SG400 and Hayalon

ChopperCharles · 10-19-2021, 04:05 PM

So, I flew to California from the East Coast, picked up my SG400, and rode around California for two weeks. I just got back on Friday.

First impression: The fit and finish appears really good. The bike is larger than I expected. It's small, but it's not SR400 small or SG250 small. The seat is quite comfortable, I like it a lot. With a gel pad I was good for 6-10 hours in the saddle every day. The engine is a gem. It runs well and once broken in has plenty of power to hold 80mph in 6th, even up minor hills. (a large grade will require a downshift). Around 7000 rpm the power hits hard and the engine sounds beautiful. It has plenty of passing power if you drop a couple gears. The speedometer is 3mph off at 45mph, and yet only 2mph off at 94mph. Yep, I briefly hit 94 (speedo)/92 (gps) on highway 99 coming back into LA. And I was still getting passed. The engine does lose quite a bit of power at elevation. At 6000 feet and I'm downshifting a lot more.

The engine is geared for 110mph at redline in 6th. It doesn't have the horsepower to reach 110 though... so this is a prime candidate for lower gearing. If the gearing is lowered, 6th gear will have more torque, and the bike will probably hit 100mph. 96mph is so close, 100 is probably only one tooth away. That said, gearing it lower would also make acceleration in all gears better, and also raise the rpm at 80 in 6th into the bottom of the power band. I'm guessing the bike has 14/48 sprockets. I dont' have mine here yet, so I can't count 'em. Going to a 13T front sprocket would drop top speed to 102, but the bike should be able to achieve it. It'd be a 7% increase in torque across the board.

Now for the bad. The rear suspension is terrible. TERRIBLE. Beyond bad. The shocks have NO REBOUND DAMPING. Every bump causes a pogo-stick like procession of 4 more bouncing "waves" before the shocks settle down. And usually that first hit bottoms the shocks completely. Sometimes the first bounce bottoms as well. Hitting a mid-corner bump on an otherwise smooth road upsets the suspension and causes the bike to wallow and want to run wide. On a truly bumpy road, the bouncing suspension never has time to settle down, and it's like riding a bucking bronco. On a road that my Benelli Leoncino Trail would eat for breakfast, the SG400 is reduced to 25mph or less, because it's simply uncontrollable any faster. The rear shocks are SO bad it's actually impossible to evaluate the front forks.

Also, the exhaust header pipes are the first thing to touch down when leaned over, not the footpeg feelers. This wrecks the pipe and also doesn't leave a lot of room for mistakes. Once you're scraping hard parts there's no more lean angle available. The turn-in is also slow and deliberate... it has me wondering if the bike was actually designed for longer shocks. Longer shocks would quicken the steering and allow the footpeg feelers to touch down before the exhaust. And would also provide more than 1.5" of suspension travel. But then the bike wouldn't have a low 30" seat height... so I think a decision was made to make the bike appealing to new and small riders rather than make the rear suspension actually work correctly.

I'm looking at options for the shocks now. I'm probably going to try the RFY cheapie shocks on eBay, just to see how they work on the SG400. I may also do the popular rebuild of the RFYs, which often have air in the oil side of the shock.

The other option I found is $280 for Hagon shocks for a Triumph Thruxton.

Honestly I'm leaning towards the Hagons, but I kinda want to buy the RFY just to see if they can make things even a little better.

Finally, it gets nowhere near 70mpg. I got an average of 45mpg riding in California. Which is essentially up and down a winding mountain path between every single town (because every town is in its own valley). I also rode up the coast on US1. And I got 45mpg. Best I got was 50mpg. That's still 200 miles between fill-ups, but that's 100 miles short of the 300 miles per tank that they advertised. Now granted, I am heavy and I had saddlebags on the bike, so maybe I'll get better mileage when the bike is back home and the saddlebags off.

Has anyone bought and received the Hayalon yet? It looks like it's got more suspension travel, but no idea if it's good suspension. Zongshen after all has had trouble with suspension. The RX3 is over-sprung for small people, the RX4 is over-sprung even for enormous people, and the SG400 is both under-sprung and under-damped. My guess is the Hayalon is more of the same, but I haven't ridden one yet.

