Don't berate me.. just valve question I can't figure out

Plump Kibbles · 06-16-2021, 10:07 PM

I'm at 518mi. - had three oil changes since getting it, swapping the fluid and doing the valves.. Now, when I did the valves, I was still under 100mi. and did the intake at .002 and exhaust at .003 per another users expertise on the adjustments.

Now I'm at 518mi., and was suggested to check the valves around 500mi. so, that I did. They were very, very tight like before. I also have changed carbs and swapped out the main jet for a 110 - and set the intake for .003, exhaust for .004.... and this is where it gets sticky. When I finished up, I started the bike and immediately noticed a very prominent 'tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick'.... during the tear down, I swapped out the ignition coil for one of the 'performance' coils; I'm not exactly sure if this is what's being heard, or if it is the valves.. but I'm not too sure what to do at this point. I'm going to go over it again tomorrow and re-do the valves for intake .002, exhaust .003 like before and see what happens. . . And was at TDC like I should have been.

It has been a while since I've been on here - I know valves are a common thing but I wouldn't think I could have any internal issues at 518mi... but I could be absolutely wrong.. Before the adjustment, tight valves, no ticks - ran actually pretty darn good. Did the adjustment around 100mi. and still no ticks, still ran good. Can't keep up enough for interstate, but I have enough back roads to compensate... but I'm about to go out on a ride THIS Friday - and this happens..

Does anyone have any suggestions aside readjusting the valves back down to where I was (.002 / .003)?? Along with the main jet, I have changed the CDI and ignition coil - came with the 'kit' and put it on.. I was running it without the coil with the new CDI just last night to try an LED headlight out and no problems.. maybe I botched the valves...

Thanks in advance!

Big Bird · 06-16-2021, 10:27 PM

It needs to be tdc on the compression stroke. Which comes after the intake valve closes in the cycle.

China Rider 27 · 06-16-2021, 10:29 PM

Sounds like they are on the loose side but that is better than too tight. I set mine to .07mm (emphasis mm!) intake and .08mm Exhaust and I notice no excessive valve noise. I would recheck your valve work, rotate the engine and check all again to be sure. Here is a good thread on it.

http://www.chinariders.net/showthrea...t=25660&page=2

duck9191 · 06-16-2021, 10:41 PM

If the valves are silent they are to tight, there should be a slight tap. The coil wouldn't cause any noise unless it was some how causing pre ignition. It won't hurt to check them again though just to make sure you are inspec.

Plump Kibbles · 06-16-2021, 11:01 PM

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

I was doing some research.. and yeah everything is coming back 'too much gap' to me.. DOH!

Yes to all - I did have TDC in the right spot. Luckily, I have only one mark to align the compression stroke! Made sure with the plug out too. I didn't have the bike on at all very long before shutting it down and kinda stepping back and thinking 'uh, I don't have a machine gun..' lol

I don't have the 4mm square bit to adjust with, I printed off an adjustment tool I found on Thinigiverse for the CRF230 - works well. But, doesn't allow me to hold the position and tighten the nut - can't fit a knuckle buster in there either, GAH!

Second time doing the valves; first time for a lot of maintenance actually. First valve adjustment, no idea how, I didn't remove the tank.. just the front fenders, and no issues.. geez.

Thanks again, everyone! I'll give 'er a shot tomorrow and see how it goes. I'll post up my results too.

I DO have some GoPro footage I'm going to try uploading too! My CRF230 clone Vs. my buddies Yamaha Tenere 700 (beeeeast)! Surprisingly CLOSE!

TxTaoRider · 06-17-2021, 05:43 AM

After adjusting the valves I usually turn the crank a time or two and recheck my gaps. Sometimes they magically seem a little looser or tighter. I'll reset them if needed and turn it again to check again to be sure.

ChillRider · 06-17-2021, 06:09 AM

I second what TxTaoRider said -always check and re-check the valves with a turn of the crankshaft, after you're done setting them. For me they always seemed to get a tad looser the first time -which, since I set them at the maximum gap limit, meant that they went out-of-spec.

My trick was to use one feeler gauge size smaller than the intended, and be a bit sloppy about passing it (not trying to get it super-squeezy-tight or crunched by the tappets). Then they were spot-on for the next bigger gauge size -and, most importantly, remained so after several verification turns.

