Hawk swing arm axle spacers

[SeerAtlas]

Anyone else seeing a crush problem when tightening their rear axle? finally pulled the thing apart and the axle spacer inside the rear of the swing arm is a thin piece of tubing welded with two end plates which is supposed to keep the square tubes from bending together when the axle is torqued down. I think the book calls for 65 ft/lbs but that would cause the tube to buckle and mushroom, thus letting the square tubes bend in around the axle bolt.

What torque are the long time wrenchers using on the rear? I 'm using 40-45 now on the second Hawk after my bro tried 55 on his and collapsed the spacer tube:( he's rebuilding it now to his own design.

ADAM? can u ask the engineer what gives here?

[BlackBike]

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

Anyone else seeing a crush problem when tightening their rear axle? finally pulled the thing apart and the axle spacer inside the rear of the swing arm is a thin piece of tubing welded with two end plates which is supposed to keep the square tubes from bending together when the axle is torqued down. I think the book calls for 65 ft/lbs but that would cause the tube to buckle and mushroom, thus letting the square tubes bend in around the axle bolt.

What torque are the long time wrenchers using on the rear? I 'm using 40-45 now on the second Hawk after my bro tried 55 on his and collapsed the spacer tube:( he's rebuilding it now to his own design.

ADAM? can u ask the engineer what gives here?

It's good you call this out. I have not destroyed mine yet during constant chain tensioning but I can see that it can easily be done. Light touch required.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by BlackBike

It's good you call this out. I have not destroyed mine yet during constant chain tensioning but I can see that it can easily be done. Light touch required.

My goodness, 65 foot foot pounds of torque. Seems awfully tight to me. I would have thought 35 fp would do the trick. The last thing I would want to do is distort the end of the swing arm, and collapse the metal tube inside. If you have a problem with wheel movement in the S/A, there are much simpler methoeds to fix this than a machine shop job to replace the tube.

[SeerAtlas]

My bro has pretty much a full machine shop at his house and is the kind of guy who doesn't fool around. when refurbishing "DodgZilla" (my old factory prepped Cummins Diesel 4x4 1 Ton) he swapped in titanium axles LOL.

imho the cure here is for Hawk &CSC for that matter, to upgrade the swingarm to one of better quality and design.

[SeerAtlas]

Ok you HAWK, BASHAN and probably CSC TT250 riders!!!!
Bro just showed me what he found inside the Hawk swingarm rear axle adjuster (and looks to be the same on the CSC tho haven't pulled it yet but swingarm looks the same).
In a word, its CRAP ENGINEERING!!

going to put up some photos, but bottom line, The "spacer" part is thin-wall cheap-azz metal tube of WAY TOO BIG DIAMETER to even support the axle itself. The effect is to allow the axell to slop around in the tube unsupported if not REALLY tightened down, which bends/bows the tube eventually crumpling it out of shape like a melted piece of pipe! throwing the axle out of true alignment etc.

best/easy solution replace the included spacer with one having a 5/8 thick wall tube for the axle to run through.

Let me try and get a picture up tonight.
sorry for the drama but this kind of stuff makes me mad:(
Someone tell Wolftrax to check his before setting off on his adventure. could cause a lot of problems.

[BlackBike]

Yep, this is prime territory for home mods for sure

Let the mod ideas begin

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

Ok you HAWK, BASHAN and probably CSC TT250 riders!!!!
Bro just showed me what he found inside the Hawk swingarm rear axle adjuster (and looks to be the same on the CSC tho haven't pulled it yet but swingarm looks the same).
In a word, its CRAP ENGINEERING!!

going to put up some photos, but bottom line, The "spacer" part is thin-wall cheap-azz metal tube of WAY TOO BIG DIAMETER to even support the axle itself. The effect is to allow the axell to slop around in the tube unsupported if not REALLY tightened down, which bends/bows the tube eventually crumpling it out of shape like a melted piece of pipe! throwing the axle out of true alignment etc.

best/easy solution replace the included spacer with one having a 5/8 thick wall tube for the axle to run through.

Let me try and get a picture up tonight.
sorry for the drama but this kind of stuff makes me mad:(
Someone tell Wolftrax to check his before setting off on his adventure. could cause a lot of problems.

Well! That would explain having to torque the axle bolts to 65 foot pounds of torque.! I can't imagine a factory making that kind of mistake. Unless this is an importer designed motor-cycle, designed from a Chinese restaurant menu of parts. You know, "We'll take 18 inch rear wheel, laced to hub out of column "b" with spokes from column "d", and a square section single shock swing-arm out of column "a". The axle is smaller than the tubing in the s/a? Oh, just torque the hell out of it so it will work till it's off warrentie. So to fix it. How much is the difference between the o.d. of the axle, and the i.d. of the axle tube in the swing arm. When we know that, maybe we can come up with a solution.

[ughmas]

TT250 service manual specifies 35 FT LBS for rear axle, I think you may be over tightening

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by ughmas

TT250 service manual specifies 35 FT LBS for rear axle, I think you may be over tightening

Zakkly. They've been designed like this for years on a ton of Hondoids. 35lbs. If you do overtorque, crush-city.

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by SeerAtlas

Ok you HAWK, BASHAN and probably CSC TT250 riders!!!!
Bro just showed me what he found inside the Hawk swingarm rear axle adjuster (and looks to be the same on the CSC tho haven't pulled it yet but swingarm looks the same).
In a word, its CRAP ENGINEERING!!

going to put up some photos, but bottom line, The "spacer" part is thin-wall cheap-azz metal tube of WAY TOO BIG DIAMETER to even support the axle itself. The effect is to allow the axell to slop around in the tube unsupported if not REALLY tightened down, which bends/bows the tube eventually crumpling it out of shape like a melted piece of pipe! throwing the axle out of true alignment etc.

best/easy solution replace the included spacer with one having a 5/8 thick wall tube for the axle to run through.

Let me try and get a picture up tonight.
sorry for the drama but this kind of stuff makes me mad:(
Someone tell Wolftrax to check his before setting off on his adventure. could cause a lot of problems.

On second thought, is the oversized tube to allow axle movement for chain adjustment?

[wilserchinarider]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

On second thought, is the oversized tube to allow axle movement for chain adjustment?

I have been adjusting chains and tightening rear axles on china bikes with this set up for years, and have never had a concern or issue with the swing arm tube crushing. Step away from the 30" cheater pipe lol , a wrench is all you need IME

[kohburn]

if you can't loosen it with your attached tool kit then its too tight.

[SeerAtlas]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

On second thought, is the oversized tube to allow axle movement for chain adjustment?

no, dont think so as its sloppily oversized, i.e waay too big in diameter.

[kohburn]

maybe they use carpenter's tolerances (+/- 1/8" is good) :-D

[BlackBike]

Bashans version which is probably universal .

Notice the super tack weld job Could and should be beefed up for the more aggressive riders out there. The end cap steel gets bent and deformed easily