The Hayalon is trying to look Italian, with its red trellis frame. But the Benelli 302S has the same horsepower and *is* italian. At least italian-designed, with italian-designed suspension. And it's only a $200 difference in MSRP. The 378cc zongshen engine has a bit more torque... but the 302S mill has a lot more character and the bike is a total blast to ride. I'd really like to see a head-to-head review of the two bikes.

Charles.

culcune · 10-24-2021, 03:17 PM

Great to read your review. Sorry to read about the suspension, however. You have been dipping into the 'premium' Chinese bike offerings for a while amassing a collection of them, and it is nice to have a member's perspective on them.

wheelbender6 · 10-24-2021, 04:23 PM

From what I have read, you have a nice fleet of CSC bikes now. I hope you can solve the rear suspension issue without too much money and bother.

ChopperCharles · 10-25-2021, 10:35 AM

Not a fleet. Just an RX3 and a SG400. But I do have two other chinese-made motorcycles: An SSR Buccaneer 250 and a Benelli Leoncino Trail.

The RX3 is more powerful and arguably a better bike than the Buccaneer.
The Buccaneer frame broke, but the bike has been 100% reliable other than that (And it was replaced under warranty). The RX3 has had all number of problems. Valve recession (new head), fuel filter failure, ECU failure, and suspension bushing failure just off the top of my head. Plus any kind of decent off-road tire rubs on the airbox.

I bought the RX3 in October 2020 and the Leoncino in February 2021. Both have roughly the same mileage (6700 on the RX3, 6500 on the Leoncino). The Leoncino has needed nothing except tires. It's been completely reliable in every way, and loads of fun.

If I can fix the SG400's suspension I'll be a happy man. If not, I'll just sell the bike. I had my adventure in California, and if I lose a grand on the bike I'll still have that trip under my belt.

Charles.

ChopperCharles · 11-29-2021, 01:10 PM

I want to make a correction. Above I said that the SG400 drags the exhaust pipes. This is not correct. On the right side, the footpeg feeler will touch down first. On the left side, the kickstand bracket touches down first. The left has about half the lean angle available that the right side has. Which is unfortunate. A few mm could be ground off that bracket, but much more and the side stand itself will start to drag.

I put some super, super cheap RFX shocks (knockoff of a knockoff) on the bike, and while they're not anything close to good shocks, they've made the bike rideable. I'm experimenting with ride height before I custom order some YSS or Hagon shocks.

Charles.

ChopperCharles · 12-06-2021, 10:51 AM

I had to cut about 8mm off the end of the rear master cylinder pushrod in order for the clevis to thread in far enough to allow the brake pedal to rest under my foot. Now the adjustment is all the way in and it's perfect for my riding shoes. When I switch to big boots I can raise the pedal slightly.

I also remove the left footpeg feeler and added a nut onto the threaded section, and then reinstalled it. I could also have used washers, but this was easier. How the footpeg feeler touches down *just* before the frame does.

Charles.

ChopperCharles · 12-07-2021, 01:14 PM

There are quite a few accessories for this bike on ebuy7.com. Has anyone else done business with them? Are they legit or a scam? I was waiting patiently for stuff to show up on Aliexpress, but it hasn't so far... so I'm hoping eBuy7 is legit.

Charles.

**JerryHawk250** · 12-07-2021, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChopperCharles

There are quite a few accessories for this bike on ebuy7.com. Has anyone else done business with them? Are they legit or a scam? I was waiting patiently for stuff to show up on Aliexpress, but it hasn't so far... so I'm hoping eBuy7 is legit.

Charles.

Never dealt with ebuy7. I've made a few orders with Aliexpress. Aliexpress has been very quick on shipping out. Usually 3-5 days to get to US and through customs. The issue is after it clears customs. Everything I've ordered in the past month took 5-7 day to get from LA to Dallas, Tx. My current packages have been sitting since Nov 25th in Dallas and has not moved as of today. The USPS can't give me a answer on why they are still there. I've received stuff from Aliexpress in less than 10 days. Seems like ever since the USPS partnered up with Pitney Bowes that it take forever to get anything delivered in a decent time.

