What would you change about the Hawk?

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by shawn66

What is the difference between the Hawk and CSC tt250 that makes the tt250 50 state certified?

Basically what Jeffrey said but it's a little more involved than that. They actually do testing and certifying here on live bikes at CARB. All that smog you see on the TT250 including the evap purge canister, extra port to the gas tank, air injection and all the other hoses and stuff that are on the TT250 that I don't believe live on the Hawk (maybe I'm wrong. Haven't seen one). It's not just the extra doo-dads and blingers on the TT250 that makes it more costly, it's really all the extra stuff the get it CARB approved that drives the price up. We here in CA are used to it. Then of course, the proper palm greasing is involved.

[tommy.]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

The HAWK maker didn't want to pay the C.A.R.B. fee.

2LZ is correct, it is a whole lot more then a fee and the hawk could never make C.A.R.B as sold today.

Still don't understand why RPS never got the NHTSA-FMVSS Sticker. The fee is low and certification is not hard.

[shawn66]

Does the TT250 use a push rod motor? No the Hawk does not have any kind of pollution control. They just starved it to death till they would let it in some states.

[shawn66]

Thanks Jeffrey, Not sure about the catalytic converter on the Hawk some say it has one but read one guy who said no. That he dropped a bolt through the head pipe and it went all the way trough. So who knows.

[culcune]

Most Chinese bikes are 49 state legal, which leaves out California. Ironic because the bikes are usually distributed out of So. Cal. Funny thing is, the distributors could get their bikes plated in California; meaning their own, personal bikes, and the plates would be distinguished as 'distributor'--which means they could not use a loophole to sell Californians cheap enduros one bike at a time.

Hawks are EPA certified as 'off road motorcycle' in 49 states, as based on the official EPA certified list. Technically, even the states that 'will not, could not, will you, won't you, plate it, sir, sam I am' (couldn't resist a Dr. Seuss moment) are supposed to allow it to be registered and used as an off-road bike (those states that title and/or register off-road bikes).

[shawn66]

The thing I most dislike about the Hawk is they are the most ticking little motors at idle I have ever heard. Even with the valves set right. I know a lose valve is a happy valve. Are all Hawk noisy? Or is it just mine?

[letsride]

My Brozz (same CG push rod engine) is so quiet (right now in stock trim) it is tickety tick tick going down the road. Even videos I watch of the hawk and such I can hear the rockers singing the tune. Just get a louder pipe

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by shawn66

The thing I most dislike about the Hawk is they are the most ticking little motors at idle I have ever heard. Even with the valves set right. I know a lose valve is a happy valve. Are all Hawk noisy? Or is it just mine?

Mine is happy tappy lol. When I fist cranked mine up it was so quiet and I knew that wasn't right. Sure enough when I checked the valves they had 0 clearance. Now it sounds like grand maws old sewing machine in a good way.

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by jeffrey

Yes the TT250 is a push rod motor. The HAWK just has a catalytic converter as far as I know.

That is correct and now it doesn't. Now it can breathe.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by culcune

Most Chinese bikes are 49 state legal, which leaves out California. Ironic because the bikes are usually distributed out of So. Cal. Funny thing is, the distributors could get their bikes plated in California; meaning their own, personal bikes, and the plates would be distinguished as 'distributor'--which means they could not use a loophole to sell Californians cheap enduros one bike at a time.

Hawks are EPA certified as 'off road motorcycle' in 49 states, as based on the official EPA certified list. Technically, even the states that 'will not, could not, will you, won't you, plate it, sir, sam I am' (couldn't resist a Dr. Seuss moment) are supposed to allow it to be registered and used as an off-road bike (those states that title and/or register off-road bikes).

Exactly like here. I bought my X-Moto, completely street legal regarding mirrors, lights, horn, etc....but it wouldn't pass the CARB to be able to be registered on the street. That doesn't mean that I couldn't get a Green Sticker for off-road though (at that time). I ditched the lights(thread here somewhere) and just road it legally as a dirt bike. It made a stellar trail bike for trail riding. I wonder if that same thing would work here in CA for the Hawk?

[culcune]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I wonder if that same thing would work here in CA for the Hawk?

I remember you documenting that bike. Seemed 'sad' that you had to do what you did, but it wasn't like you could ever get a plate for it.

There were loopholes in the mid-00's in which I would see plated Chinabikes sold on Craigslist in California. I remember a member here who lived in No. Calif. plating a Roketa and stating how easy it was and thought other California members were crazy or something (I am exaggerating a bit ) that they couldn't just walk into their local DMV office and plate their mail-order Chinabike. For comparison, it seems like it was similar to Georgia and the Hawk--several members here had no problems plating their Hawks in certain counties; the catch is, from what one member posted, you HAVE to use your local county's DMV, so one couldn't close the loophole by driving a little extra and using a nearby county's office. Anyway, back to California--they cracked down on all bikes that are Chinese (actually from everywhere because I remember reading how they were retroactively taking license plates back from KTM's and other plated Euro bikes mentioned on a different forum; Advrider or Thumpertalk)