Deckard_Cain · 06-17-2021, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plump Kibbles

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

I was doing some research.. and yeah everything is coming back 'too much gap' to me.. DOH!

Yes to all - I did have TDC in the right spot. Luckily, I have only one mark to align the compression stroke! Made sure with the plug out too. I didn't have the bike on at all very long before shutting it down and kinda stepping back and thinking 'uh, I don't have a machine gun..' lol

I don't have the 4mm square bit to adjust with, I printed off an adjustment tool I found on Thinigiverse for the CRF230 - works well. But, doesn't allow me to hold the position and tighten the nut - can't fit a knuckle buster in there either, GAH!

Second time doing the valves; first time for a lot of maintenance actually. First valve adjustment, no idea how, I didn't remove the tank.. just the front fenders, and no issues.. geez.

Thanks again, everyone! I'll give 'er a shot tomorrow and see how it goes. I'll post up my results too.

I DO have some GoPro footage I'm going to try uploading too! My CRF230 clone Vs. my buddies Yamaha Tenere 700 (beeeeast)! Surprisingly CLOSE!

I too often print motorcycle parts, accessories and tools!

Although on the valve adjustments, I bought the Motion Pro tool to adjust the valves, hold them and tighten the locknut. I've used it on no less than 4 machines. It's worth it's weight in stamped steel.

herbie · 06-17-2021, 10:01 AM

The best method for me for valve lash adjustments is the go-no go method. Say you are setting the intake at .002 (thousands) then you would use a .002 and .003 feeler gauge. Adjust to your .002 until you feel a little drag on the feeler gauge and if you can't slide the .003 in the gap then you have a perfect adjustment.

KenTaoyan · 06-17-2021, 11:15 AM

I posted this information before based on my learning curve. (slow) Seams like it has already been answered but here are my 2 cents with a little more detail that I found to be useful...

Valve lash - It came from China with “0” clearance. There is extensive information on this topic but I needed further description on “Top Dead Center, Compression stroke” (yeah I am a newbie motorcycle mechanic.) With the valve cover off, rotate the motor counter clockwise until you see the Intake valve close. Slowly keep turning until you first see a double line then a line with an “F” and then finally come to rest on the line with the “T”. I found it tough to tighten the nut down and stopping the adjustment screw from turning as well. I found that if I tightened the nut down on a .005 feeler gauge it would create a snug .003 on the intake valve and a .006 on the Exhaust valve it would create a .004.(Some clicking is expected.) How much clicking? Mine has a slight click sound and my hawk runs awesome.

Merlin · 06-17-2021, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plump Kibbles

I'm at 518mi. - had three oil changes since getting it, swapping the fluid and doing the valves.. Now, when I did the valves, I was still under 100mi. and did the intake at .002 and exhaust at .003 per another users expertise on the adjustments.

Now I'm at 518mi., and was suggested to check the valves around 500mi. so, that I did. They were very, very tight like before. I also have changed carbs and swapped out the main jet for a 110 - and set the intake for .003, exhaust for .004.... and this is where it gets sticky. When I finished up, I started the bike and immediately noticed a very prominent 'tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick'.... during the tear down, I swapped out the ignition coil for one of the 'performance' coils; I'm not exactly sure if this is what's being heard, or if it is the valves.. but I'm not too sure what to do at this point. I'm going to go over it again tomorrow and re-do the valves for intake .002, exhaust .003 like before and see what happens. . . And was at TDC like I should have been.

It has been a while since I've been on here - I know valves are a common thing but I wouldn't think I could have any internal issues at 518mi... but I could be absolutely wrong.. Before the adjustment, tight valves, no ticks - ran actually pretty darn good. Did the adjustment around 100mi. and still no ticks, still ran good. Can't keep up enough for interstate, but I have enough back roads to compensate... but I'm about to go out on a ride THIS Friday - and this happens..

Does anyone have any suggestions aside readjusting the valves back down to where I was (.002 / .003)?? Along with the main jet, I have changed the CDI and ignition coil - came with the 'kit' and put it on.. I was running it without the coil with the new CDI just last night to try an LED headlight out and no problems.. maybe I botched the valves...

