Gun control in Canada

[katoranger]

In total agreement with Phil.

[Jim]

Originally Posted by TheRealWorld

TurboT

This is not a likely scenario, but this has happened. If you were visiting in one of the U.S. states where carrying a concealed gun is legal for a stable licensed person and that person was in a fast food restaurant you were having lunch and a crazy guy came in shooting people and was going to shoot you and your family, would you want the stable armed citizen to stop him with his gun or would you rather die along with your family?

If you live in the real world, this requires an answer, even though it might be painful.

Maybe I am in a fantasy land... But in a lot of cases, I think that if the robber with the gun doesn't feel threatened by the presence of another gun, then their illegal use of their gun would be to intimidate people into giving them what he wanted such as the cash from the till and a happy meal? I think having more guns come out would escalate the situation to a point where people have to start firing back and forth, or taking a person as a shield. Of course there is still cases where the person just wants to hurt people, I think with or without a gun they would find a way.

I apparently live in the murder capital of Canada, but I don't feel the need to carry a gun on me when I'm out at night.

[TheRealWorld]

I like the wisdom that Phil and katoranger offered.

[TurboT]

Kato: You are right, in MY utopia(fantasy land) guns would be abolished everywhere. Sadly, that will never happen, as us humans have an appetite for destruction and we'll never stop killing each other. At least until the Klingons arrive and give us something else to shoot at and try to kill.

boost_addict: You nailed it on the head a few times there. You don't HAVE to hunt, you choose to because you enjoy it. I personally feel bad when I hit a bird with my car, so for me, taking the life of an animal purposely at my own hand is not an option for me. I won't eat veal or fois gras for the reasons mentioned, and if I didn't love a good juicy steak or burger myself I'd probably not eat meat at all.

With all that said, I enjoy a good debate, and purposely displayed a hard line stance in my messages to get the comments flowing. I know there are things I do, like burning gas in my motorcyle and quads, that others will tell me is damaging to the environment and could perhaps disturb the wildlife, but I do it anyway, because it's fun.

Phil I'm not sure I agree with your statement about unarmed populous being servants. Throughout most of the 'western' world's rise to power, the populus has been armed. Even in the medieval era, with knights and horses, I'd expect most people had arms. Be it swords, arrows or hot oil catapults instead of guns, but those armed people still had to 'serve' the king of the era, or the caeser or head of state.

Yes there is a risk of excessive tyranny if the powers have arms and the populus does not, but I'd expect we'd all fall into that situation even now. I think your tanks, jets, and boats would steamroll any revolution that evoked from within the USA.

[JimW]

I agree with phil and kato.

I personally don't feel a need to carry a gun everywhere I go since the crime rate in my area is very low anyway. I think sometimes carrying a gun for self defense purposes gives a person a false sense of security.

On your last statement turbo. The Brits were a super power when they had control of the US. An excellent navy as well as a well trained army, and still couldn't beat a bunch of untrained colonist, so just because a country has tanks, jets and other high tec weapons doesn't automatically give them a win.

On hunting. Personally, I don't hunt, but it's not because I feel bad when an animal gets killed. I just flat don't like to hunt. What I have to say might rile some of you, but I have my reasons. First off, if you take guns away from hunters you'll see alot more inhumane treatment of animals if that really bothers you. Try clubing a deer to death and see how pretty it is. I've had people tell me about running them down in thier trucks and beating them to death with bricks and other things. Take guns away and there's a good chance more of that will happen. I don't condone that kind of treatment of living things, I'm just explaining my point. In my part of the country, without hunters the wildlife population would get so far out of hand that a man couldn't raise a crop. As a matter of fact I've had plenty of problems with it myself. In the past 10 years, there have been several crops lost to the increase in wildlife amounting from 10,000 to 20,000 dollars a year. I don't think you would stand for that very long. Now, I don't rely fully on farming for a living anymore but I'm not going to allow the wildlife to take money out of my pocket either. The state gives me deer tags every fall to give away to hunters to try to get them under control, but they don't reimburse me the lost dollars, if they did, maybe my feelings toward the deer would change. It's gotten to the point seeing one pisses me off anymore. I could take it in my own hands and just start killing them just to watch them fall and at times the thought has occured to me, but the human side of me stops me from doing it. Put yourself in my shoes for a while and think it over.