The Hawk is a no-go, for now; according to the EPA off-road list, it is certified, and has been for a few years now, as '49 state'. I have a feeling that California would require the distributor to remove all street-legal equipment, which is a phenomenon I remember a few years ago. When the direct ancestor to the Hawk was the Hensim 250 Enduro, I do recall seeing a few on sites like Superiorpowersports and Powersportsmax as looking almost like their street-equipment GY200/GY250 cousins, but the holes for the headlight and the holes where turn signals would be were all one piece of plastic. The bikes looked a little funny, in other words. Rather than making them look like the Xmoto or the Apollo off-road bikes, they took all the streetable 'stuff' and used plastic that resembled what would be found on the street bikes. I think that might have been the DOT calling for that due to all the bikes that were supposed to be off-road only, but getting plates across the nation. Obviously, there must not be an issue like they (thought) they had anymore, because the Hawks are sailing right through, nowadays!! My guess is there were 'fudged' MCOs, however, back then. But the bottom line is--RPS is not even bothering with CARB off-road for the Hawk, so you guys 'need not apply!'

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by culcune

But the bottom line is--RPS is not even bothering with CARB off-road for the Hawk, so you guys 'need not apply!'

Thanks for the thorough info, culcune. Spot on as usual.
I was wondering. As the years tick by, we get allowed less...but again, it puts pressure on the dealers to sell us stuff they know that they can register because it's up to them. It's the one and only upside. For folks like CSC who braved the CARB testing, it opens an entire market full of cash and millions of people who will gladly buy from them and them only because of it.

[OUTERLIMITS]

Originally Posted by culcune

I remember you documenting that bike. Seemed 'sad' that you had to do what you did, but it wasn't like you could ever get a plate for it.

There were loopholes in the mid-00's in which I would see plated Chinabikes sold on Craigslist in California. I remember a member here who lived in No. Calif. plating a Roketa and stating how easy it was and thought other California members were crazy or something (I am exaggerating a bit ) that they couldn't just walk into their local DMV office and plate their mail-order Chinabike. For comparison, it seems like it was similar to Georgia and the Hawk--several members here had no problems plating their Hawks in certain counties; the catch is, from what one member posted, you HAVE to use your local county's DMV, so one couldn't close the loophole by driving a little extra and using a nearby county's office. Anyway, back to California--they cracked down on all bikes that are Chinese (actually from everywhere because I remember reading how they were retroactively taking license plates back from KTM's and other plated Euro bikes mentioned on a different forum; Advrider or Thumpertalk)

The Hawk is a no-go, for now; according to the EPA off-road list, it is certified, and has been for a few years now, as '49 state'. I have a feeling that California would require the distributor to remove all street-legal equipment, which is a phenomenon I remember a few years ago. When the direct ancestor to the Hawk was the Hensim 250 Enduro, I do recall seeing a few on sites like Superiorpowersports and Powersportsmax as looking almost like their street-equipment GY200/GY250 cousins, but the holes for the headlight and the holes where turn signals would be were all one piece of plastic. The bikes looked a little funny, in other words. Rather than making them look like the Xmoto or the Apollo off-road bikes, they took all the streetable 'stuff' and used plastic that resembled what would be found on the street bikes. I think that might have been the DOT calling for that due to all the bikes that were supposed to be off-road only, but getting plates across the nation. Obviously, there must not be an issue like they (thought) they had anymore, because the Hawks are sailing right through, nowadays!! My guess is there were 'fudged' MCOs, however, back then. But the bottom line is--RPS is not even bothering with CARB off-road for the Hawk, so you guys 'need not apply!'

I think the best case scenario right now, if you want one in California, is to register it with both your name and the name of a relative or friend that lives in another state that will allow it. You would register it in that state, insure it in that state, but ride it in California. If ever stopped, you explain that you are co-owners and it is registered with your relative/friend's address info. Technically you are both co-owners in different states and you have to pick one state or the other so you chose his for easier registering purposes.

[culcune]

California is pretty strict with vehicle registration. More so if you have a California license and are driving around in another state-plated vehicle. Yes, it could work, in theory, but I think California has closed many loopholes and would ruin your day one day when you least expected it. I have read on different forums where people had Arizona plated vehicles, like UTVs and ATVs, in their pickups while visiting California, and have been talked to by zealous officers warning them to not even take them off the truck! However, I do remember a member here from Indiana who had a TMEC 200. He moved to N. California, and was able to plate his bike there. My friend who owns Excalibur Motorsports told me the same thing--if I, an Arizona resident, had my TMEC for at least 6 months, and moved to California, I could plate my bike there, too. Could this work if you are a California resident, bought a bike out of state and had a friend or relative keep it for you for 6 months, and then you bring it to California? I don't know, but I would be willing to try this out for someone.

[2LZ]

I'm not sure of the specifics but if you, for example,....move from Chicago to CA, they only give you about a month to get your new CA plates. Again, I'm not sure of the exact timeline but it's not much. It happened to a friend of mine. She wanted to keep her ILL plates but had to surrender them.