down to two, both also naked bikes (it's what I love) but both very different. The one thing they have in common is their simplicity.
1. The Kawasaki Z900RS - the retro version of the Z900, a bike I like a lot, that is coming out in 2018. It's a nice all rounder. Good power, flat torque curve with a smooth linear power delivery, light, comfortable, handles amazing, and good brakes. Plus, it's Japanese....hard to go wrong.

2. The EBR 1190SX. I have found a few 2016's and 2017's on closeout/liquidation with little to no miles on them that fall right under my price point. The weight is about the same as the Z900, but it's a lot more powerful and would be the most powerful bike I have ever owned if I got one. I am not an inexperienced rider, so that doesn't concern me. What I love is that it's a powerful big V-twin. What has me wary is the parts cost and availability of said parts in 10 years. Technically, EBR still exists, and they will still offer parts for a few years. However, being a lower production number bike, the aftermarket support will be limited. There is also the issue of zero warranty from the factory, so if something major goes wrong, I would be boned.

The EBR is the bike I really want by a long shot. It's everything I love and want in a bike. I don't doubt the quality of the parts or its assembly, just the "what if" factor.

Before you say it, I have considered the FZ 09, but I can't get past the ugliness. I know that can be fixed...but bleh.

Also, before you say "get a used bike," just keep in mind that I have done nothing but buy, fix, and restore older bikes. I may be able to find a low mile year old bike here or there that is unmodified, but I don't know how it was treated, or if any maintenance was actually done... or if it got dropped 50 times. I want to experience owning a factory fresh bike for once in my life, and no the Hawk doesn't qualify in my mind. It's been as tempermental and maintenance needy as all of my old bikes lol.

It's hard playing with the idea of letting go of something so prominent in my life, but I also don't have the space or time to keep three bikes, I don't want to pay for insurance on a bike I will rarely ever ride, and Goldwings don't like to sit for long periods of time. Every time I ride her though, as much as I have fun, it just feels stale. I could try and reinvent it again, or do something crazy like supercharge it, which would then risk breaking more impossible to find parts, but I will still be riding the same old battleship. Plus, I have to admit it... Having an EFI bike would be nice.

pete · 09-15-2017, 07:39 AM

Buy a bike that is also sold in europe as they have to be able to
surply factoy parts for 15 years after the model has gone out
of production..

just but a Norton..

PS.. is the EBR running a Harley motor... the cases looked sort of like a LC8...

.

Megadan · 09-15-2017, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Buy a bike that is also sold in europe as they have to be able to
surply factoy parts for 15 years after the model has gone out
of production..

just but a Norton..

PS.. is the EBR running a Harley motor... the cases looked sort of like a LC8...

.

The parts supply is the one hang up with the EBR. By US Law there has to be a production of parts for up to 5 or 10 years after the end of a model.

The EBR 1190 engine is in fact not a Harley engine. It is based off of a Rotax 1125 engine from Australia which has been tweaked by EBR for better power output.

pete · 09-15-2017, 05:19 PM

Thats the main reason I don't ride my 79 Montesa 125 H6 enduro very often
and take it very easy on it when I do...If I pop the motor I'm stuffed.
The H6 250 & 360 are easy to get parts but the 125 is a diffrent story
and the parts when you do find them are worth a fortune...
Is why it is all cleaned/polished up and sitting in my lounge...

.

Darkrider · 09-15-2017, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

The parts supply is the one hang up with the EBR. By US Law there has to be a production of parts for up to 5 or 10 years after the end of a model.

The EBR 1190 engine is in fact not a Harley engine. It is based off of a Rotax 1125 engine from Australia which has been tweaked by EBR for better power output.

Well in a way it was as it was used for the Buell 1125R that EBR made for Harley before HD cut the brand loose.

Megadan · 09-15-2017, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Thats the main reason I don't ride my 79 Montesa 125 H6 enduro very often
and take it very easy on it when I do...If I pop the motor I'm stuffed.
The H6 250 & 360 are easy to get parts but the 125 is a diffrent story
and the parts when you do find them are worth a fortune...
Is why it is all cleaned/polished up and sitting in my lounge...

.

That is going to eventually be the life of my Goldwing. I don't like vehicles that have to sit. I am a firm believer in driving/riding something as it was intended. I am so avid on maintenance and care for my vehicles because I can be hard on them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darkrider

Well in a way it was as it was used for the Buell 1125R that EBR made for Harley before HD cut the brand loose.

