Hooper taking legal action against American Lifan? - Page 3

TeamCheap · 08-22-2008, 09:34 PM

The whole thing is a mess if you ask me.

Its as if china lifan was willing to sell to most anybody who could come up with the cash for a container but the american lifan division pushed for exclusive use of the china lifan products here in north America.

Or maybe there was even more to it than that.

I wonder just how in the hell our bikes have a sticker with american lifan on it.Pretty much a big mess to me.

IronFist · 08-22-2008, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winwun

I'm old, I'm slow, and in a lot of cases, I'm just plain stupid, but this whole thing has my head spinning.

Let me see if I can sort it out:

1. There is a company in China named Lifan.

2. Lifan exports to anyone with whom they can strike a deal.

3. There is a company in the U.S. named American Lifan, an importer.

4. There are other American companies (Hooper, et al) who also import Lifan.

If the above assumptions are correct, then isn't it a lot like First Baptist Church Of Chicago saying that if you aren't a member of their church, then you can't be a Baptist ?

I'm not trying to troll the thread, the above is a sincere attempt to clarify the situation in order to understand it myself, as I am presently attempting to purchase a Lifan product.

Faulty Premise: It is an Invalid Arguement. I break their rice bowl. :P

tcs · 08-25-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maf119l

actually Hoopers suit included American Lifan Industry Inc, Chongqing Lifan Industry (Group) Co Ltd and Bob Yang.

And I hear the sound of a rice bowl breaking. I wonder what brand Hooper will sell next year?

tcs

tcs · 08-25-2008, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim

As far as I understand other importers were also illegally using American Lifan's EPA certificates.

For proof of this, you need go no further than Hooper's web site, which as of this morning still has a picture of the EPA sticker on their bikes that reads "Imported by American Lifan".

tcs

Jim · 08-29-2008, 09:27 PM

I don't need proof, I'm not a lawyer... I was just stating what I understood, I have not verified any thing I have written and I try to be clear that I am only posting on the subject as far as my understanding of the topic... Ultimately, it makes no difference to me here in Canada.

mrhyak · 08-30-2008, 12:34 AM

Hooper Imports is about 30 miles from where I work. I've never met Larry, but have friends who have purchased bikes from him and say he is a very nice guy and honest. Larry was one of the first Chinese motorcycle importers in the USA going back about 7 years and could have been the first, or one of the first to introduce Lifan bikes to the American people.

The Lifan folks made agreements with Larry and w/o notice this past year to 18months have basically smeared his name in order to get market share, then I read others hear repeating what AL has been dishing out on the net about Hooper when it is not true. It think it really stinks and unfortunately AL has the cash to squash Larry in any court case he may face them in.

I hope Larry can get things going again weather with Lifan, or another supplier. Good dealers are hard to come by and I'd rather do business with Hooper Imports then people like Daves Deals on Wheels (local AL dealer about 10 miles from my house).

dsrt4 · 04-02-2009, 12:13 PM

I wonder whatever became of this? It looks like Larry is still selling the Lifan brand bikes???

Anyone have any more info?

culcune · 04-02-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsrt4

I wonder whatever became of this? It looks like Larry is still selling the Lifan brand bikes???

Anyone have any more info?

I had emailed Hooper a few months ago on behalf of a few companies that I think he should import and carry, and he wrote that he is not going to do anything until this is settled. He seems fairly sure that he is in the right. If I remember the original, infamous letter on the Lifan of China site, they did not mention Hooper, but I can see how Hooper could be made to feel fairly uncomfortable about being an importer/dealer, and having an insinuation that he is merely a grey-bike dealer.

SeerAtlas · 04-03-2009, 11:41 AM

What's missing in this story is that one of the major players in Lifan china has a relative who is the principal in American Lifan.....soooo, we have an insider family squeeze play going on here trying to usurp all the branding, promotion, and marketing that Larry has done for the name "Lifan" for the past seven years, effectively *stealing* the monetary value of that *good will* and transferring same to this fellow's relative.

Personally, on that set of facts, not to mention the damage that the issue is doing to Lifan in general, I think Larry wins, and Lifan looses in more ways than one. Someone once said that "business is war without guns, and in SOME businesses, WITH guns

In general, the chinese seem to have problems with the concepts of trademarks, copyright, and intellectual property

but this time, they're not in a chinese court, they're in an american court....and as for collecting any damages that might be awarded to Larry, he could have a US Marshall seize the inventory of American Lifan should he win.....

My guess is that this will settle assuming someone on the Lifan side is still mentally sound.

Seer

crossed · 04-03-2009, 06:57 PM

If Larry purchased his own EPA certs for his bikes then he deserves to sell just as much as anyone else. If he is using the EPA certs another company spent obscene amounts of money to buy then I don't see much difference in him and a grey sellers in that regard.

I just cant see this any other way.

maf119l · 04-06-2009, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

In general, the chinese seem to have problems with the concepts of trademarks, copyright, and intellectual property

but this time, they're not in a chinese court, they're in an american court....and as for collecting any damages that might be awarded to Larry, he could have a US Marshall seize the inventory of American Lifan should he win.....

My guess is that this will settle assuming someone on the Lifan side is still mentally sound.

Seer

Lifan and the American Lifan names are trademarks of Lifan China,not Hooper.It is China Lifans right to decide who can sell bikes under thier brand.From looking at Hoopers site it looked like they may have had a deal worked out at one point where he could continue selling the bikes under the rebranded name of Skygo.Now it looks like he is waiting on them to send him some more bikes.

mrhyak · 04-09-2009, 07:08 PM

Larry was selling Lifan bikes in the USA before American Lifan was around. Hooper took the risk and brought the Lifan bikes to the USA and showed there was a market for them. AL then slides in, takes over sole importation of Lifan bikes and trash talks the other importers of the same bikes.