Thanks in advance!

A tappy engine is a happy engine.

stewbrash · 06-17-2021, 12:02 PM

My method to do the valves seems to work without a hitch. After you feel confident you are on TDC after the intake stroke, get your feeler gauge under the tappet...snug down the square 4mm adjustment nipple with your fingers...then, after you put the closed-end wrench on the locking-nut...grab the square 4mm nipple with a small pair of needle-nosed vice-grips...fine-tune the tappet with the feeler gauge and pliers...lock down the nut...voila! Then release the vice-grips, rotate the engine 2 times (counter-clockwise), check with feeler gauge again...should be perfect.

ChillRider · 06-17-2021, 12:20 PM

There's an excellent video on how to adjust valves on the Yamaha TW200, which applies almost verbatim to the Zongshen Sierra, and of course I studied carefully before doing anything.

The take away point, however, was this: instead of second guessing whether you're on TDC right after a compression or an exhaust stroke, just try to feel the valves: they will be very tight/have no play at all if you're on an exhaust stroke (you want to be on a compression stroke). At least that was true for the Yamaha/Yamaha clone engine, but I imagine it's valid for other thumper engines too.

Now, imagine if you "loosened up" your valves while on an exhaust stroke

stewbrash · 06-17-2021, 12:51 PM

This video is an excellent teaching-tool for those of us who are 'not quite sure' about things! The only issue I have is that you should only tighten the lock-nut down with a closed-end wrench...firmly...while keeping your nipple-tool/vice grips attached. Using the torque wrench WILL only tighten the adjustment nipple you so carefully set. BAD MOJO! There is a tool you can obtain, which is a wrench-head attached to 1/4" ratchet-head...which attaches to your torque wrench, but to me that's getting carried away. Just FIRMLY tighten with the wrench. I've never had a problem.

Plump Kibbles · 06-18-2021, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckard_Cain

I too often print motorcycle parts, accessories and tools!

Although on the valve adjustments, I bought the Motion Pro tool to adjust the valves, hold them and tighten the locknut. I've used it on no less than 4 machines. It's worth it's weight in stamped steel.

I'm going to have to look into that tool - the printed piece does work for the gap, but yeah can't hold the setting and tighten the lock nut! And of course the local auto shop doesn't have any - order only. I have an STL for the swing arm chain guide and the rear chain guide insert. Getting my ABS down first!

Thanks again everyone - I'm finding little caveats that kinda wig me out sometimes - all the time. Like when the clutch lever went flying off for no reason lol THAT was fun - on the road too!

Got it all right this time - took little time like usual, just had to play with it for a bit to get it just right. Ended up keeping the first gap size I used, .002in for the intake, .003in exhaust. She taps! But not like before sheesh lol just a nice tap happy engine! The new coil and CDI are definitely a keeper! Started on the first spark, had to warm up a bit on a cold start as usual, but no issues at all! Just my jumping to worst case scenario as usual.. My first bike I literally had to do everything for maintenance. Don't mind it at all, I like the dirt and such. Just not a true 'grease monkey' just yet lol So yeah kind of a false alarm

All ready for the ride tomorrow!

Trying to find some riders around my area too - are there any posts about group rides??

06-16-2021, 10:07 PM	#1
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	Don't berate me.. just valve question I can't figure out I'm at 518mi. - had three oil changes since getting it, swapping the fluid and doing the valves.. Now, when I did the valves, I was still under 100mi. and did the intake at .002 and exhaust at .003 per another users expertise on the adjustments. Now I'm at 518mi., and was suggested to check the valves around 500mi. so, that I did. They were very, very tight like before. I also have changed carbs and swapped out the main jet for a 110 - and set the intake for .003, exhaust for .004.... and this is where it gets sticky. When I finished up, I started the bike and immediately noticed a very prominent 'tick tick tick tick tick tick tick tick'.... during the tear down, I swapped out the ignition coil for one of the 'performance' coils; I'm not exactly sure if this is what's being heard, or if it is the valves.. but I'm not too sure what to do at this point. I'm going to go over it again tomorrow and re-do the valves for intake .002, exhaust .003 like before and see what happens. . . And was at TDC like I should have been. It has been a while since I've been on here - I know valves are a common thing but I wouldn't think I could have any internal issues at 518mi... but I could be absolutely wrong.. Before the adjustment, tight valves, no ticks - ran actually pretty darn good. Did the adjustment around 100mi. and still no ticks, still ran good. Can't keep up enough for interstate, but I have enough back roads to compensate... but I'm about to go out on a ride THIS Friday - and this happens.. Does anyone have any suggestions aside readjusting the valves back down to where I was (.002 / .003)?? Along with the main jet, I have changed the CDI and ignition coil - came with the 'kit' and put it on.. I was running it without the coil with the new CDI just last night to try an LED headlight out and no problems.. maybe I botched the valves... Thanks in advance! __________________ \|2020 X-Pro Titan DLX\| <-- FOR SALE!!
	0

