Getin' Low.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by nij_tp

Dan, when you say 300-310 mm for standard ish height but you went 280 fast ace shock, 1) do you have a link or can you tell me hole sizes (top and bottom (or are they standard) 2) what Spring did you go with or was it a package, I know your height and weight come into play.
Thanks again
P.S re-registered the hawk yesterday and got a sticker today (rear brake light didnt work but the guy just adjusted the nut whilst he was there. so job done. Took it for a spin around the local closed cinema parking lot. Going to do that again tomorrow, build my confidence. Not sure how granny riding is going to mess up the breaking in as I am not confident enough on the road yet to realistically do that, oh well 1st world problems!

I went with a 280mm shock specifically with the intent of lowering the bike. Since the brozz swing arm mounts the shock higher up, it would effectively raise the back of the bike about an inch higher than stock. Combine that with the already half inch of lift I had from the previous shock.... you get the idea lol. I decided to drop the back at least two or three inches to change the chassis dynamics and rider triangle. Since I know from Oneleggedrider's experience with a 290mm shock lowering the back of his bike 3 inches, and that the ratio of length to ride height is roughly 2 to 1, and the Brozz would raise the bike up about an inch, and then subtracting my extra half inch of height, I went 10mm shorter than he did to get the same height. A 3 inch drop is honestly about the limit for these bikes in my opinion. Any more than that and you start to risk limited wheel travel.

My goal is to favor the "street" side of dual sport a bit more, and just make it a better daily road bike, but keep it moderately capable of the kinds of dirt paths I go down, none of which need massive ground clearance.

The shock needs to have 10mm eyelets at both ends for the bolts, but on top of that you will need spacers to mount the shock as the ends are narrower than the factory shock. The shock I just replaced and this fast ace shock had the same width on both ends so my spacers carried over. I needed two 10mm wide spacers on the bottom, and two 5mm wide spacers up top for mine.

In both shocks case the springs were pre installed. The old shock had a spring rated at 1200lb/in. My new shock is rated at 1000lb/in. Fast Ace makes several variations of the shock I am using, with spring rates as low as 250lb/in up to 1000lb/in that I could find. Supposedly there is a 1200lb spring option out there, but I couldn't find it.

The stock shock is 320mm, but unlike the two shocks I have used, it is a dual rate spring, with a very soft initial rate that allows for some sag under the bikes own weight, and then it quickly gets taken up until the secondary rate is hit, which is 1200lb/in like the shock I bought. The big difference being that my shock was a single rate 1200lb/in, so there was no soft rate for it to sag. Then add in the fact that my shock was a few mm longer than the stock shock, it sat VERY high, almost too high for the side stand. Even after I dialed in my preload for proper rider sag.

I think the 1000lb/in rate is a better compromise for a single rate spring when replacing the stock dual rate, especially when paired with a very effective damper like the Fast Ace has. Much better control on both compression and rebound.

[nij_tp]

Dan,

Thank you for this detailed explanation.

[Megadan]

So, now that the bike is back together and more or less setup how it should be I can weigh in on the changes.

For starters, and I don't know why, I did have to remove two links from my 520 chain. Not a big deal, just a potential change to be aware of if you decide to do this conversion. I even took a picture of my chain before I removed said two links just as evidence of of much slack I had when the axle was all the way forward.




Now, moving on to the changes I want to start with the shock itself. It cost less than the Keoghs shock I ordered from Aliexpress and in terms of quality and functionality is in a whole different world. I almost wish there was a retailer we could order this shock in lengths specific to these bikes. The rebound adjustment is highly functional, and I got it dialed in almost perfectly within a couple of adjustments. Compression damping is almost perfect as well.

In regards to the 1000lb spring rate. I was nervous that it would not be enough for my weight if I hit the right kind of bump/depression. So, I actively went out to hit a couple of bumps that I have bottomed out an original Hawk rear shock on. Not only did I hit them, I hit them harder than I did on said original shock, and not one problem emerged. Quite pleased. I am a Fast Ace believer now.

Comfort level is off the charts improved. If it wasn't for the stock seat foam being too soft I feel like I could ride my Hawk for hours cross country.

Handling and braking are also surprisingly much better. Not only just because of the rear shock, but I also think that the weight shift to the rear tire and off of the front has helped balance the bike more. Cornering is much more confident and stable feeling. Hard braking also results in a lot less nose dive than before, again, the shift in weight distribution has likely played a big role in this.

I can honestly say that I think this upgrade has turned my Hawk into a very road competent dual sport that can still handle some mild off roading action without much issue.

[Megadan]

I took a few pictures to show the stance. Forgive the fact that they are in the dark under a lamp lol. Ran out of daylight.

