2008 Kawasaki KLR456 Diesel Motorcycle Project

[SamM]

Here's my lastest frame picture. I know not much to see. Everything that is not needed has been cut off. It's ready for the new downtubes and lower engine cradle. I think I have decided to use square tubing for the lower engine cradle/platform. Square tubing gets me the flat surfaces I need to mount the engine, aluminum skidplate and new heavy-duty lower wider footpeg brackets. The square tubing will also allow me to lower the engine somewhat compared to round tubing which will require much more bending. I'll use the round tubing that I have already bent and cut for the dual downtubes. It should still look good as you won't really see the lower engine cradle because of the skidplate and CVT cover.

Still trying to decide on a color. The Desert Sand color is really screaming at me. I want to have the frame, subframe and all the bodywork sprayed with Line X this Winter. A new cushdrive has been purchased, I still need a few odds and ends. The engine should be here at the end of the month. The supplier is saving one for me. I'm going out of the country late this week and I won't order the engine until I get back. The other misc. parts will also be ordered when I get back. Hope to have a few things finished up when the engine arrives. It will be rolling again, before I mount the engine and build the engine cradle. More then!

SamM

[Weldangrind]

Square tube is an excellent idea. I had similar thoughts about intersecting square tube with the round swingarm tube on my quad; it'll make a decent mount for a chain slider.

The benefit to square tube, aside from the points you brought up, is that you can notch it with a hole saw for a clean intersection with round tube.

I hope you detail every step. I can't wait to learn about incorporating the cushdrive and CVT. I have access to a small crank / #40 chain Comet TAV for cheap, and I'd love to build a diesel bobber with it. The TAV was originally designed for a 6.5hp gas engine, but the #40 chain should work nicely with a higher torque diesel.

[SamM]

Weldangrind,
The biggest obstacle that I can see with the frame is making sure the steering head and swingarm are at a perfect 90 degrees from one another. The build table for my Lotus is flat dead level. I'll probably take the car frame off the table and use it to level, mock up, and then tack up the frame. I may even do the finish welding on the table just to make sure everything is straight and in the proper place. The square tubing will make fabbing everything for the frame much easier now!

Another issue is the CVT jackshaft mount. The jackshaft that powers the final drive chain needs to be the the same plane as the swingarm. Bare with me for a moment! Most of these type bikes use an adjustable engine mount. The idea is so that the CVT belt can be adjusted as it wears. I'd rather bolt the engine into the frame in a fixed position and make the jackshaft adjustable. I think I've worked that out. The jackshaft bearing mounts will not be bolted solidly to the frame. Instead, they will mount on a large bracket that will pivot on the stock unused lower gasoline engine mount. If you look at the picture below, you'll see a bolt through mount located on the bottom portion of the frame under the swingarm. It may need to be beefed up a little though. When the CVT belt needs to be tensioned the bracket will rotate on this bolt to provide the belt adjustment. The complete jackshaft assembly will move backwards or forwards and then bolt solidly to the frame using tabs that will bolt-on using the swingarm mounting bolt. Just like an alternator on a Chevy V-8. The final chain drive will then adjust the chain in it's normal fashion to make sure it is tensioned properly. This way I can keep the engine as far forward as I can get it, making more room for the jackshaft itself. The side benefit is that I get a solidly mounted engine sitting on rubber isolators. Moving the engine back and forth seems like a really bad idea to me.

The cushdrive that I bought is just a stock KLR650 cushdrive. It's located in the rear wheel. I still need to order the rubber isolator for that and a few rear axle parts but it will all have to wait for my return from South America, on the 20th. I also need to order the rear shock link bolts and to remove the Cogent Dynamics shock from my other KLR. A new Ricor IAS complete suspension is going onto that bike.

The one last BIG issue on the diesel KLR may be the 2007 KLR rear brake caliper mount. Since the bike needs to be switched to a rightside final drive, I need to have a mirror image caliper mount fabricated for it. A local machineshop will get that job. I hope they can handle it.

SamM

[katoranger]

I may have to save this GS450 I have as a frame donor. That would make a great commuter bike with diesel power.

[Weldangrind]

SamM,

I once built a minibike for my friend's son, and it was a blank slate in the beginning. I didn't have a need for a jackshaft on that bike, since the final drive was a #35 chain like the clutch. I wasn't using a CVT, although plans were to upgrade as the boy became more confident in his riding ability.

Since there was no swingarm and no jackshaft, I had little choice but to adjust chain tension via sliding the engine forward. As such, I welded a piece of angle iron in front of the engine that bridged the two framerails. I then drilled two holes in the angle, and attached two studs two the sliding portion of the engine mount plate (I didn't mount the engine directly to the frame, because I worked hard at achieving balance on two planes). The studs passed through the holes, and nyloc nuts would draw them forward.

I'm not saying that you should slide the engine forward to tighten the chain; I agree that it should be static. What I'm saying is that the jackshaft benefits from a screw-type adjustment, unlike a Chev alternator. I once had an '89 Mercury Sable, and the alternator had a screw adjustment for alternator belt tension; perhaps you can devise something like that to apply tension to the jackshaft. Maybe your donor car has the same setup for inspiration. You can also look to old-school motorcycle axle adjusters for ideas.

Cheers!