[boost_addict]

Originally Posted by JimW

On hunting. Personally, I don't hunt, but it's not because I feel bad when an animal gets killed. I just flat don't like to hunt. What I have to say might rile some of you, but I have my reasons. First off, if you take guns away from hunters you'll see alot more inhumane treatment of animals if that really bothers you. Try clubing a deer to death and see how pretty it is. I've had people tell me about running them down in thier trucks and beating them to death with bricks and other things. Take guns away and there's a good chance more of that will happen. I don't condone that kind of treatment of living things, I'm just explaining my point. In my part of the country, without hunters the wildlife population would get so far out of hand that a man couldn't raise a crop. As a matter of fact I've had plenty of problems with it myself. In the past 10 years, there have been several crops lost to the increase in wildlife amounting from 10,000 to 20,000 dollars a year. I don't think you would stand for that very long. Now, I don't rely fully on farming for a living anymore but I'm not going to allow the wildlife to take money out of my pocket either. The state gives me deer tags every fall to give away to hunters to try to get them under control, but they don't reimburse me the lost dollars, if they did, maybe my feelings toward the deer would change. It's gotten to the point seeing one pisses me off anymore. I could take it in my own hands and just start killing them just to watch them fall and at times the thought has occured to me, but the human side of me stops me from doing it. Put yourself in my shoes for a while and think it over.

You raise another good point on the animal population control.
On Vancouver island the cougar population was left unchecked for a long time and deer were plentiful so the cougar population exploded. Now there are very few deer on the island and most of the ones that are left have moved into the city limits to try and get away from the cougars. The fish and wildlife branch realised the problem (although very late) and they increased the number of cougars allowed to be killed and extended the open seasons, while at the same time putting limits on the deer hunting."
The deer population on the island is starting to recover but it's a long road ahead.

[JimW]

Yes, it can be challenging to keep the balance. In just the past couple of years there's been a few sightings of cougars showing up in my area. I've only seen one a couple of years ago but it's a sign that nature is trying to get hold of the problem. That is if people will allow it. I have a nieghbor that shoots any preditor and hangs it on the nearest fence. I really rubs me the wrong way for a man to kill for the sake of killing things. There's a bitch coyote that follows me around the field when I'm plowing and get's pretty close to my tractor, maybe 10 to 20ft away hoping a rabbit or field mouse will run out so she'll have something to eat or take to her pups. When the deer hunters come to hunt they offer to kill the coyotes around. I tell them no, and to leave them alone. They respond with they'll kill your cows. Well, in all the years I can remember I've never seen a coyote kill a cow or calf, but I have seen people's dogs running in packs killing livestock. There aren't a lot of preditors in my area and that's why the deer and other animals have gotten out of control.

[FastDoc]

2 legged preditors are the risk. I'd love to see a cougar. Beautiful animal. One of God's most beautiful creations. Ditto a bear or whatever.

Featherless bipeds are the only real hazard, although I do blast rattlesnakes if I find them on my property. I don't what them to hurt me or kill my cats.

I maintain the ability to protect myself and my loved ones, or other innocents, 24/7.

God bless America.

[TheRealWorld]

FastDoc,

Thanks for weighing in with your great comments.

[FastDoc]

Originally Posted by TheRealWorld

FastDoc,

Thanks for weighing in with your great comments.

Thanks. My feelings on this are strong and I've been laying low so as to not be too opinionated. 8)

[JimW]

I was reluctant to offer an opinion too. Rattlesnakes , I kill too, but any non-poisoness snake is free to roam on my property. I've watched alot of preditors hunt near me when I'm on a tractor. Once, I had a hawk nail a cottontail right in front of the tractor and had to stop to keep from running over him because the rabbit was too heavy and he couldn't take flight so he dragged it out of the way.

[TurboT]

Originally Posted by FastDoc

Thanks. My feelings on this are strong and I've been laying low so as to not be too opinionated. 8)

Hahaha.. I usually keep my mouth shut too but I thought I'd crank everyone up a little.

JimW:

I'm curious what the deer do to your crops? Is it simply a matter of them eating the goods? Or is it something else?

[JimW]

Turbo,

It depends on the crops. Wheat they graze next to the ground and will continue grazing on it until past time for it to head out, by then its too late to for the plant to produce. Sorghum or milo as we call it once it heads out they bite the heads off leaving nothing to harvest. Just a stalk sticking up. I don't bother to raise milo anymore because they love it and won't stop until every kernel is gone

[Brainsquishy]

Originally Posted by TheRealWorld

I live in Wisconsin, and I am in agreement with our Constitutional right to bear arms. I would like to know some honest opinions of you guys in Canada. You won't hurt my feelings, but I would love your perspective on the American laws and the Canadian Laws.

Hmmm....

My take on the difference between the US and Canadian view on guns and how they are used has more to do with the common trend of the two differing societies. It may be hard for most (not all) Americans to see it, but our Canadian identity is that we tend to think of "we". We don't have the same sink or swim stance that seems to be prominent in the US. Canadians don't worry as much about affording basic health care and the like. We seem to look after each other differently that the US generally does. I don't mean the ones that swim, they do fine. It's the people who don't catch a break, get laid off or screwed by the company the work for, develop clinical depression, that seem get tossed aside. I think that makes for some pretty jaded individuals. Not to say we don't have them here, but the US system doesn't seem to have a problem with that.
Shooting another person is not high on the minds of the general Canadian population. Weather it is in self defense, or to rob a store.