06-16-2021, 10:27 PM	#2
Big Bird Join Date: May 2020 Location: California Posts: 169	It needs to be tdc on the compression stroke. Which comes after the intake valve closes in the cycle. __________________ 2020 Boom Vader Gen 2 2019 CSC TT250 2021 Kayo Fox 70
	2

06-16-2021, 10:41 PM	#4
duck9191 Join Date: May 2019 Location: Port Huron, Michigan Posts: 637	If the valves are silent they are to tight, there should be a slight tap. The coil wouldn't cause any noise unless it was some how causing pre ignition. It won't hurt to check them again though just to make sure you are inspec. __________________ 2020 Triumph Tiger 900 rally. 2018 Bashan Storm 250. pz30b, digital cluster + gear indicator, unifilter and car customs full exhaust. 2019 Taotao 110b boulder atv. The "arm breaker" lol 2007 Honda VTX 1300R. 1974 Suzuki tm125, work in progress 2001 Suzuki Drz 400s.
	2

06-16-2021, 11:01 PM	#5
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	THANK YOU EVERYONE! I was doing some research.. and yeah everything is coming back 'too much gap' to me.. DOH! Yes to all - I did have TDC in the right spot. Luckily, I have only one mark to align the compression stroke! Made sure with the plug out too. I didn't have the bike on at all very long before shutting it down and kinda stepping back and thinking 'uh, I don't have a machine gun..' lol I don't have the 4mm square bit to adjust with, I printed off an adjustment tool I found on Thinigiverse for the CRF230 - works well. But, doesn't allow me to hold the position and tighten the nut - can't fit a knuckle buster in there either, GAH! Second time doing the valves; first time for a lot of maintenance actually. First valve adjustment, no idea how, I didn't remove the tank.. just the front fenders, and no issues.. geez. Thanks again, everyone! I'll give 'er a shot tomorrow and see how it goes. I'll post up my results too. I DO have some GoPro footage I'm going to try uploading too! My CRF230 clone Vs. my buddies Yamaha Tenere 700 (beeeeast)! Surprisingly CLOSE! __________________ \|2020 X-Pro Titan DLX\| <-- FOR SALE!!
	1

06-17-2021, 05:43 AM	#6
TxTaoRider Join Date: Oct 2020 Location: Flower Mound Texas Posts: 904	After adjusting the valves I usually turn the crank a time or two and recheck my gaps. Sometimes they magically seem a little looser or tighter. I'll reset them if needed and turn it again to check again to be sure. __________________ 2021 Tao Tbr7 - "Lucille" Mods so far- Brozz swingarm, 21" front rim (Bridgestone Tw302 rear/Dunlop D606 front tires), Digital gauge cluster, pz30b pumper carb, after market hand guards, aftermarket brake and clutch levers, round fold away mirrors, Fly handlebars shortened slightly, 13t front sprocket 2009 Q-link Legacy 250 1982 Suzuki GS1100ES - "Jolene"
	3

06-16-2021, 10:29 PM	#3
China Rider 27 Join Date: Dec 2018 Location: PNW Posts: 982	Sounds like they are on the loose side but that is better than too tight. I set mine to .07mm (emphasis mm!) intake and .08mm Exhaust and I notice no excessive valve noise. I would recheck your valve work, rotate the engine and check all again to be sure. Here is a good thread on it. http://www.chinariders.net/showthrea...t=25660&page=2
	1