[SamM]

Weldangrind,
I think a screw type adjuster is a great idea. It's very doable with my ideas. Adding a simple screw adjuster to each side instead of a bolt/ bracket assembly should be easily accomplished. It would also make everything more stable.

Thanks!

SamM

[Savage]

subscribing for the future.
crazy, can't wait to see the end

[SamM]

Made it back from my trip to the Galapagos Islands last week. AWESOME trip! We had a great time. For the last week, I've been laying around trying to recover from a bug I caught in Ecuador on my last night out on the town. We ate at a steakhouse in Guayaquil. I had some reservations about the food but our host reported that everything was ok to eat. NOT! It could have be the buffet lunch at the hotel the next day. Not sure! I think the octopus didn't agree with me. Still had an awesome time though. Snorkled in the Pacific Ocean with sea lions. Walked through the largest lava tubes on the planet and checked out the giant tortoises. Did a little work for God too!

Anyway, my diesel engine will be shipped next week. They have arrived and are being tested. Not much else to report. I have been checking into a different final drive system but I don't have anything in concrete yet. Still waiting on some answers to a few questions.

SamM

Here's a link to a video of my new engine.

[Savage]

Any idea how they do since they only put out 13hp?

[FastDoc]

Originally Posted by Savage

Any idea how they do since they only put out 13hp?

Its all in the torque. 8)

[Weldangrind]

Semi-hijack: Were you in the Galapagos Islands on a missions trip?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by FastDoc

Its all in the torque. 8)

Right, but I'm asking how they compare? Guess he doesn't know yet

[SamM]

Semi-hijack: Were you in the Galapagos Islands on a missions trip?

Yes, I was! I'm a missionary to Central and South America in my spare time. It's good for the soul and it keeps me humble. Actually, I do a trip every other year. In 2007, I went to Guatemala. This trip has made me realize even more that I need to learn the language before I go back in 2011. My new mission is to learn Spanish over the next 2 years.

An evangelist that I support and travel with, might be going to Peru next year. Our off day would be a visit to Machu Picchu.

If you ever have any doubts about how great home is, travel to a third world country.

SamM

[SamM]

Right, but I'm asking how they compare? Guess he doesn't know yet

How does the 13hp diesel engine compare to what? How does the 13hp diesel engine compare to my 38hp gasoline engine? There is no comparison! The 13hp engine gets over 100+mpg, runs on fuel I can make and doesn't use gasoline. That's a WIN, WIN, WIN situation! As to the performance. I have no idea yet. I suspect that there is no real performance comparison either. All things even, the gasoline engined, manual transmission KLR that I have would walk away from a diesel powered, CVT transmission KLR. The guy that originally did this conversion reports a 65 to 70mph topspeed with a 10hp engine. I hope mine does that good or better. Because I realize this engine is severly limited for streetuse, the CVT equipped version may never happen. I am working on alternative drives to address the power deficiency.

Right now, I'm looking at an electric drive system that could give me a much higher 90+mph topspeed. Maybe even better. The downside is that it is very heavy, very expensive and I have to somehow power the thing! Think of it as a modern diesel/electric railway locomotive. BIG POWER, but it sips fuel! With reduced power usage, meaning a light throttle hand running the electric drive and cut back engine speeds to make electricity, I believe that upwards of 150+mpg could be possible, maybe more! Hey, if you're going to dream, dream big! I'm still trying to find out how big a power source I'll need and how much continuous power I'll need to produce. It will be expensive and it will delay the project some. I'm not rich and I have other priorities. I do know that it would produce lower emissions (with bio-fuel) and get great mileage. Unlike an pure electric motorcycle I would have unlimited range. It might not be on bio-fuel but I could go as far as I wanted on it. This is just a big science project and a learning exercise for me, as I have a much bigger project in mind for the future. Over the past few weeks, it's mushroomed out of control as I've had a lot of extra time (riding on jet aircraft) to roll things over in my mind. Then I found the much more powerful hub mounted electric motor that I've been waiting for.

Check the pictures below. If it works, I'll sell all the rest of my motorcycles to finance this one project. I may need a bigger diesel engine and that's where the next big expense will come. I have the same motorcycle that the bike in the lower picture is made from sitting in my shop. I can sell all of the original engine, wiring and parts that I don't need to help finance some of it. The current bike that I am building will also be sold along with my new 2008 KLR650.

Up untill very recently, I had always considered the purchase of my 2005 KTM 950 Adventure as a big mistake. Now, I'm not so sure.

There, I just let all the cats out of my bag! My wife thinks that I have totally lost my mind. This seems like a logical next step to me. Why reinvent anything. Use proven technology that works in the real world every day. The problem is in the small packaging needed for the use on a motorcycle.

Imagine this: how sweet would it be to roll up to a stoplight, dial up the separate, manual engine control throttle, and when the light changes, roll on the rheostat electric throttle and dust a big cruiser or an R1? All the time using bio-fuel (that you can make) and getting 150+mpg? As I said, if you are going to dream, dream big! This all may be a big pipedream and a lot of cheap talk! But it may be a really cool motorcycle!

Has anyone seen or heard of any motorcycle like this before?

SamM

[Savage]

Since we're talking about anything and everything I can't wait until I'm old and cruising around on a brushless lipo cycle. I'll be ready for a quite bike by then.