While you could argue that technicality, it's not a Harley engine. It wasn't designed by them, and more importantly, it's water cooled - but not a V-Rod engine, and pretty much came straight from Rotax.

The 1190 is essentially the next evolution from the 1125. That might be it's saving grace as far as parts go, such as brake rotors and pads and other smaller bits.

BlackBike · 09-16-2017, 04:42 PM

Dano..I'm thinking the ebr is akin to owning a supercar, great to have but behind the scenes...omg the costs . And now ebr is shut down once again from what i read.

The kaw is what you want to go with. Pure dependability which is what you need after your long term relationship with the goldwing. All the joy without all the wrenching.

Do you really need more than 900cc ?

Your looking for pure street, not adventure class I assume?

My dream bike seems like its going to be the yam tenere 700... we'll see

Your right about your post...i needed the cliff note version

BlackBike · 09-16-2017, 04:46 PM

Megadan · 09-16-2017, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackBike

Dano..I'm thinking the ebr is akin to owning a supercar, great to have but behind the scenes...omg the costs . And now ebr is shut down once again from what i read.

The kaw is what you want to go with. Pure dependability which is what you need after your long term relationship with the goldwing. All the joy without all the wrenching.

Do you really need more than 900cc ?

Your looking for pure street, not adventure class I assume?

My dream bike seems like its going to be the yam tenere 700... we'll see

Your right about your post...i needed the cliff note version

From everything I have read about the EBR 1190 reading owners posts on problems and maintenance, they are surprisingly much less needy than I thought they would be. Obviously, they will be much more maintenance needy than the Z900 or my Goldwing with such a high compression and specific output, but they aren't quite 1980's Ferrari needy either.

No, I am not much for the adventure bikes. On the street I tend to be more prone to twisty roads and high speed adventures than I am trekking down the less traveled "off beaten" paths.

Do I need more than 900cc... Define need? Realistically, nobody needs a bike bigger than 500-600cc. That engine size is big enough to easily keep up with and manuver through traffic, do any posted highway speed limit, and is big enough to suit most needs.

My needs = powerful, good chassis, but comfortable and useable for a trip from time to time. The EBR easily fills the first three needs, and is capable of the latter although not the most ideally suited. The Z900 has less of the first two, but is definitely more useable and as you pointed out will likely be less needy and more reliable long term.

The Z900 does seem to be held back quite a bit from the factory too. I have seen dyno evidence from intake, exhaust, and tuning that show a 20+whp gain, which is amazing, and puts it at an easy 150-160 crank hp, which is close to the EBR.

As far as my long winded nature of posting... I am well aware of it. I am a writer of sorts as well as my very detail oriented nature that makes for.... longer than normal posts like this one lol.

And yes, that RS model looks to be pure win. I love the looks, I love the chassis, and it has a great engine. I await the official release in a month, because I really want to know what it will actually look like.

BlackBike · 09-17-2017, 12:22 AM

I wasn't aware of this kaw. I like its looks. Reminds me of old school, with, like you mention, nice efi. The exhaust is very cool too. If you are serious about pulling the trigger I think you would be happy with the kaw. I'm partial to kaw, they make dam nice power plants for lawn mowers too

.

Keep us posted !

Megadan · 09-17-2017, 12:35 AM

I honestly don't like the exhaust in that picture. The tips/mufflers are too big, and there is one on each side of that concept drawing. They sit too high and stick out too far to mount throw-over bags for any sort of trip. That is why I am awaiting the unveiling of the production model in October. I won't decide for sure until I see the actual production bike for myself.

I also hope that they don't jack the price up by a grand over the standard Z900 either. There is nothing about this bike that warrants such a huge price increase in my eyes, but manufacturers seem to put a premium on retro bikes. The XSR900 is like this, $600 more than an FZ09 for...a round headlight, different gauge, a rear fender and round LED tail light.

This is likely to be closer to what the actual production version will look like.
http://greatbiker.com/wp-content/upl...1-1024x574.jpg

ChondaChondaChonda · 09-17-2017, 12:36 AM

Sounds like a win-win choice to me! I'm partial to the EBR, it is a favorite and I hope to own one someday.

I do have a Ulysses in the garage ; mostly because it is my wife's favorite bike to be pillion on. She likes being up where she can see over my helmet and the rear suspension is generally easier on her back than other bikes we have owned.

