Setup, Tuning and Tweaking

waynec · 11-17-2009, 05:25 PM

It seems to me there are a great many questions I have had.... and keep having about my Gio that causes me to rifle through post after post after post trying to remember where I saw this or that.
Here is a link to a similar machine (Cyclone) that offers the basics in troubleshooting. This site also has assembly instructions and a parts diagram in PDF for a near identical machine to 'the beast'.

http://www.offroaddirect.ca/instruct...leshooting.pdf

If others were inclined to share what they have leaned in this one easy to find spot the new buyer could save a lot of time... waynec

waynec · 11-17-2009, 05:30 PM

My recent concern has been over tire pressire. I read somewhere that 10psi was recommended in order to avoid spinning the bead in the rim. So...all my tires are at 10psi right now. The fear of losing the seal really only applies to the rear...for reasons of torque anyway.... Should I reduce my front pressure?
This Cyclone machine recommends between 4.5 and 5 psi. for the exact same tire.

What is anyone else running??

Waynec

Turnburn99 · 11-17-2009, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynec

My recent concern has been over tire pressire. I read somewhere that 10psi was recommended in order to avoid spinning the bead in the rim. So...all my tires are at 10psi right now. The fear of losing the seal really only applies to the rear...for reasons of torque anyway.... Should I reduce my front pressure?
This Cyclone machine recommends between 4.5 and 5 psi. for the exact same tire.

What is anyone else running??

Waynec

I'm not going to argue about using 10 psi, but it seems excessive to me, unless you are setting the bead. We usually use half that. First bike I ever used was back in 1982 on a yamaha, but even back then we only ran about 5 psi. Mind you that was back in the day of no suspension and if you ran higher pressures in the tires, you had a rougher ride. The only time we knocked a bead off was when we had a little upset and usually the tire bead was the least of the problems!

TurboT · 11-17-2009, 05:54 PM

I can tell you my 2004 YZ 250 F has 12-15PSi recommendation right on the frame. However these are tubed tires and not tubeless like what is on the Beast.

I think it comes down to where you feel comfortable with the ride for yourself. There has been some issues with the beasts blowing the beads off the tires. Both W&G and my Beast had issues there, and we've since had tubes installed to avoid this.

waynec · 11-17-2009, 06:03 PM

First....
Beast NGK plug #dr8es-l; Can Tire inv# 018-3928-6
Yam swing arm bush # 307-22123-00
Uni filter # up4182ast

My local tire guru advises not running a tube as a puncture in a tube tire goes flat in seconds. The same damage to a tubless will often get you home. I have 3 atv's and run both ways depending on the rim condition....waynec

Weldangrind · 11-18-2009, 02:17 AM

Good idea on this thread, waynec.

I couldn't make it around my backyard on less than 10psi. At 10psi I almost completed a Poker Run last spring, but the tire eventually popped off. Installed tubes, problem over.

I've learned a few other things about the Beast, inaddition to the points you made:
- Replace the o-rings in the upper steering bearing to eliminate play. Also drill and tap the lower tube for a zerk fitting to make lubrication easy. Either shim a castle nut so it lines up with the hole or double-nut to prevent steering shaft bolt loss.
- Don't even ride the quad with the stock front shocks, it's too hard on the control arm bushings.
- Don't mount the front shocks in the upper mounting hole, or you're in bumpsteer territory.
- Install a fuel shutoff valve inline. Replace the fuel line and filter with quality parts.
- If you choose to use the kill switch to shut the engine off, you must press it in once to reset it.
- Lube the brake cables, throttle cable, choke cable and clutch cable; totally worth it. I use Maxima Chain Wax with a cable luber.
- Install shims to correct the difference between the swingarm and the axle mounting brackets. Mine was over 1/4" out. Washers are the hillbilly way (although effective), but I chose to cut spacers from DOM tubing.
- Toss the stock chain in the trash and install an RK or DID chain. Lube it with Maxima Chain Wax.
- Replace the rear axle bearings with sealed bearings, and drill and tap the rearend housing for a zerk fitting and pump the rearend full of grease. The grease does nothing for the sealed bearings, it only displaces water to protect the housing, bearings and axle.
- Re-route the throttle cable around the right side of the tank to allow for a smooth radius into the carb.
- Install the Mikuni carb and a performance exhaust.
- Port the exhaust pipe where it meets the head.

That's all that comes to mind for now.

TurboT · 11-18-2009, 02:29 AM

I should point out that W&G also recommends a "double nut' setup on the swing arm bolt to avoid loosening and excessive movement of the swing arm.

Sorry D, read your post and remembered you mentioning it a few times, thought I'd share YOUR ideas, for you.

Weldangrind · 11-18-2009, 02:36 AM

Thanks for that. Feel free to bring up anything else I might've missed.

On the double-nut topic, remove the stock Nyloc, install a new (non-Nyloc) nut and then re-install the Nyloc as a double-nut. You can really use that setup to remove lateral slop from the swingarm.

TurboT · 11-18-2009, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

Thanks for that. Feel free to bring up anything else I might've missed.