It also seems that the more urbanized people get, the more disconnected they become from "the real world". At least the one that feeds them anyway. The gangs running loose in the bigger cities run with a culture completely contrary to that of the people they live among and I doubt any of the gun toting thugs give a damn about anyone outside of their "club".
They only abide by a law (respect for their fellow man/woman/child) so the enforcement officers don't sniff them out. These people will NEVER be affected by ANY gun laws the rest of us are made to follow. I wish people would stop trying to connect gun laws with criminals, they don't care about our laws.
I do agree that people need to be screened in an effective manner prior to owning a gun. Jerks need not apply.
I don't think we all need machine guns here in Canada, unless you really like to grease bowling pins at a controlled venue. There are several people I have met through the years that would make me very nervous if they had one. I do think I should be able to shoot any kind of gun I want at the farm, because as a human I am naturally self delusional, but I sometimes seem to be the only one who accepts that fact. I will give up the need to own a machine gun because I don't want those other guys I mentioned (who likely would pass the normal screening methods of the local firearms officer) to get one. Seems safer that way for my kids etc.

I do agree with scrapping the long gun registry as it does very little to help with the in the suffering of people in this country. Use of the billions it cost us would certainly have been put to far better use. It was also the idea of URBANIZED folks.

Now hunting with guns is not in anyway related to this discussion. We are humans, we kill and eat. If you have a problem with eating meat and not killing it yourself, you may need to think about that. I know I don't. Hunting and eating meat goes back along way. If you want to force humans to evolve to be utopian, then we won't be human any more. Humans are what they are. We need laws that work, not ones that try to force idealism. And any talk of "evil" is likely going to be dismissed by most. Evil is an idealism, what is evil to you is completely justified by someone else. Who's evil are we discussing?
Although I live in a city, my heart is always in the forest. Hunting, off roading and adventuring puts us outside. That in itself is not the norm these days. Chinabikers, and hunters etc are NOT NORMAL. There should be more of us. I find it hard to see kids playing in the park next to my house. Everybody is inside and completely out of touch with the natural world and the "dirty" things that make it work. Hunting nourishes the mind, and my stomach. A good deal.
Even though I have met some really foul hunters, they never scared me more than walking the streets of the city.

Now I can't say I am completely aware of US gun laws, but I am to be under the opinion they are more lax than here in Canada. Although Canadians own a whopping pile of guns, they are by far used for legitimate "tool" usage. Not many (I have never met one who told me) use guns for home protection etc. They are all supposedly locked up and the ammo stored separately. Although, I would love to have a readily accessible .45 semiauto in my bedroom to take out anyone who dared to hurt my family. (There was a home invasion around the corner last year.)
I am forced to combat local neighborhood crime a different way. I don't put up with any drug dealers or users anywhere near my house. Zero tolerance. If I even get a whiff of them I meet them head on, and literally drive them out of my neighborhood. It is scary (unarmed) and I know I am going to get injured or possible killed one day doing it, but I have no choice. The cops won't/can't do it. If I used a gun to do this, I'm sure the cops would have me locked up, but the vast majority of the punks I confront run. They are like cockroaches when the light hits them. I call the cops for the ones that want a fight. I love seeing them on their bellies with a cops boot on their neck. Not being armed makes me a longer lived fighter. I need to keep my cool and think, not blindly spray bullets.
I must state my thugs are not as organized as in many other places and I can't comment on how another neighborhood would combat this, but we don't hear guns at night hear. Another problem is that I am the only person in my entire neighborhood who actually confronts and drives out criminals. Every single other person is scared to stand up for their families in a direct manor. My count so far is three drug houses driven out and 9 arrested. 20 or so just run off.
I dream of moving to a big farm on the edge of town one day soon.

If laws are required, they need to be put in place to deal with criminals, not made to turn good people into criminals.

US society is not likely to change much unless there is a bigger revolt against the corporate interest there. They control much of what hits the media and work to get people elected who further their goals. The US right to bear arms has little to do with the high body count. That has more to do with how people can find a way to justifiably (in their minds) hurt and take from one another. Maybe a bit more "common good" than me me me.
IMO

[TheRealWorld]

Wow that was a long thought out page! Thanks for contributing.

Brainsquishy Said

"I do agree with scrapping the long gun registry as it does very little to help with the in the suffering of people in this country. Use of the billions it cost us would certainly have been put to far better use. It was also the idea of URBANIZED folks".

That was one of the reasons I started this thread, I was wondering what you Canadians thought about that. People ask me why we have the bazaar situations in the US with the use of guns and the violence and I have an answer but it is so long, I have a hard time explaining it. I may yet, when I have time.