The Rotax motor in an adventure chassis was something that I was wishing EBR might build, but it never happened.

Megadan · 09-17-2017, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChondaChondaChonda

Sounds like a win-win choice to me! I'm partial to the EBR, it is a favorite and I hope to own one someday.

I do have a Ulysses in the garage ; mostly because it is my wife's favorite bike to be pillion on. She likes being up where she can see over my helmet and the rear suspension is generally easier on her back than other bikes we have owned.

The Rotax motor in an adventure chassis was something that I was wishing EBR might build, but it never happened.

That motor in an adventure bike would remind me a lot of the VFR1200X. That's a lot of power lol.

09-15-2017, 06:07 AM	#1
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 7,905	A Tough Choice. So to start off - Disclaimer - long post. Kind of a ramble of my thoughts, so sorry if it is hard to follow lol. Some of you are aware of my long owned and very much loved GL1000 Goldwing. Beyond the fact that I love this bike just as it is, or that I have sank my heart and soul into reviving, restoring, improving, and simply keeping it on the road over these many years... This bike has a strong sentimental value to me. It is my first bike - it is Genesis for me to my life on 2 wheels. It has a personality and a soul. It has moods. That's the problem though. It has moods. Even doing my best to keep this old girl running as well as it does, it's still a 42 year old bike, and as it gets older the parts are getting harder and harder to find, making it far less practical to keep using as a daily rider. One of the reasons I got my Hawk was to be a backup bike for when it inevitably needs work or has to be put down for months while I hunt down some part that hasn't been made for 30 years, or spending hundreds of dollars to buy low production reproduced parts. Example: If the u-joint on the driveshaft goes out, there is no replacing it and the only option is a used shaft, which is a gamble. Then I can spend several hundreds of dollars trying to machine the shaft ends to accept some form of replaceable joint. I am starting to accept that this bike is entering the realm of "weekend cruiser." However, the Hawk...as great as it is, isn't quite enough bike to use as a serious daily for me. So that leads me to something I have been thinking about lately, and it's a hard decision. I want to sell the Goldwing, hopefully to another Winger that appreciates the bike and will love it, and pick up something new. I miss having a sportier bike, something powerful and lighter weight, but I don't want to spend more than $10,000 on a bike. I have narrowed my choices down to two, both also naked bikes (it's what I love) but both very different. The one thing they have in common is their simplicity. 1. The Kawasaki Z900RS - the retro version of the Z900, a bike I like a lot, that is coming out in 2018. It's a nice all rounder. Good power, flat torque curve with a smooth linear power delivery, light, comfortable, handles amazing, and good brakes. Plus, it's Japanese....hard to go wrong. 2. The EBR 1190SX. I have found a few 2016's and 2017's on closeout/liquidation with little to no miles on them that fall right under my price point. The weight is about the same as the Z900, but it's a lot more powerful and would be the most powerful bike I have ever owned if I got one. I am not an inexperienced rider, so that doesn't concern me. What I love is that it's a powerful big V-twin. What has me wary is the parts cost and availability of said parts in 10 years. Technically, EBR still exists, and they will still offer parts for a few years. However, being a lower production number bike, the aftermarket support will be limited. There is also the issue of zero warranty from the factory, so if something major goes wrong, I would be boned. The EBR is the bike I really want by a long shot. It's everything I love and want in a bike. I don't doubt the quality of the parts or its assembly, just the "what if" factor. Before you say it, I have considered the FZ 09, but I can't get past the ugliness. I know that can be fixed...but bleh. Also, before you say "get a used bike," just keep in mind that I have done nothing but buy, fix, and restore older bikes. I may be able to find a low mile year old bike here or there that is unmodified, but I don't know how it was treated, or if any maintenance was actually done... or if it got dropped 50 times. I want to experience owning a factory fresh bike for once in my life, and no the Hawk doesn't qualify in my mind. It's been as tempermental and maintenance needy as all of my old bikes lol. It's hard playing with the idea of letting go of something so prominent in my life, but I also don't have the space or time to keep three bikes, I don't want to pay for insurance on a bike I will rarely ever ride, and Goldwings don't like to sit for long periods of time. Every time I ride her though, as much as I have fun, it just feels stale. I could try and reinvent it again, or do something crazy like supercharge it, which would then risk breaking more impossible to find parts, but I will still be riding the same old battleship. Plus, I have to admit it... Having an EFI bike would be nice. __________________ 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2010 VFR1200F - http://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20708
	0