On the double-nut topic, remove the stock Nyloc, install a new (non-Nyloc) nut and then re-install the Nyloc as a double-nut. You can really use that setup to remove lateral slop from the swingarm.

That was the only thing I remembered, other than what you covered.

I'm surprised you're not quoting the thread diameter, pitch and solid German engineered Wurth part number on the fasterners though.

Probably have them in stock..
8)

PCD · 11-18-2009, 01:08 PM

Most of the NGK DR8 class of plug will work. The "E" for example stands for extended electrode, plug is the same otherwise.

Drain the Chinese cooking oil from the engine before you try to start it. Fill with crummy oil and let run for 10 minutes then drain and put some half decent stuff in.

If you live in a cold climate DO NOT put 15W-40 in it, way too thick for cold weather.

Do not put synthetic in it. The friction modifiers dont do our wet clutchs any favors.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE BRAKE LEVER PULLED IN BEFORE TRYING TO START THE BIKE. The Beasts have a safety switch wired up to the brake lever. It will turn over but never start for you otherwise.

Cheack ALL CABLE ROUTING before starting the bike. The tab holding my brake light switch was bent over on the exhaust. I noticed this after 50% of it was melted.

The chain is going to stretch quickly. It will last you a litttle while but best to replace it as already mentioned, just keep an eye on it in the meantime.

Check your toe and camber. One of my wheels was out by an inch. There are quite a few links here showing how to adjust this. This bike is capable of at least 70kmh, check the steering for your own safety.

Dont waste 5 minutes of your time playing with the stock carb. The Performance Mikuni Carb that W&G mentioned earlier is the way to go. There are many posts here from people who have had idle and starting problems go away instantly after installing this carb. Again, do a search on Mikuni and you will find LOTS of information.

If you have a missing part, or something breaks (and you purchased for GIO) email them and ACT LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING. If you start out by telling him he sells crap, and demand this or that then you wont get far. If you calmly explain the problem, maybe attach a picture to your email if possible, then he will help you out. The SECOND you go on the attack GIO gets all defensive and certainly less accomodating.

Keep in mind these are not Honda's or Yamaha's. If you beat the daylights out of it with no maintenance, its going to break. Simple fact.
These items are 1/4 or less the price of a big brand name, treat it accordingly.

waynec · 11-18-2009, 01:41 PM

I have been struggling with my alignment. The bike wants to dart around something awful. I am trying to achieve no camber or toe in/out.

I just read an opinion that suggested zero toe is a nice goal...but it is more important to be certain you have no toe out. If it means you apply a little toe in it will make the steering a bit stiffer but will eliminate the darting symptom. He also suggests when riding on dirt this compromise will not result in really any additional tire wear. ...waynec

Turnburn99 · 11-18-2009, 01:42 PM

Keep in mind these are not Honda's or Yamaha's. If you beat the daylights out of it with no maintenance, its going to break. Simple fact.
These items are 1/4 or less the price of a big brand name, treat it accordingly.[/quote]

VERY WELL PUT!!!

11-17-2009, 05:25 PM	#1
waynec Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ottawa Posts: 119	Setup, Tuning and Tweaking It seems to me there are a great many questions I have had.... and keep having about my Gio that causes me to rifle through post after post after post trying to remember where I saw this or that. Here is a link to a similar machine (Cyclone) that offers the basics in troubleshooting. This site also has assembly instructions and a parts diagram in PDF for a near identical machine to 'the beast'. http://www.offroaddirect.ca/instruct...leshooting.pdf If others were inclined to share what they have leaned in this one easy to find spot the new buyer could save a lot of time... waynec
	0

11-18-2009, 02:17 AM	#6
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Good idea on this thread, waynec. I couldn't make it around my backyard on less than 10psi. At 10psi I almost completed a Poker Run last spring, but the tire eventually popped off. Installed tubes, problem over. I've learned a few other things about the Beast, inaddition to the points you made: - Replace the o-rings in the upper steering bearing to eliminate play. Also drill and tap the lower tube for a zerk fitting to make lubrication easy. Either shim a castle nut so it lines up with the hole or double-nut to prevent steering shaft bolt loss. - Don't even ride the quad with the stock front shocks, it's too hard on the control arm bushings. - Don't mount the front shocks in the upper mounting hole, or you're in bumpsteer territory. - Install a fuel shutoff valve inline. Replace the fuel line and filter with quality parts. - If you choose to use the kill switch to shut the engine off, you must press it in once to reset it. - Lube the brake cables, throttle cable, choke cable and clutch cable; totally worth it. I use Maxima Chain Wax with a cable luber. - Install shims to correct the difference between the swingarm and the axle mounting brackets. Mine was over 1/4" out. Washers are the hillbilly way (although effective), but I chose to cut spacers from DOM tubing. - Toss the stock chain in the trash and install an RK or DID chain. Lube it with Maxima Chain Wax. - Replace the rear axle bearings with sealed bearings, and drill and tap the rearend housing for a zerk fitting and pump the rearend full of grease. The grease does nothing for the sealed bearings, it only displaces water to protect the housing, bearings and axle. - Re-route the throttle cable around the right side of the tank to allow for a smooth radius into the carb. - Install the Mikuni carb and a performance exhaust. - Port the exhaust pipe where it meets the head. That's all that comes to mind for now. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