ChopperCharles · 12-07-2021, 03:06 PM

AliExpress doesn't have any/many RE3 parts. I have had great success with aliexpress orders, and I'd gladly order from them again.... except they don't generally carry many parts for smaller manufacturers like Zongshen or Italjet. I ask about eBuy7 because that's the ONLY place the parts are at right now.

Charles.

Falkon45 · 12-07-2021, 03:46 PM

The problem with AliExpress is that you have to be very specific sometimes. Lookup the parts by the original manufacturer. They actually carry TONS of zongshen parts, but not exactly bike/model specific parts. I ordered from them a lot. Typically a month for parts to arrive. So far, only 2 orders that were a no-show.

I've never heard of the other place. Ever look at yoyocart?

ChopperCharles · 12-07-2021, 04:34 PM

Look, I know what I'm talking about. None of the parts I'm interested in are available on AliExpress; I have searched exhaustively. I'm asking about ebuy7, not aliexpress. If they were on Aliexpress I'd have already bought everything and wouldn't be asking about whether ebuy7 is legit or not.

Charles.

Falkon45 · 12-07-2021, 04:40 PM

Calm down friend. Just giving some tips on how to search AliExpress, because you have to look for the same thing about two or three different ways.

I also said I've never heard of the other place, and asked if you looked at yoyocart also. I didn't say anything about you not knowing what you're talking about.

**JerryHawk250** · 12-07-2021, 05:16 PM

The ebuy7 site looks legit. May try buying a small item to test it out. Paypal give you some sort of protection.

Falkon45 · 12-08-2021, 07:57 AM

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/ebuy7.com

Most of the reviews are 5 star and 1 star. Most of the 5 star reviews are bland general statements. Most of the 1 star reviews are pretty detailed.

I wouldn't take the chance. Also, it seems like that tack on shipping afterwards like yoyocart.

ChopperCharles · 12-08-2021, 09:40 AM

I'm not uncalm, I'm just frustrated at the non-answers, alternate suggestions, etc. I've looked elsewhere, no other site has these parts, and so I'm gonna give them a shot. Trying a cheap item first and will see where it goes.

Charles.

