A Little Perspective

[2LZ]

I did a little research.....but I’m sure this is no secret. I’m just usually late to the party.

I knew that at $1895.00, we were getting a smokin’ deal on the new TT250….and outside of CA, the Hawk and the Bashan Storm were also an unreal deal, especially for the quality of bike received, at around $1400+/- (ballparked), depending on who you got it from, on what day of the week.

I always balked at the new SSR's 250 at my local guy here in Sac, though I knew they were a top-tier China Bike. The SSR brand (same bike as Q, rebadged, 250 now, fat rims and tires) can be found for $2795 online in places. (mail order plus $295+/- shipping) or for $2995, assembled, at my local guy here in Sac...which turns out to be a dang fair price because there’s no 295.00 shipping. I’ve always really liked the SSR/Q Link for multiple reasons. One, there’s a ton of quality aluminum work. This includes a big beefy swingarm with quality aluminum welds plus aluminum rims, all standard equipment. The switch gear has always been top notch, the suspension was always good stuff and the weld work was always excellent. That and the Suzuki-type engine kind of set them apart from all the Hondoid’s in the past.

My gripe was that "The new SSR's are getting dangerously close the same price as a newer Japanese brand." Boy...was I wrong! I just looked up the Big 4 for the first time in a while:

All comparable, brand new, dual sports that are still available:

Suzuki - DR200SE. Still has a rear drum brake and regular forks - $4199.95*
Honda - CRF 250L - $4995.95* (super quality unit)
Kawasaki - They don't even offer a smaller displacement dual sport. Just the KLR 650. If they do, I didn't see it on the website.
Yamaha XT250R. $5190.95*! (super quality unit)

*Factory list price. Not sure if CA is more expensive or not.

Look, I totally understand that you can’t truly compare some of the Japanese, state-of-the-art stuff, (the Suzuki DR200 seems woefully behind the times compared to the rest) but with how I ride now….and how far along the CB’s have come in quality in the last decade, cost justifying the Japanese alternative at almost twice the price of a top tier SSR or other CB is really getting difficult. In short, a guy not living in CA can buy THREE Hawks for the price of one DR200.

Seems not only did we getting smoking deals on the Hawks, Storms and the TT’s, but the new SSR's for $2795 and the regular price TT250 at $2495 still seems like a killer deal, especially here in CA, compared to the Big 4 alternative, that is if you’re not going to be doing triple jumps anytime soon. You add to that especially now, with CB parts and information being so readily available everywhere online now....plus vendors like CSC who are offering service and information like never before.

I knew the CB's were going up in price as they improved....but I had no idea how expensive the Japanese alternatives had become!

Makes me feel better about being a China Rider all the time…..

[Tranberg]

Maybe this thread is a good place to ask a question which has been on my mind for many years:

In the 70's and maybe the 80's, how cheap was a Japanese dirt bike, from a kids XR75 to an XL or XR250/350 for the average American middle class worker to buy for his kids or for himself?

Here in Europe, the exchange rate towards both the Yen and the US $ made an XR75 Honda an unreachable dream for all but the kids with rich parents.

[FastDoc]

Great perspective, 2LZ. Good thread!

Did Kawasaki drop the KLX??

It was a very good but tame bike but the Honda was just a little better with EFI and was quite a bit less money so I guess rather than update and lower the price of the KLX Kawasaki gave up? I suppose it was a small market anyways.

The Honda did not have the same quality suspension as the KLX and was quite a bit heavier but was clearly the better value, IMHO.

[Azhule]

Originally Posted by FastDoc

Did Kawasaki drop the KLX??

The KLX250 seems to come and go every so many years in the USA... hasn't been sold for 2 or 3+ years by now... so it should be about time they start selling it again it seems every 5 years or so the 250 shows back up

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting your interesting perspective, 2LZ.

I was surprised to see the KLX250S has been removed from the Kawasaki website.

https://www.kawasaki.com/Category/Motorcycle

[2LZ]

Just saw this on CR. CA is 4499.00 msrp for a DR 200. More justification.

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcd/5473290947.html

[Ron B]

This is the main reason I ordered the new hawk. A buddy of mine at work just bought him a yamaha 250 and he paid $5,300 for it, granted it has fuel injection but I couldn't see paying that much for the difference. I also noticed it is electric start only and didn't even have a Kickstarter.

[SpudRider]

I paid $950 for my new-in-the-crate, 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2. After submerging the engine in a mud pool, I retired the motor after 70,000 miles. I just installed a Yamaha XT225 engine in the frame, and my Chinese motorcycle is as good as new.

http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=15995

My Zongshen motorcycle was the best $950 investment I ever made.

[SpudRider]

I paid $2,895 for my new-in-the-crate, Zongshen RX3. It has performed flawlessly for over 13,000 miles. It was another superb investment.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by Tranberg

Maybe this thread is a good place to ask a question which has been on my mind for many years:

In the 70's and maybe the 80's, how cheap was a Japanese dirt bike, from a kids XR75 to an XL or XR250/350 for the average American middle class worker to buy for his kids or for himself?

