GioBikes.com and why I will not be doing business with them.

[Jim]

Note: for the resolution of this issue see this post

I would like to start of this post with a bit of a disclaimer. Giobikes.com is a sponsor of this website, and I am a moderator. My posts are my own experiences and opinions, and does not reflect the position of Chinariders.net. If anyone has concerns about this post, please refer to the usage guidelines for this forum.

As many of you may know, I have a Gio Beast atv I purchased used and am in the process of repairing. I haven't needed that many parts, however giobikes.com auctions seemed like a logical place for some of them to be sourced from. Mainly the carb and shocks.

I have read many posts on this forum relating to Giobikes.com and the level of service offered both by the company and the general manager John Dem. One of our other moderators, has had only positive experiences. Other members have had both positive and negative. In hindsight, it may have been foolish for me to disregard the negative experiences people have shared.

My first parts order for the beast was for the performance carb (and another carb for someone else). The carbs both arrived in good shape as far as I know, though the packaging was lacking. It has been my experience ordering parts from Gio that they are thrown loose into over sized boxes, allowing them to bounce around quite a bit during shipping. Some packing peanuts, or if Gio doesn't want to spend the money, crumpled up old newspaper would make the packing much better.

The next parts I needed to order were shocks. The gio beast performance shocks have been quite problematic for many of our members here. They are adjustable shocks with a nitrogen reserve. The problem is many of them seem to leak out all the nitrogen. The members who were having these issues were first posting about them in 2009. There did seem to be some hope that a new batch of shocks with black springs instead of red springs may be less likely to be defective.

Foolish me again, I figured with the positive reports I've heard of Gio, and the fact that it is now 2011, with the time being passed, Gio would have sorted out this problem, and not still be shipping out defective products. My shocks arrived, with red springs, and no nitrogen. They will not hold any pressure as it leaks out just as quickly as it goes in. I guess ordering these shocks from Gio was like gambling, and I lost. Chance was not on my side. I hoped Gio would be though. After all it appears to be the largest and most professional out of the Canadian China bike dealers, or at least that's the impression I get when I visit their website. I used the contact form on Giobikes.com to report the problem.

John got back to me pretty quick, and after a bit of back and forth we clarified what part I was talking about (even though the part and order number was included in the contact form, it appears to have been lost). John replied to me and told me he could send out a replacement set for a shipping and handling fee of $25. The shipping and handling on the original order was just over $16, but I guess he tacks on to the handling portion to recover some costs or something. I told him I've heard people had better luck with the black spring version, and I also told him I needed a clutch lever and asked him how much it would be if he could include it when he shipped out the shocks. John never told me how much it would be for the lever.

The shocks arrived. They arrived alone, and with red springs, and no nitrogen. I tried pumping them up, but again, the air comes out just as fast as it goes in. They are very clearly defective, and exactly the same as the original set that arrived. I now have $115 spent towards getting a set of shocks for my beast, and I do not have a set that functions properly.

I sent John another email as soon as I tested them after they arrived.

Hello John,

The replacement shocks arrived today, however they suffer from the same problem, they will not hold any pressure. Also there was no clutch lever (I know you didn't charge me for one, I was willing to pay extra for it, I was just hoping it could be shipped with the shocks).

Thanks,
Jim

To which John replied:

Hello Jim, I do not believe there is any issue with those shocks. We've been shipping them since summer and noone complained about this problem. We can understand maybe one issue but 2 in a raw is not acceptable. We will not be looking into this any further or shipping 3d set.

Thank you
John Dem
GIOBikes.com - General Manager

Now this is bringing up memories of what I read in the beast shock repair topic, where John claims no one has problems with the shocks. I'm sure many people just bolt them on and never check the pressure. Well if they are satisfied with that, it is up to them, I for one want what I paid for, not a defective version. I understand that we get what we pay for and much of the Chinese products on out machines is of lower quality, but this has been ongoing since 2009 and John is still shipping out defective shocks. I am not saying they are all defective, but that at least the 4 I received are, as well as the shocks received by Waynec, Waynev, and PCD to name a few. The information is available in the topic in the atv forum, as well as a reply from John himself stating the facotry will replace them (which seems to acknowledge that at least some of them must be defective).

The other part of the response seems to imply that I am lying to him to get free shocks, and he will not offer any further customer service to me. I'd like to add I did not receive any free shocks. At best, the replacement set cost me $9 plus shipping and handling since the fee is inflated on the warranty parts. If I received a functional set for replacements though I would have been ok with that.

After John's response, I was a little frustrated because I had chosen to have faith and give Giobikes.com the benefit of the doubt, and trust the positive reviews, rather then the negative ones. I ended up sending John 3 more emails before he responded to me.