10-19-2021, 04:05 PM	#1
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	SG400 and Hayalon So, I flew to California from the East Coast, picked up my SG400, and rode around California for two weeks. I just got back on Friday. First impression: The fit and finish appears really good. The bike is larger than I expected. It's small, but it's not SR400 small or SG250 small. The seat is quite comfortable, I like it a lot. With a gel pad I was good for 6-10 hours in the saddle every day. The engine is a gem. It runs well and once broken in has plenty of power to hold 80mph in 6th, even up minor hills. (a large grade will require a downshift). Around 7000 rpm the power hits hard and the engine sounds beautiful. It has plenty of passing power if you drop a couple gears. The speedometer is 3mph off at 45mph, and yet only 2mph off at 94mph. Yep, I briefly hit 94 (speedo)/92 (gps) on highway 99 coming back into LA. And I was still getting passed. The engine does lose quite a bit of power at elevation. At 6000 feet and I'm downshifting a lot more. The engine is geared for 110mph at redline in 6th. It doesn't have the horsepower to reach 110 though... so this is a prime candidate for lower gearing. If the gearing is lowered, 6th gear will have more torque, and the bike will probably hit 100mph. 96mph is so close, 100 is probably only one tooth away. That said, gearing it lower would also make acceleration in all gears better, and also raise the rpm at 80 in 6th into the bottom of the power band. I'm guessing the bike has 14/48 sprockets. I dont' have mine here yet, so I can't count 'em. Going to a 13T front sprocket would drop top speed to 102, but the bike should be able to achieve it. It'd be a 7% increase in torque across the board. Now for the bad. The rear suspension is terrible. TERRIBLE. Beyond bad. The shocks have NO REBOUND DAMPING. Every bump causes a pogo-stick like procession of 4 more bouncing "waves" before the shocks settle down. And usually that first hit bottoms the shocks completely. Sometimes the first bounce bottoms as well. Hitting a mid-corner bump on an otherwise smooth road upsets the suspension and causes the bike to wallow and want to run wide. On a truly bumpy road, the bouncing suspension never has time to settle down, and it's like riding a bucking bronco. On a road that my Benelli Leoncino Trail would eat for breakfast, the SG400 is reduced to 25mph or less, because it's simply uncontrollable any faster. The rear shocks are SO bad it's actually impossible to evaluate the front forks. Also, the exhaust header pipes are the first thing to touch down when leaned over, not the footpeg feelers. This wrecks the pipe and also doesn't leave a lot of room for mistakes. Once you're scraping hard parts there's no more lean angle available. The turn-in is also slow and deliberate... it has me wondering if the bike was actually designed for longer shocks. Longer shocks would quicken the steering and allow the footpeg feelers to touch down before the exhaust. And would also provide more than 1.5" of suspension travel. But then the bike wouldn't have a low 30" seat height... so I think a decision was made to make the bike appealing to new and small riders rather than make the rear suspension actually work correctly. I'm looking at options for the shocks now. I'm probably going to try the RFY cheapie shocks on eBay, just to see how they work on the SG400. I may also do the popular rebuild of the RFYs, which often have air in the oil side of the shock. The other option I found is $280 for Hagon shocks for a Triumph Thruxton. Honestly I'm leaning towards the Hagons, but I kinda want to buy the RFY just to see if they can make things even a little better. Finally, it gets nowhere near 70mpg. I got an average of 45mpg riding in California. Which is essentially up and down a winding mountain path between every single town (because every town is in its own valley). I also rode up the coast on US1. And I got 45mpg. Best I got was 50mpg. That's still 200 miles between fill-ups, but that's 100 miles short of the 300 miles per tank that they advertised. Now granted, I am heavy and I had saddlebags on the bike, so maybe I'll get better mileage when the bike is back home and the saddlebags off. Has anyone bought and received the Hayalon yet? It looks like it's got more suspension travel, but no idea if it's good suspension. Zongshen after all has had trouble with suspension. The RX3 is over-sprung for small people, the RX4 is over-sprung even for enormous people, and the SG400 is both under-sprung and under-damped. My guess is the Hayalon is more of the same, but I haven't ridden one yet. The Hayalon is trying to look Italian, with its red trellis frame. But the Benelli 302S has the same horsepower and is italian. At least italian-designed, with italian-designed suspension. And it's only a $200 difference in MSRP. The 378cc zongshen engine has a bit more torque... but the 302S mill has a lot more character and the bike is a total blast to ride. I'd really like to see a head-to-head review of the two bikes. Charles. Last edited by ChopperCharles; 10-19-2021 at 04:47 PM.
	3

10-24-2021, 03:17 PM	#2
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	Great to read your review. Sorry to read about the suspension, however. You have been dipping into the 'premium' Chinese bike offerings for a while amassing a collection of them, and it is nice to have a member's perspective on them. __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	1

10-24-2021, 04:23 PM	#3
wheelbender6 Join Date: May 2015 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,902	From what I have read, you have a nice fleet of CSC bikes now. I hope you can solve the rear suspension issue without too much money and bother. __________________ "Its not WHAT you ride; its THAT you ride"
	0

12-07-2021, 05:16 PM	#13
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,554	The ebuy7 site looks legit. May try buying a small item to test it out. Paypal give you some sort of protection. __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	0