Here in Europe, the exchange rate towards both the Yen and the US $ made an XR75 Honda an unreachable dream for all but the kids with rich parents.

That is a good question! My parents would never have thought of getting me a bike, but I had several friends with them, although the bikes were a few years old and my friends never seemed to ride them as they probably just lost interest; they just sat in their garage! They were probably not terribly expensive but they were not cheap. Middle and upper-middle class families (I am sure rich people, too, but I did not know anyone considered 'rich' at the time out of my school friends). Okay, thinking back, our family knew some people considered rich, who lived in a gated community, in a rural part of L.A. who had several vehicles--a CT-70 (DAX), a Honda Odyssey, a three-wheeled ATC, and a XR-something, maybe 80. I got to ride the little bike around the yard at one of our gatherings when I was 11 or 12. By the way, my parents still know them and keep in touch, and they are more rich, lol, but I don't think they have any of their old 'toys' around since they moved to an even more exclusive area north of L.A.

[SpudRider]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

Just saw this on CR. CA is 4499.00 msrp for a DR 200. More justification.

https://sacramento.craigslist.org/mcd/5473290947.html

The $3,799 price would be okay, but note the dealer will be charging freight and setup charges as well.

[culcune]

The SSR, ironically, 'out Suzukis' Suzuki as the engine in the SSR is based on a Suzuki design, but is larger than the DR and probably more off-road trail-ride ready than the DR. I used to own a DR 250s, and at the time, Suzuki was selling DR 350s as well (not sure why since they were near identical, but then again, SSR was selling XF 200 and XF 250 at the same time a couple years ago); those DR twin bikes had the goods! Why Suzuki has chosen to relegate their DR to 200cc and strapped to an RV status, I would be interested to know why? When they updated the bike a year or so ago, they should have at least enlarged the engine to bring back some sense of nostalgia to their DR 250/DR 350 days!

[BARLOW]

well, with shipping, i paid $1550 for my storm 250 ... up to 100 miles on it now, and other than the fact that it looks as though i will need to pull the motor to set the valves, i have no complaints ... had the lil lady on it with me today, and in 40 degree weather and some head winds at times, it did supper ... rode it to work last night and the guys all loved it ... the ones that have/know bikes said they could not believe i got it for that price, and did not expect to see that much/nice of a bike

EDIT: did valves this morning ... although id does not look like, the valve cover comes right off ... had to take the tank off (and the stuff to get the tank off)

[2LZ]

The China Bikes have always been great values for the money....especially if you give them the proper love and make them "as they should be" out of the crate. Sure, some of the old weld work looked like it was done by a 12 year old with the welder cranked up to "fry and spatter" but all in all, CB's, even today's nicer units, have always really been at the mercy of who assembled them out of the crate, and what extra care they took...or didn't. I had to basically disassemble and reassemble my X-Moto to make it right. Some ham-fisted mutant probably assembled 25 of them that day with a speed drill in a rent-a-garage. Many of these older bikes were bought and sold multiple times by failed dealers before they landed in your garage "new"....and 3 years old.

This whole new generation of Hondoid's are really something. Nice clean metal and plastic work on them and the fact there's reliable purchasing sources is also a big bonus.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by culcune

The SSR, ironically, 'out Suzukis' Suzuki as the engine in the SSR is based on a Suzuki design, but is larger than the DR and probably more off-road trail-ride ready than the DR. I used to own a DR 250s, and at the time, Suzuki was selling DR 350s as well (not sure why since they were near identical, but then again, SSR was selling XF 200 and XF 250 at the same time a couple years ago); those DR twin bikes had the goods! Why Suzuki has chosen to relegate their DR to 200cc and strapped to an RV status, I would be interested to know why? When they updated the bike a year or so ago, they should have at least enlarged the engine to bring back some sense of nostalgia to their DR 250/DR 350 days!

Now that I see what the Japanese are charging for their products, especially the woefully out-of-date Suzuki, I wouldn't bat an eye of dropping the money on a new SSR or TT at the regular price, especially knowing that my '09 Q is light-years ahead of the 2015 DR200 regarding suspension, alloys and un-sprung weight.

We do have to keep in mind that regarding the Yamaha and the Honda, these two bikes are the real deal with cutting edge craftsmanship and design, so you can't really go "apples to apples" with a CB....but you sure can justify why a Hawk, Storm, TT250 or SSR would do your needs just as well...for a heck of a lot less cost.

Of course, we in CA don't have the multitude of buying options the other states have and that really changes the game for us. Maybe sometime in the future I'll walk into my CB guy here in Sac and take a ride on a new SSR 250. See if the 250cc really makes a big difference over the 200 in my Q. I'm just not to sure about those funny fat tire, "kinda knobbies" it comes with now.