09-15-2017, 07:39 AM	#2
pete Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: ChCh , NZ Posts: 2,261	Buy a bike that is also sold in europe as they have to be able to surply factoy parts for 15 years after the model has gone out of production.. just but a Norton.. PS.. is the EBR running a Harley motor... the cases looked sort of like a LC8... . __________________ 09 XT660R ... 06 TTR250 ... 80 Montesa H6 125 Enduro... 77 Montesa Cota 348 MRR "Malcom Rathnell Replica"... Current resto projects.. 81 Honda CT110... 80 Kawasaki KL250A1... 11 Husaburg TE125 enduro... "sold" along with another 31... Lifan 125 Pitbike.. "stolen" ... KIWI BIKER FORUM...... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/content.php All the best offroad rides in NZ... http://www.remotemoto.com/ E-mail... xtpete1@gmail.com
	0

09-15-2017, 05:19 PM	#4
pete Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: ChCh , NZ Posts: 2,261	Thats the main reason I don't ride my 79 Montesa 125 H6 enduro very often and take it very easy on it when I do...If I pop the motor I'm stuffed. The H6 250 & 360 are easy to get parts but the 125 is a diffrent story and the parts when you do find them are worth a fortune... Is why it is all cleaned/polished up and sitting in my lounge... . __________________ 09 XT660R ... 06 TTR250 ... 80 Montesa H6 125 Enduro... 77 Montesa Cota 348 MRR "Malcom Rathnell Replica"... Current resto projects.. 81 Honda CT110... 80 Kawasaki KL250A1... 11 Husaburg TE125 enduro... "sold" along with another 31... Lifan 125 Pitbike.. "stolen" ... KIWI BIKER FORUM...... http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/content.php All the best offroad rides in NZ... http://www.remotemoto.com/ E-mail... xtpete1@gmail.com
	0

09-16-2017, 04:42 PM	#7
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Dano..I'm thinking the ebr is akin to owning a supercar, great to have but behind the scenes...omg the costs . And now ebr is shut down once again from what i read. The kaw is what you want to go with. Pure dependability which is what you need after your long term relationship with the goldwing. All the joy without all the wrenching. Do you really need more than 900cc ? Your looking for pure street, not adventure class I assume? My dream bike seems like its going to be the yam tenere 700... we'll see Your right about your post...i needed the cliff note version __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	0

09-16-2017, 04:46 PM	#8
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	Awesome Sauce __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	1

09-17-2017, 12:22 AM	#10
BlackBike Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: George West, Texas Posts: 4,097	I wasn't aware of this kaw. I like its looks. Reminds me of old school, with, like you mention, nice efi. The exhaust is very cool too. If you are serious about pulling the trigger I think you would be happy with the kaw. I'm partial to kaw, they make dam nice power plants for lawn mowers too. Keep us posted ! __________________ ***************************************** 2015 Bashan"Blaze" BS250GY-31 (DB-07K-250) GONE 2017 Suzuki V Strom 650 XT "We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." ~Benjamin Franklin~
	0

09-17-2017, 12:35 AM	#11
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 7,905	I honestly don't like the exhaust in that picture. The tips/mufflers are too big, and there is one on each side of that concept drawing. They sit too high and stick out too far to mount throw-over bags for any sort of trip. That is why I am awaiting the unveiling of the production model in October. I won't decide for sure until I see the actual production bike for myself. I also hope that they don't jack the price up by a grand over the standard Z900 either. There is nothing about this bike that warrants such a huge price increase in my eyes, but manufacturers seem to put a premium on retro bikes. The XSR900 is like this, $600 more than an FZ09 for...a round headlight, different gauge, a rear fender and round LED tail light. This is likely to be closer to what the actual production version will look like. http://greatbiker.com/wp-content/upl...1-1024x574.jpg __________________ 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2010 VFR1200F - http://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20708
	0

09-17-2017, 12:36 AM	#12
ChondaChondaChonda Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 547	Sounds like a win-win choice to me! I'm partial to the EBR, it is a favorite and I hope to own one someday. I do have a Ulysses in the garage ; mostly because it is my wife's favorite bike to be pillion on. She likes being up where she can see over my helmet and the rear suspension is generally easier on her back than other bikes we have owned. The Rotax motor in an adventure chassis was something that I was wishing EBR might build, but it never happened.
	0