John this is ridiculous. This is not a new issue. People have been receiving these defective shocks for over 2 years from you. The majority of them do not complain because they simply do not check the pressure and just bolt them on. Yet you still maintain that there's no problem, even though everyone who actually checks them seems to be receiving defective shocks, at least the shocks with the red springs. I am not trying to rip you off for free shocks, I am only trying to receive working shocks that I ordered and that I paid for, as they are advertised. Feel free to drive out to Abbotsford and visit me, and I can show you the shocks. Or maybe go to your warehouse and check your shocks for yourself, verify that they hold pressure, you know, as advertised and intended. From the experience other people have shared, they have much better getting non defective shocks when they are the model with the black springs. I wouldn't know, I got 2 sets with red springs, and they will not even hold 25 PSI. They say they aren't supposed to be used with less then100!. This is pretty unacceptable.

(over 2 years may not be factual, as that implies 2 full years, but the issue has been reported since at least 2009)

Sorry John, I would also like to reply to you with your own quote. "We can understand maybe one issue but 2 in a raw is not acceptable." I feel the exact same way, I am understanding that you may send me shocks where one set happens to be defective. But you didn't, you sent 2 sets and they are both defective. These shocks with the red springs have been giving people grief for over 2 years, and you have been made aware of the problem from many people, but you seem to keep sending them out. That is unacceptable. I don't know if your shocks with the black springs are from a different supplier but from everything I've heard they appear to be machined better, and they are much more likely to hold the pressure as they are intended to do. Again, many people likely just receive them and bolt them on, and never check the pressure. That doesn't mean they are functioning properly.

John, I'm not sure if you are planning on emailing me back or not. I would hope you are. The shocks I received for my order are defective. I then paid an inflated shipping and handling fee for replacement parts. They too are defective. These shocks will not even hold 25 PSI. Not one of the four shocks that I received. I understand you have sold many, and have not received complaints on many of them. I am also aware of many that you did receive complaints about. You even stated the factory will replace the defective products. The cases I am citing, with these performance shocks go back to 2009. I admit I may have been foolish to chance it and order from you, however I took faith and trusted that you would resolve the issue within the time frame, and not continue to sell defective products and advertise otherwise. I admire what you have done with the Gio brand and your website, I only hope that you offer the customer service and stand behind your products to back up all the hard work you have put into building the brand. I am not sure what you believe my intentions are, please let me make them clear. My intentions are not to rip you off for free shocks. I have a Gio Beast atv I am rebuilding and it is in need of shocks. I need one functional set of shocks for it. I want the shocks I ordered and paid for, as advertised. I could see this working one of two ways. One, someone there verifying before shipping that the shocks sent to me actually do hold their pressure and are not defective. The second option I see is for you to send me a UPS label to return the shocks to you, and you refunding me my money, so I can order a set of shocks from someone else. John I want to give you the chance to make this right, and I want to have faith in Gio to right. I want to be able to tell my friends with Chinese atv's and bikes that they can feel confident ordering from you. Currently I can't do that, but your actions from here on out will determine if it remains that way, or if I can tell them you will stand behind what you sell. Thank you for your time John, I await your reply.

I was frustrated with the situation and the way the service from Gio was going, and I am sure it is apparent in my emails, but I don't think I was rude or overly demanding either.

A day after I sent the last email John finally replied to me again.

I am pretty firm on my reply last time. We will not be shipping a 3d set. Will have to find a way to make them work as there was nothing wrong with the replacement set at the very least. My last reply on this issue.

Thank you
John Dem
GIOBikes.com - General Manager

I was waiting to see how things turned out before deciding how I was going to rule on Gio, but after my experience I can tell you I will not be ordering from them again. This site is sponsored by Gio, but I wanted to make my own personal experience and opinion with and of them known so others have more knowledge before deciding on who they take their business too.

With that last email apparently John is telling me he is more capable to troubleshoot the shocks from an hour away without looking at them or asking anything about them, then I am with them in hand. He also did not appear to take note of my comment that I would be perfectly happy sending him the defective shocks back for a refund.

I sent him one more email on the subject after his response, however I am not expecting a reply.

John I am very disappointed with your level of customer service. I have read both positive and negative reports of your level of service on China Riders, I shrugged off the bad, and have even defended GioBikes.com and recommended it, however I will no longer be able to do that. I don't know how you are qualified to tell me there was nothing wrong with the replacement set, did you test them before you sent them out? I can't see that as they arrived with no pressure in them, so I don't see how you could say they were holding pressure. It may be possible you do not understand how they are supposed to work, but then I would advise you to check with someone there who does. Both sets of shocks will not hold any pressure. I don't even want a third set, I want to send these defective products back to you for a refund and be done with them.

I will be sending John one more email, with a link to this topic. I still hope he will make this right, but I am not holding my breath.

