New water cooled Sportster 1200

[wheelbender6]

The new Sportster 1200S will come equipped with a water cooled DOHC engine, similar to the one in the Pan America. You can still get one with the pushrod engine if you want to go old school.
https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-feat...unveiling.html

[TxTaoRider]

Here's the only real problem I see. The real harley guys wont buy it and neither the metric bike guys.

A few years ago I had a friend that bought a harley night rod. It was actually pretty smooth and relatively quick. He'd go out and the Harley guys would snub him like it wasn't a real Harley, and the metric guys didnt care for it because ...it was a Harley. Lol. Buell had the same issue.

[Emerikol]

I didn't think it was possible, but Harley just keeps on making all the wrong moves as a company. They did a really good job creating an image of the Harley as Joe-Blue-Collar's bike, but then they put the prices through the roof. The working class schmuck they're pitching their bikes to can't afford $50-$60k for what is essentially a toy to have in the garage. Then they went and made a whole lot of software updates to their bikes so that only Harley dealerships can repair them (Why is there even anything that's computer controlled on a Harley in the first place?!). Finally, they're just really not following the demographic of the people who actually are buying their bikes. They're just throwing whatever they want out there, and seeing what sticks. It reminds me of the Japanese sedan takeover of the 80's. The domestic manufacturers had acres of cars sitting on the lots and in storage areas because Americans didn't want to buy that crap. The Japanese manufacturers came in and decimated domestic auto purchasing. The Japanese made simple, efficient, well-styled vehicles that Americans actually wanted to drive. With what I'm seeing, it's pretty much exactly what's going on with Harley now...

[wheelbender6]

Indian uses water cooler, DOHC engine and they are doing pretty well.

[2LZ]

I love all the people who have opinions on Harley's who would never buy one anyway. It's the best part.

[Emerikol]

Originally Posted by wheelbender6

Indian uses water cooler, DOHC engine and they are doing pretty well.

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I love all the people who have opinions on Harley's who would never buy one anyway. It's the best part.

Bender, you're 100% correct that Indian uses modern engines in their bikes. They're doing pretty well because they're iconic to an era (coincidentally, the era that remembers the original Indians), and the target audience are now doctors, lawyers, executives, etc. and are more than happy to plop down that kind of money for nostalgia. Indian has also done a much better job of making their motorcycles reliable. Harley was a very simple, bulletproof design, and then the quality control really started slipping. It was so bad for a few years that Harleys had Kawasaki engines. The Indian brand is very good at what they do, and they stick to it. They make no bones about who they are, and who their target buyer is.

2LZ, also a correct statement. While I wouldn't turn down an old Harley that was given to me, I certainly wouldn't spend any money on one. I think that Harley-Davidson has a very rich and interesting history, but they've been riding the gravy train for too long without doing anything to appeal to a larger market segment. Everything they do as far as new bikes or trying to break into a new market just seems half-assed to me. Like "We're going to make this bike, that does this thing, but we're only making it because we expect people to buy it because it says 'Harley' on the side. But we don't really want to make this bike that does this thing, because that's not what 'Harley' is all about..." I dunno The entire business model and operational ethos just doesn't appeal to me. On top of that, I've met some super nice Harley riders, who were happy to sit and chat about other bikes, and even go as far as trade bikes for a section of riding. On the other hand, the overwhelming number of Harley riders I've met are fully convinced that if it's not a Harley, it's not even a real motorcycle, and they're full of conviction for that mentality as well. I'm perfectly happy to have a conversation about motorcycles (or airplanes, or motorcycles that turn into airplanes, or pretty much anything else under the sun, for that matter), and I'm not going to look down on anyone for the choices they make in motorcycle purchases. If the bike they buy makes them happy, then I'm happy for them! The happiness of a friend is a blessing. I just know that a Harley wouldn't make me happy, so I don't have one.

[TxTaoRider]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I love all the people who have opinions on Harley's who would never buy one anyway. It's the best part.

I cant speak for the others, but for me you're mostly right. I liked my buddies night rod but would never have paid what he paid for it. I've got a 82 gs1100e that I paid $1200 for that isn't as pretty, but will do everything it did just as well (I never raced him but I think I could've beat him).

I have looked at a couple of the big Buells for sale around here, as I like the idea of a big torquey twin in a decent handling frame, but then I go home, jump on my nearly 40 year old air cooled 4 cylinder and realize that it's got everything I need.

The point I'm making, if I have one, is there are so many great bikes out there than will do everything as well or better than HDs at a fraction of the cost. Nostalgia is only worth so much.