06-17-2021, 06:09 AM	#7
ChillRider Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: A small country with a funny name Posts: 164	I second what TxTaoRider said -always check and re-check the valves with a turn of the crankshaft, after you're done setting them. For me they always seemed to get a tad looser the first time -which, since I set them at the maximum gap limit, meant that they went out-of-spec. My trick was to use one feeler gauge size smaller than the intended, and be a bit sloppy about passing it (not trying to get it super-squeezy-tight or crunched by the tappets). Then they were spot-on for the next bigger gauge size -and, most importantly, remained so after several verification turns.
	1

06-17-2021, 10:01 AM	#9
herbie Join Date: May 2019 Location: Illinois Posts: 863	The best method for me for valve lash adjustments is the go-no go method. Say you are setting the intake at .002 (thousands) then you would use a .002 and .003 feeler gauge. Adjust to your .002 until you feel a little drag on the feeler gauge and if you can't slide the .003 in the gap then you have a perfect adjustment. __________________ 2022 Venom KPR 200 Red- the fastest color 16t and 46t sprockets, NGK Iridium CPR8EAIX-9, aftermarket full exhaust system. Top speed 81GPS 2023 Venom SS3 KP mini 150– Nibbi carb, Nibbi air filter, aftermarket muffler, decat 2022 Venom Ghost chopper 250 1997 Honda GL1500 Goldwing 1978 Kawasaki KL250 https://youtube.com/@herbiesgarage681 Last edited by herbie; 06-17-2021 at 11:10 AM.
	3

06-17-2021, 11:15 AM	#10
KenTaoyan Join Date: May 2020 Location: Des Moines WA Posts: 81	I posted this information before based on my learning curve. (slow) Seams like it has already been answered but here are my 2 cents with a little more detail that I found to be useful... Valve lash - It came from China with “0” clearance. There is extensive information on this topic but I needed further description on “Top Dead Center, Compression stroke” (yeah I am a newbie motorcycle mechanic.) With the valve cover off, rotate the motor counter clockwise until you see the Intake valve close. Slowly keep turning until you first see a double line then a line with an “F” and then finally come to rest on the line with the “T”. I found it tough to tighten the nut down and stopping the adjustment screw from turning as well. I found that if I tightened the nut down on a .005 feeler gauge it would create a snug .003 on the intake valve and a .006 on the Exhaust valve it would create a .004.(Some clicking is expected.) How much clicking? Mine has a slight click sound and my hawk runs awesome. __________________ ~ toys in the cave (in the order of addition) 81 Honda XL185s {work in progress} 2015 TaoTao 125cc Quad {junk} 2018 QIYI Coolster 150cc Quad 2019 QIYI Coolster 125cc Quad 2020 Hawk 250cc (Brand New work in progress) 2021 Roughhouse 50 (neat little scooter for the wife) I may not be fast but I am "Half-Fast"
	1

06-17-2021, 12:20 PM	#13
ChillRider Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: A small country with a funny name Posts: 164	There's an excellent video on how to adjust valves on the Yamaha TW200, which applies almost verbatim to the Zongshen Sierra, and of course I studied carefully before doing anything. The take away point, however, was this: instead of second guessing whether you're on TDC right after a compression or an exhaust stroke, just try to feel the valves: they will be very tight/have no play at all if you're on an exhaust stroke (you want to be on a compression stroke). At least that was true for the Yamaha/Yamaha clone engine, but I imagine it's valid for other thumper engines too. Now, imagine if you "loosened up" your valves while on an exhaust stroke
	0

06-17-2021, 12:51 PM	#14
stewbrash Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 405	This video is an excellent teaching-tool for those of us who are 'not quite sure' about things! The only issue I have is that you should only tighten the lock-nut down with a closed-end wrench...firmly...while keeping your nipple-tool/vice grips attached. Using the torque wrench WILL only tighten the adjustment nipple you so carefully set. BAD MOJO! There is a tool you can obtain, which is a wrench-head attached to 1/4" ratchet-head...which attaches to your torque wrench, but to me that's getting carried away. Just FIRMLY tighten with the wrench. I've never had a problem.
	1