Hello John I know you are done replying to me (though I hope you reconsider), but I just wanted to send you a link to the topic I created on China Riders detailing my experience with your company. I think I was fair and truthful and did not edit out any comments, or make any false statements.

http://chinariders.net/modules.php?n...topic&p=114749

Given that John refuses to offer any support, I've filed a complaint with the local Better Business Bureau. I have no experience with the BBB and don't know what to expect, but I want to try to resolve this, even if John doesn't.

Filed against :
Gio Bikes
11400 Twigg Pl
Richmond BC V6V 3C1

Complaint Description:
I purchased a set of performance nitrogen shocks from giobikes.com. They are defective and leak out any pressure as quick as it is put in. I paid a $25 inflated shipping and handling fee for a replacement set to be shipped to me. They are defective in the exact same manner as the original. John Dem the General Manager has told me he doesn't believe me and will not offer me any further support or respond to my emails. I've detailed the entire experience on this forum topic http://chinariders.net/modules.php?n...wtopic&t=11294

Your Desired Resolution:
I would like a refund of $115.62 that I have spent on the shocks, shipping, and replacement shocks, as well as a UPS return label to send the defective product back.

[Reveeen]

I will offer that John has always stepped up and made things "right" for me in the end, but as you can imagine it was more than a little work, on my part, to get there.

I *think*, living as close, as you do, a visit (with a box of defective shocks) might be in order?

I don't know.............. (I found shaming him get's the best results, I tried, and found "reasonable" not to work so well).

Sorry to hear of your troubles Jim................

[FastDoc]

Sorry to hear about your problem. I compliment you on your objective and professional post and explanation.

[Jim]

Thanks guys. As far as I am aware, Gio does not like to do business in person, and the address provided by the BBB may not even be accurate.

[SpudRider]

I'm sorry to hear of your problems with GioBikes, Jim. :( I think your expectations were entirely reasonable, and GioBikes owes you a total refund of your money. :evil: Please do keep us updated regarding the status of your complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Also, thank you for warning other potential customers about the questionable customer service provided by GioBikes.

Spud

[Jim]

The BBB said that for that location they are very busy and it could take up to 6 weeks before they can get to a complaint.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by Jim

The BBB said that for that location they are very busy and it could take up to 6 weeks before they can get to a complaint.

I'm sorry to hear that. :( I certainly hope John will communicate with you, and resolve this issue to your satisfaction.

Spud

[MICRider]

Edit:

After rereading my post, it looks like I was venting so I will revise it to say that John needs to work on his customer service.

Cheers,
Stew

[Jim]

Thanks for sharing your experiences Stew.

http://www.bbb.org/mbc/business-revi...ond-bc-1244182

A quick google search also reveals Gio Bikes has a rating of F from the BBB on a scale of A+ to F. Now there is not a lot of information there to accompany the rating, so it is up for interpretation I suppose.

I tried to post a review of the shocks on the Gio website, but their product reviews are held for moderation, so even though I don't have proof, it is my opinion that negative reviews are probably not posted. I guess time will tell.

[FastDoc]

Now there is not a lot of information there to accompany the rating, so it is up for interpretation I suppose.

In my book there are not a lot of ways to interpert 'F'.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by FastDoc

Now there is not a lot of information there to accompany the rating, so it is up for interpretation I suppose.

In my book there are not a lot of ways to interpert 'F'.

I couldn't have said it better myself, oh wise physician! :(

Spud

[Jim]

I agree, I'm only trying to be fair though.

[dsrt4]

This is pretty much what happend to me also.

I ordered a Exhaust system from them and paid what I thought was a premium for it and for shipping on it.

The Exhaust was sent in a box with no protection on any of the parts and the pipe and can literally Beat the snot out of each other all during shipping. The pipe was sticking out of the cheapo cardboard box when it came in.

I took plenty of pictures the day I got them and sent them to Gio and basicly got the run around until finally he told me to esentially Stuff it and nothing was going to be done about it. Nice..

I just chalked it up as a lifes lesson.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by dsrt4

This is pretty much what happend to me also.

I ordered a Exhaust system from them and paid what I thought was a premium for it and for shipping on it.

The Exhaust was sent in a box with no protection on any of the parts and the pipe and can literally Beat the snot out of each other all during shipping. The pipe was sticking out of the cheapo cardboard box when it came in.

I took plenty of pictures the day I got them and sent them to Gio and basicly got the run around until finally he told me to esentially Stuff it and nothing was going to be done about it. Nice..

I just chalked it up as a lifes lesson.

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience with GioBikes, Dsrt4. :( However, I thank you for warning others. I'm not getting a "warm fuzzy" feeling regarding the customer service at GioBikes. :roll:

Spud

[waynev]

I think after the "LIME" auctions started i kinda don't like going their anymore, i'm just glad i got all my stuff when things were good and the shipping rates were much. much better, i'm thinking it will only be parts that i really need if i'm buying there again.

Speaking of shipping rates, i think it's funny they have $20 Timmies gift cards on the lime auctions and the shipping is $16.76 to me, lol.