HD has made its name selling bikes to a particular group of people, ones that think of hitting the road on a v twin machine and the sounds and vibrations that go with it. The problem is they need to either change their image to suit younger people, or start a new brand that sells to the rest of the market place with more competitive pricing and modern designs.

Either way, no matter what they do, they are going to have a hard time. Most of the the major bike brands are struggling and the current push to end ICE engines in general isn't going to make it easier.

[wheelbender6]

Originally Posted by 2LZ

I love all the people who have opinions on Harley's who would never buy one anyway. It's the best part.

I am not likely to get a Harley, but I do check out the prices of used Sportsters a few times a month on Craigslist. I think they make great commuters and weekenders.

However, I am not one of the guys that would buy a new 1200 Sportster S or one of the other premium Harleys. In that respect, 2LZ certainly has a point.

I very much want Harley to succeed, whether they do it with pushrod mills, water cooled mills or electric motors.

[2LZ]

All great point, guys.

My line of thinking is this. I like all bikes, whether they're Japanese, German, Swedish, Chinese or American or take yer pick. Does that mean I'll run out and buy a brand new "anything" other than a cheap Chinese bike online? Nope. Whether it's a Harley, Yamaha, Kawalski, KTM, etc..... I simply don't want to spend that kind of money, especially with dealer markup, fees and whatever else the dealer dreams up to line-item. Heck, even my brick and mortar China dealer here is an average of 500.00 more than buying from a drop-ship website with zero after-sale service. I get it, he has to keep the doors open, but I'd rather assemble it myself.

Now, if we want to broad brush a particular group of riders (a bad idea to begin with), at least here in Nor Cal, I can tell you this for certain. I get far worse attitudes and "noses in the air" out of the wanna-be, super ADV rider on his Beemer, that's had the entire catalog of accessories thrown at the bike and rider, than I get out of any Harley guys I run across at our local haunts. That said, I give every human a chance for a smile and some good conversation, regardless of what they ride or how they're dressed. After all, I just pulled up on my China bike. They're giving me a chance, right?

Back to the thread at hand, I think it's a good idea for HD to try a bunch of other things. They're finally getting involved with other manufacturers (in earnest) and that's probably a good thing. As some may remember, after I sold my last Harley, I became a huge Victory supporter. "The New American Motorcycle" was the saying.....until the closed up shop on me and put all the eggs in the Indian Basket. To me, Victory always needed an entry-level bike. A Sportster, if you will. You have to get people to come in through the door, and an affordable, smaller, shiny bike will do just that.

Speaking of Sportsters, Mrs. 2LZ would love to have another. Her little 883 was a hoot to ride and never gave a lick of trouble. Looking back, I should have got the 1200 kit for that, instead of spending a bunch of money upgrading her to a brand new Kingpin. She barely touches it now because we never highway ride anymore. I bet if she still had her little blue Sporty, she'd probably be on it all the time.

[J4Fun]

Hey all, I have an '03 HD V-Rod that I bought from a guy that won it in a raffle for half price in '03 with only 300 miles on it, lucky I guess. It only has 2600 miles on it today! Harley's are nice bikes and I believe my other bike is too, a '20 Hawk DLX with about 30 miles on it... my thoughts are what makes you happy is what you should have. In other words I'm not concerned too much what others will think about my two very nice bikes and both bikes are cool to me

[Emerikol]

As luck would have it, Ryan over at FortNine has just posted another fantastic video on... You guessed it... Harleys.

[wheelbender6]

More pics at the link.
I like the exhaust. Reminds me of the XR 1200.
https://www.motorcycle.com/mini-feat...irst-look.html

[rich_e]

I just got a 2000 Sportster 1200 C. First Harley I've ever ridden. It's nice around town. And the torque is awesome. I love ripping through the gears. At highway speeds there is some vibration (not a rubber mounted engine). But it's already leaked more oil on my garage floor in a week than my 1976 MGB did in the 5 years I had it parked in the same spot. There's no helmet lock, and I'll need to buy chrome polish by the gallon. My Honda CB-750 and GL-1000 are just as fast and tens times smoother. Heck, even the 1998 Vulcan 750 I had, which was also a v-twin, was a better rider than the Sportster.

They just dropped their street series (500 and 750cc V-Twins). Those seemed like nice machines but bombed in the market. I don't know what makes them this new design will win anyone over. They Harley guys with the "big twin" will say it's a nice beginner bike or even call it a girls bike.

[2LZ]

Originally Posted by rich_e

But it's already leaked more oil on my garage floor in a week than my 1976 MGB did in the 5 years I had it parked in the same spot. .

Check the oil lines. If they're original, they probably need changing.