11-18-2009, 02:36 AM	#8
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Thanks for that. Feel free to bring up anything else I might've missed. On the double-nut topic, remove the stock Nyloc, install a new (non-Nyloc) nut and then re-install the Nyloc as a double-nut. You can really use that setup to remove lateral slop from the swingarm. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

11-18-2009, 01:08 PM	#10
PCD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Newmarket On Canada Posts: 382	Most of the NGK DR8 class of plug will work. The "E" for example stands for extended electrode, plug is the same otherwise. Drain the Chinese cooking oil from the engine before you try to start it. Fill with crummy oil and let run for 10 minutes then drain and put some half decent stuff in. If you live in a cold climate DO NOT put 15W-40 in it, way too thick for cold weather. Do not put synthetic in it. The friction modifiers dont do our wet clutchs any favors. MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THE BRAKE LEVER PULLED IN BEFORE TRYING TO START THE BIKE. The Beasts have a safety switch wired up to the brake lever. It will turn over but never start for you otherwise. Cheack ALL CABLE ROUTING before starting the bike. The tab holding my brake light switch was bent over on the exhaust. I noticed this after 50% of it was melted. The chain is going to stretch quickly. It will last you a litttle while but best to replace it as already mentioned, just keep an eye on it in the meantime. Check your toe and camber. One of my wheels was out by an inch. There are quite a few links here showing how to adjust this. This bike is capable of at least 70kmh, check the steering for your own safety. Dont waste 5 minutes of your time playing with the stock carb. The Performance Mikuni Carb that W&G mentioned earlier is the way to go. There are many posts here from people who have had idle and starting problems go away instantly after installing this carb. Again, do a search on Mikuni and you will find LOTS of information. If you have a missing part, or something breaks (and you purchased for GIO) email them and ACT LIKE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING. If you start out by telling him he sells crap, and demand this or that then you wont get far. If you calmly explain the problem, maybe attach a picture to your email if possible, then he will help you out. The SECOND you go on the attack GIO gets all defensive and certainly less accomodating. Keep in mind these are not Honda's or Yamaha's. If you beat the daylights out of it with no maintenance, its going to break. Simple fact. These items are 1/4 or less the price of a big brand name, treat it accordingly. __________________ Good, Fast, or Cheap....Pick Two.
	0

11-18-2009, 01:42 PM	#12
Turnburn99 Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Central Manitoba Posts: 43	Keep in mind these are not Honda's or Yamaha's. If you beat the daylights out of it with no maintenance, its going to break. Simple fact. These items are 1/4 or less the price of a big brand name, treat it accordingly.[/quote] VERY WELL PUT!!! __________________ Turnburn99 Go hard for two days, fix for five, then start over again!
	1

11-17-2009, 05:30 PM	#2
waynec Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ottawa Posts: 119	My recent concern has been over tire pressire. I read somewhere that 10psi was recommended in order to avoid spinning the bead in the rim. So...all my tires are at 10psi right now. The fear of losing the seal really only applies to the rear...for reasons of torque anyway.... Should I reduce my front pressure? This Cyclone machine recommends between 4.5 and 5 psi. for the exact same tire. What is anyone else running?? Waynec
	0

11-17-2009, 05:54 PM	#4
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	I can tell you my 2004 YZ 250 F has 12-15PSi recommendation right on the frame. However these are tubed tires and not tubeless like what is on the Beast. I think it comes down to where you feel comfortable with the ride for yourself. There has been some issues with the beasts blowing the beads off the tires. Both W&G and my Beast had issues there, and we've since had tubes installed to avoid this.
	0

11-17-2009, 06:03 PM	#5
waynec Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ottawa Posts: 119	First.... Beast NGK plug #dr8es-l; Can Tire inv# 018-3928-6 Yam swing arm bush # 307-22123-00 Uni filter # up4182ast My local tire guru advises not running a tube as a puncture in a tube tire goes flat in seconds. The same damage to a tubless will often get you home. I have 3 atv's and run both ways depending on the rim condition....waynec
	0

11-18-2009, 02:29 AM	#7
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	I should point out that W&G also recommends a "double nut' setup on the swing arm bolt to avoid loosening and excessive movement of the swing arm. Sorry D, read your post and remembered you mentioning it a few times, thought I'd share YOUR ideas, for you.
	0

11-18-2009, 01:41 PM	#11
waynec Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ottawa Posts: 119	I have been struggling with my alignment. The bike wants to dart around something awful. I am trying to achieve no camber or toe in/out. I just read an opinion that suggested zero toe is a nice goal...but it is more important to be certain you have no toe out. If it means you apply a little toe in it will make the steering a bit stiffer but will eliminate the darting symptom. He also suggests when riding on dirt this compromise will not result in really any additional tire wear. ...waynec
	0