10-25-2021, 10:35 AM	#4
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	Not a fleet. Just an RX3 and a SG400. But I do have two other chinese-made motorcycles: An SSR Buccaneer 250 and a Benelli Leoncino Trail. The RX3 is more powerful and arguably a better bike than the Buccaneer. The Buccaneer frame broke, but the bike has been 100% reliable other than that (And it was replaced under warranty). The RX3 has had all number of problems. Valve recession (new head), fuel filter failure, ECU failure, and suspension bushing failure just off the top of my head. Plus any kind of decent off-road tire rubs on the airbox. I bought the RX3 in October 2020 and the Leoncino in February 2021. Both have roughly the same mileage (6700 on the RX3, 6500 on the Leoncino). The Leoncino has needed nothing except tires. It's been completely reliable in every way, and loads of fun. If I can fix the SG400's suspension I'll be a happy man. If not, I'll just sell the bike. I had my adventure in California, and if I lose a grand on the bike I'll still have that trip under my belt. Charles.
	1

11-29-2021, 01:10 PM	#5
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	I want to make a correction. Above I said that the SG400 drags the exhaust pipes. This is not correct. On the right side, the footpeg feeler will touch down first. On the left side, the kickstand bracket touches down first. The left has about half the lean angle available that the right side has. Which is unfortunate. A few mm could be ground off that bracket, but much more and the side stand itself will start to drag. I put some super, super cheap RFX shocks (knockoff of a knockoff) on the bike, and while they're not anything close to good shocks, they've made the bike rideable. I'm experimenting with ride height before I custom order some YSS or Hagon shocks. Charles.
	5

12-06-2021, 10:51 AM	#6
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	I had to cut about 8mm off the end of the rear master cylinder pushrod in order for the clevis to thread in far enough to allow the brake pedal to rest under my foot. Now the adjustment is all the way in and it's perfect for my riding shoes. When I switch to big boots I can raise the pedal slightly. I also remove the left footpeg feeler and added a nut onto the threaded section, and then reinstalled it. I could also have used washers, but this was easier. How the footpeg feeler touches down just before the frame does. Charles.
	1

12-07-2021, 01:14 PM	#7
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	There are quite a few accessories for this bike on ebuy7.com. Has anyone else done business with them? Are they legit or a scam? I was waiting patiently for stuff to show up on Aliexpress, but it hasn't so far... so I'm hoping eBuy7 is legit. Charles.
	0

12-07-2021, 03:06 PM	#9
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	AliExpress doesn't have any/many RE3 parts. I have had great success with aliexpress orders, and I'd gladly order from them again.... except they don't generally carry many parts for smaller manufacturers like Zongshen or Italjet. I ask about eBuy7 because that's the ONLY place the parts are at right now. Charles.
	1

12-07-2021, 03:46 PM	#10
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	The problem with AliExpress is that you have to be very specific sometimes. Lookup the parts by the original manufacturer. They actually carry TONS of zongshen parts, but not exactly bike/model specific parts. I ordered from them a lot. Typically a month for parts to arrive. So far, only 2 orders that were a no-show. I've never heard of the other place. Ever look at yoyocart?
	0

12-07-2021, 04:34 PM	#11
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	Look, I know what I'm talking about. None of the parts I'm interested in are available on AliExpress; I have searched exhaustively. I'm asking about ebuy7, not aliexpress. If they were on Aliexpress I'd have already bought everything and wouldn't be asking about whether ebuy7 is legit or not. Charles.
	0

12-07-2021, 04:40 PM	#12
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	Calm down friend. Just giving some tips on how to search AliExpress, because you have to look for the same thing about two or three different ways. I also said I've never heard of the other place, and asked if you looked at yoyocart also. I didn't say anything about you not knowing what you're talking about.
	0

12-08-2021, 07:57 AM	#14
Falkon45 Join Date: Aug 2020 Location: Savannah, Ga Posts: 759	https://www.trustpilot.com/review/ebuy7.com Most of the reviews are 5 star and 1 star. Most of the 5 star reviews are bland general statements. Most of the 1 star reviews are pretty detailed. I wouldn't take the chance. Also, it seems like that tack on shipping afterwards like yoyocart.
	1

12-08-2021, 09:40 AM	#15
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 677	I'm not uncalm, I'm just frustrated at the non-answers, alternate suggestions, etc. I've looked elsewhere, no other site has these parts, and so I'm gonna give them a shot. Trying a cheap item first and will see where it goes. Charles.
	1