Fast Doc's 'new' 1968 BSA 441 Victor! - Page 3

Weldangrind · 06-21-2011, 10:19 AM

So, is the displacement 441cc?

FastDoc · 06-21-2011, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weldangrind

So, is the displacement 441cc?

You bet! :P

Reveen, I'm sure you're giving me good advise. Is far as keeping it all original that's not much of a factor. I already found out the seat, fenders, and paint colr are all wrong. Since it would not be worth it to replace/restore it to original, I'm happy with an original looking rider. Since as all you guys know I ride a lot, mechanical improvements that can't be readilly seen are worthwhile.

It started on the second kick this AM, and rides fine, so as long as it's working I won't touch it. When I have issues I'll look into the upgrades.

SpudRider · 06-21-2011, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reveeen

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

One possible upgrade to think about.... A buddy of mine has a cherry 1970 Triumph Tiger. First thing he did was replace the points and condensor and put in an electronic ignition conversion kit. No more worries.

Copy that. Right now the bike is well tuned with new points. When they are worn (tomorrow? :roll: ) I'll upgrade to electronic ignition. When the Amal (a fresh rebuild, by the way) is worn out I'd look into a Mikuni conversion. When my right leg is worn out I'll look into a Japanese bike with an electric starter!

After a hundred mile ride those points could do with "setting", and the Amal shipped from the factory NAWO (new all worn out). Contrary to popular *thought*, your right leg will not wear out, but will develop curious "lumps and bumps" (specifically just above your right heel).

The electronic ignition conversion will do away with the points, but most importantly it does away with the mechanical ignition advancer, which is likely sticking.
If your ignition advancer isn't "sticking" it: 1) is about to, and 2) is the only one on the planet that isn't.
Point sets, at least the currently available for purchase point sets, vary widely in quality. It is most important that the points cam be lubed as I have seen the plastic/phenolic rubbing blocks wear out in as little as 500 miles.

Changing out the Amal for a carburetor that "works" will make a "night and day" difference to that, or any, English bike. Doesn't have to be a Mikuni, could be a vacuum Keihin (1/2 of a pair on an old Honda twin), virtually ANYTHING you have hanging about will "work" better.

But you know, at the end of the day, it's your bike. I suggest these things, as things to keep your eyes peeled for (for purchase at the "right price"), to improve your "British experience". The replaced parts can be carefully stored in a box/container to be passed on to the next owner. These changes are not one way, you, or someone else, can easily go back to original.

Now, for that gearshift on the right side: the right side is the "proper" place for a gear shift to "live", maybe you can get a conversion for your Honda to put that right?

How did the Japanese motorcycle manufacturers ever supplant the British? :roll:

Spud

FastDoc · 06-21-2011, 12:41 PM

I took the BSA to work today. It started on the second kick, and did not soil my white pants either. Gosh this relic is fun.

There was NO WAY in heaven or earth that the British could have survived the invasion of the Japanese motorcycle industry in general, Honda in particular, with the extremely outdated technology and manufacturing they were producing at the time.

When they saw the CB750-4 introduced, I'm sure that the Brits all dropped their tools and looked for different jobs. Then they rode their Hondas to those new jobs.

Reveeen · 06-21-2011, 02:32 PM

Legacy, legacy and no new development money.......

What you have there is a BSA "unit single" designed in 1958 as a 250. With limited funds for new product development the 1958 design was improved and enlarged. Built in workshops, with tools/tooling, in many cases predating WW1.

Japanese industry, on the other hand, has no history (or very limited history) before 1945. Combined with the generous donation of re-construction funds/tooling from the US they were set to dominate any market they desired to dominate. With low production costs, free financing, and no (0) legacy costs, they were laughing all the way to the bank (and did).

Currently the Japanese are suffering just like the British before them (and American industry). They are suffering from "legacy costs". You open plants to manufacture, your workers bargain for pensions and health care, get them, and you pay for these things long past any employee usefulness, adding to the general unit cost of your production.

There are none of these costs in 3rd world countries, and we are seeing investors flocking to those places to invest, and companies closing down here (or in Japan) to manufacture there.

FastDoc · 06-21-2011, 02:40 PM

Very interesting perspective and analysis. Intersting history lesson too. It seems the US auto industry stands to gain by paying attention to the British motorcycle industry.

SpudRider · 06-21-2011, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

Very interesting perspective and analysis. Intersting history lesson too. It seems the US auto industry stands to gain by paying attention to the British motorcycle industry.

Indeed; thank you, Reveeen.

The U.S. automobile industry is also a victim of it's own greed. Corporate greed, greed from the Autoworkers Union, inattention to quality control, and arrogance all combined to bring the inevitable downfall of Detroit. :(

Spud

Reveeen · 06-21-2011, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

It seems the US auto industry stands to gain by paying attention to the British motorcycle industry.

The part I really find interesting: if the North American governments had not bailed out GM/Chrysler I *think* you would have seen N. American manufacturing close down..... that is not to say: the dealers would close, because I don't feel they would have, they would just be selling their respective products made in other countries.

Ford never asked for, or received, any money, because their N. American operations are supported by worldwide operations. Their company structure is different.

Any company with huge legacy cost simply can't compete with a company with none. The steel industry is virtually non-existent in N. America due to huge legacy costs.

FastDoc · 06-21-2011, 04:12 PM

I think that America currently builds cars as good as anyone else in the world. In comfort, quality and performance and value. Witness supercars like the Corvette, Cadillac XLR, and the success of the humble Chevy Malibu and the Ford Fiesta (I know that's a 'world car').