[OneLeggedRider]

Everything you said there about handling braking and cornering is spot on. Jay's Hawk still has the stock suspension other than 185ml of ATF in each fork (no added spacers), and he still prefers the way mine rides. He's considering dropping the rear 2" rather than 3", which should net him the best of both worlds.

Also I think you're selling it short as far as offroad capability. If you had seen some of the places my Hawk has been (ofcourse I've got better tires, Trakmaster baby) and crossing deep rocky creeks. The last time we were out it was a muddy mess with wet leaves on top. We climbed a 5 stage hill, rearends fishtailing all the way, and made it halfway up the 5th stage before Jay panicked and slowed down too much (newb mistake) and the trail was so narrow I couldn't find a clean line around him. Also I think the stance is better for crossing logs at speed, making it easier to take the weight off the front end as you hit the log.

[cycleway4]

Besides all of the actual technical and practical improvements you mention,...I just like the look a whole lot better...it sets really well.

[nij_tp]

Dan,

This is probaby me being super lazy and also a little hesitant, when you get 5-10 mins would you mind adding a link to the shock you used. As I said this is probably a little LMGTFY (https://lmgtfy.com/) but as always thanks in advance.

Nij

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by cycleway4

Besides all of the actual technical and practical improvements you mention,...I just like the look a whole lot better...it sets really well.

I agree. Something about that stance just works.

Originally Posted by nij_tp

Dan,

This is probaby me being super lazy and also a little hesitant, when you get 5-10 mins would you mind adding a link to the shock you used. As I said this is probably a little LMGTFY (https://lmgtfy.com/) but as always thanks in advance.

Nij

There is no link I can provide to the Amazon listing I bought mine from. The best I could find was this one on ebay which is 20 bucks more than what i paid for mine.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/BDA-01AR-BS...8AAOSwcDdcR6W2

Just be aware that I would not recommend using that shock on a Hawk or tbr7 without the Brozz swing arm. Otherwise your bike will sit even lower than mine.

[paulsstag]

Your bike looks great, clean too.

Do you have any miles on the header wrap?
Are you going to wrap back near the airbox and frame area?

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by paulsstag

Your bike looks great, clean too.

Do you have any miles on the header wrap?
Are you going to wrap back near the airbox and frame area?

Header wrap has been on since day 1. Its dei titanium wrap so it holds up really well. In my case there is no need to wrap around the air box as mine is hacked up (see first pictures)

The bike looks clean because I hosed it off a bit after I finished working on it.

[Megadan]

I got around to putting the bike on the center stand I can officially give a close estimate on how much the bike has lowered with this shock and swing arm combination (at the axle centerline)

From the factory shock on a factory swing arm, almost exactly 2 3/4 inches.

Keoghs Shock and Factory swing arm, 3 1/4 inches ( I had to put a piece of 3/4" plywood under the stand to get the tire off the ground ).

On the plus side, it is nice to be able to use my center stand again. On the downside, it's a little bit too long now lol. I don't feel the need to shorten it though. It just takes a bit more work to get it up on the stand. I may actually install it permanently now once I get up enough willpower to fight with that spring. I didn't bother before because it was too short and I didn't feel like carrying wood around in case I needed it.

Now that I have also had a chance to take it on a couple of unpaved adventures I can also say that the shock and spring combo still perform beautifully.

[OneLeggedRider]

Did the Brozz swingarm not come with a chain guard? 🤔

And I agree, that stance does look really good. 😉

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Did the Brozz swingarm not come with a chain guard? 🤔

And I agree, that stance does look really good. 😉

It does when you order the kit, but since I ordered the swing arm before the kits were thrown together, I didn't order the guard at the time. Once I verified the fitment and what parts were needed the kit came into being.

Thankfully, Jeffery send me one for free fifty because he is an awesome stand up guy. Honestly, the Brozz chain guard, while still just plastic, is a heck of a lot more sturdy than the Hawk one. That's kind of a theme on the differences overall. Still budget minded parts, but just that next level up.

[OneLeggedRider]

Yeah I went back and looked at the pics and saw the mounting tabs. Actually might look more like a dirtbike if ya cut the tabs off and hit the nubs with a little touch up paint.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Yeah I went back and looked at the pics and saw the mounting tabs. Actually might look more like a dirtbike if ya cut the tabs off and hit the nubs with a little touch up paint.

Nah, I have the guard now. I actually like how it looks honestly. I never ran the Hawk one because it was a flimsy flat crappy thing that tended to fall over into the chain, and it just wasn't much of a guard. The Brozz one is pretty decent.