I hope Larry kicks their a$$.

TeamCheap · 04-09-2009, 09:07 PM

Well where are the lifan bikes now ????

You dont see a whole lot of them around anymore so I'd say it was a stupid move...atleast in the short term.

Without the bikes being plastered all over the net I think lifan and their bikes will fade away unless they spend gobbs of cash on advertizing which costs money.
Where will that money come from?, china lifan and the sales of products in other countries untill they get a solid market here.(not likely)
Atleast when CHINA LIFAN was selling to everyone they were selling product and that money, some of it, could have went to help american lifan.I guess they couldnt do that though.

I hope Hooper gets through it on top.

Will lifan ever make a race worthy bike which could help sales drastically?

Win a BAJA race on a lifan and see the sales go up or a few motorcross races or motard races.Then people will know they are serious and take notice of them.

08-29-2008, 09:27 PM	#35
Jim Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Abbotsford, BC, Canada Posts: 4,880	I don't need proof, I'm not a lawyer... I was just stating what I understood, I have not verified any thing I have written and I try to be clear that I am only posting on the subject as far as my understanding of the topic... Ultimately, it makes no difference to me here in Canada. __________________ "Be excellent to each other" "We are all human. Let's start to prove it!"
	0

08-30-2008, 12:34 AM	#36
mrhyak Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyak, WA Posts: 448	Hooper Imports is about 30 miles from where I work. I've never met Larry, but have friends who have purchased bikes from him and say he is a very nice guy and honest. Larry was one of the first Chinese motorcycle importers in the USA going back about 7 years and could have been the first, or one of the first to introduce Lifan bikes to the American people. The Lifan folks made agreements with Larry and w/o notice this past year to 18months have basically smeared his name in order to get market share, then I read others hear repeating what AL has been dishing out on the net about Hooper when it is not true. It think it really stinks and unfortunately AL has the cash to squash Larry in any court case he may face them in. I hope Larry can get things going again weather with Lifan, or another supplier. Good dealers are hard to come by and I'd rather do business with Hooper Imports then people like Daves Deals on Wheels (local AL dealer about 10 miles from my house). __________________ 1985 Kawasaki Tecate-3 1997 Ural Sportsman 2WD 1980 Yamaha XS1100 2005 TANK Trail 200 2009 Lifan LY110GY-3 (2)
	0

04-03-2009, 11:41 AM	#39
SeerAtlas Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 770	Hooper vs. American Lifan What's missing in this story is that one of the major players in Lifan china has a relative who is the principal in American Lifan.....soooo, we have an insider family squeeze play going on here trying to usurp all the branding, promotion, and marketing that Larry has done for the name "Lifan" for the past seven years, effectively stealing the monetary value of that good will and transferring same to this fellow's relative. Personally, on that set of facts, not to mention the damage that the issue is doing to Lifan in general, I think Larry wins, and Lifan looses in more ways than one. Someone once said that "business is war without guns, and in SOME businesses, WITH guns In general, the chinese seem to have problems with the concepts of trademarks, copyright, and intellectual property but this time, they're not in a chinese court, they're in an american court....and as for collecting any damages that might be awarded to Larry, he could have a US Marshall seize the inventory of American Lifan should he win..... My guess is that this will settle assuming someone on the Lifan side is still mentally sound. Seer
	0

04-09-2009, 07:08 PM	#42
mrhyak Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Hyak, WA Posts: 448	Larry was selling Lifan bikes in the USA before American Lifan was around. Hooper took the risk and brought the Lifan bikes to the USA and showed there was a market for them. AL then slides in, takes over sole importation of Lifan bikes and trash talks the other importers of the same bikes. I hope Larry kicks their a$$. __________________ 1985 Kawasaki Tecate-3 1997 Ural Sportsman 2WD 1980 Yamaha XS1100 2005 TANK Trail 200 2009 Lifan LY110GY-3 (2)
	0

08-22-2008, 09:34 PM	#31
TeamCheap Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: directly under the earths sun............NOW Posts: 2,302	The whole thing is a mess if you ask me. Its as if china lifan was willing to sell to most anybody who could come up with the cash for a container but the american lifan division pushed for exclusive use of the china lifan products here in north America. Or maybe there was even more to it than that. I wonder just how in the hell our bikes have a sticker with american lifan on it.Pretty much a big mess to me.
	0

04-02-2009, 12:13 PM	#37
dsrt4 Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 267	I wonder whatever became of this? It looks like Larry is still selling the Lifan brand bikes??? Anyone have any more info?
	0

04-03-2009, 06:57 PM	#40
crossed Join Date: May 2008 Location: Ashland Ky Posts: 41	If Larry purchased his own EPA certs for his bikes then he deserves to sell just as much as anyone else. If he is using the EPA certs another company spent obscene amounts of money to buy then I don't see much difference in him and a grey sellers in that regard. I just cant see this any other way.
	0

04-09-2009, 09:07 PM	#43
TeamCheap Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: directly under the earths sun............NOW Posts: 2,302	Well where are the lifan bikes now ???? You dont see a whole lot of them around anymore so I'd say it was a stupid move...atleast in the short term. Without the bikes being plastered all over the net I think lifan and their bikes will fade away unless they spend gobbs of cash on advertizing which costs money. Where will that money come from?, china lifan and the sales of products in other countries untill they get a solid market here.(not likely) Atleast when CHINA LIFAN was selling to everyone they were selling product and that money, some of it, could have went to help american lifan.I guess they couldnt do that though. I hope Hooper gets through it on top. Will lifan ever make a race worthy bike which could help sales drastically? Win a BAJA race on a lifan and see the sales go up or a few motorcross races or motard races.Then people will know they are serious and take notice of them.
	0