The US auto industry took a mighty dive in the 70's and 80's, but has been coming back since then.

Its a shame and amazing and dangerous the US steel industry is dead. That's going to be a factor in the next war.

katoranger · 06-21-2011, 04:56 PM

The only domestic I will consider now is Ford.

Barnone · 06-21-2011, 06:08 PM

Just bought a new Dodge 1500 and it's a nice solid truck but back to Doc's BSA.

I never had a problem with the points ignition system or the Amal carburetor on my 1969 BSA. Parts vibrating off was another problem so keep your spanners handy.

Doc's BSA has 9k miles and is doing just fine so why change out the parts?

Might want to get one of these shirts that say" Honk if parts fall off"

FastDoc · 06-21-2011, 06:51 PM

The BritBike forum guys seem to all agree to leave well enough alone since it's working well.

Weldangrind · 06-21-2011, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FastDoc

...and did not soil my white pants either.

Congratulations on not soiling your pants.

If the displacement is 441cc, I wonder what the optimal Mikuni size would be? Any insight on the Brit bikes forum about that? The reason I ask is that a Mikuni 30mm seems to feed a 200cc Chinese Honda clone very well, and I'm curious about how to apply that to 441cc. I presume there's a formula for that; there is for cars, because car carbs are rated in CFM.

FastDoc · 06-21-2011, 11:37 PM

The Brit Bike forum guys are very opposed, it turns out, to such modifications. They like their bikes more or less original. Even electronic ignitions seems controversial over there...

Barnone,

I have a lady friend with shorts like those. Just gotta get her the shirt now...

Barnone · 06-22-2011, 08:38 AM

FD,
I found some shirts like that on the net but they all have the lettering on the front. Obviously the designers don't understand the ways of Brit and China bikes. The people behind you need the message.
Of course if I saw a lady that fit those short properly going by on a bike, I would probably fail to read the message anyway.

06-21-2011, 10:19 AM	#31
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	So, is the displacement 441cc? __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

06-21-2011, 12:41 PM	#34
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	I took the BSA to work today. It started on the second kick, and did not soil my white pants either. Gosh this relic is fun. There was NO WAY in heaven or earth that the British could have survived the invasion of the Japanese motorcycle industry in general, Honda in particular, with the extremely outdated technology and manufacturing they were producing at the time. When they saw the CB750-4 introduced, I'm sure that the Brits all dropped their tools and looked for different jobs. Then they rode their Hondas to those new jobs. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

06-21-2011, 02:40 PM	#36
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	Very interesting perspective and analysis. Intersting history lesson too. It seems the US auto industry stands to gain by paying attention to the British motorcycle industry. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

06-21-2011, 04:12 PM	#39
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	I think that America currently builds cars as good as anyone else in the world. In comfort, quality and performance and value. Witness supercars like the Corvette, Cadillac XLR, and the success of the humble Chevy Malibu and the Ford Fiesta (I know that's a 'world car'). The US auto industry took a mighty dive in the 70's and 80's, but has been coming back since then. Its a shame and amazing and dangerous the US steel industry is dead. That's going to be a factor in the next war. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

06-21-2011, 06:51 PM	#42
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	The BritBike forum guys seem to all agree to leave well enough alone since it's working well. __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

06-21-2011, 02:32 PM	#35
Reveeen Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: orbital platform Posts: 741	Legacy, legacy and no new development money....... What you have there is a BSA "unit single" designed in 1958 as a 250. With limited funds for new product development the 1958 design was improved and enlarged. Built in workshops, with tools/tooling, in many cases predating WW1. Japanese industry, on the other hand, has no history (or very limited history) before 1945. Combined with the generous donation of re-construction funds/tooling from the US they were set to dominate any market they desired to dominate. With low production costs, free financing, and no (0) legacy costs, they were laughing all the way to the bank (and did). Currently the Japanese are suffering just like the British before them (and American industry). They are suffering from "legacy costs". You open plants to manufacture, your workers bargain for pensions and health care, get them, and you pay for these things long past any employee usefulness, adding to the general unit cost of your production. There are none of these costs in 3rd world countries, and we are seeing investors flocking to those places to invest, and companies closing down here (or in Japan) to manufacture there.
	0

06-21-2011, 04:56 PM	#40
katoranger Join Date: May 2007 Location: Altamont, Kansas Posts: 15,103	The only domestic I will consider now is Ford.
	0

06-21-2011, 06:08 PM	#41
Barnone Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,348	Just bought a new Dodge 1500 and it's a nice solid truck but back to Doc's BSA. I never had a problem with the points ignition system or the Amal carburetor on my 1969 BSA. Parts vibrating off was another problem so keep your spanners handy. Doc's BSA has 9k miles and is doing just fine so why change out the parts? Might want to get one of these shirts that say" Honk if parts fall off"
	0

06-21-2011, 11:37 PM	#44
FastDoc Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Southeastern Washington desert Posts: 14,761	The Brit Bike forum guys are very opposed, it turns out, to such modifications. They like their bikes more or less original. Even electronic ignitions seems controversial over there... Barnone, I have a lady friend with shorts like those. Just gotta get her the shirt now... __________________ Happy to serve.
	0

06-22-2011, 08:38 AM	#45
Barnone Join Date: Feb 2007 Posts: 1,348	FD, I found some shirts like that on the net but they all have the lettering on the front. Obviously the designers don't understand the ways of Brit and China bikes. The people behind you need the message. Of course if I saw a lady that fit those short properly going by on a bike, I would probably fail to read the message anyway.
	0