EPA violation RPS using some shady practices..

davisbm2 · 11-19-2018, 12:55 PM

Maybe we already knew this.. But I feel like RPS is using some pretty classic moves that I saw in China when I worked in manufacturing.

They dump a lot of semi-legal stuff on the US market then abandon ship after they make a chunk of change.. $50 says RPS will be gone in 5 years.

https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...rsportsllc.pdf

Also as of 2018 their "headquarters" has a big ol' for lease sign out front, maybe not for them but their building sure looks empty..

https://www.google.com/maps/place/26...!4d-96.8858147

Is this old news? What are your thoughts? It is just business...

DualSport · 11-19-2018, 04:43 PM

EPA violations? You don't even have to dig that deep... All their dealers back out of clear-cut warranty claims, and then when you try to deal with them directly it's basically what sounds like angry house wives and their grown man-kids who sound like they are about to tell a fart joke..

They are protected by legal loop holes like most Chinese dealers and importers though.. Ask anyone who has tried to file suit against one you'll end up suing a Chinese business and the CN government looks the other way with all the illegal reverse engineering and quality stuff that goes on in Shenzhen and other places.. It's even worse with electronics and electronic components.. You can probably buy a F-22 Raptor there that runs on Android or a rebranded Windows OS..

culcune · 11-20-2018, 12:36 AM

Several years ago the EPA cracked down on the numerous 'off-road' bikes that had full street equipment. Yet, this time around Hensim is doing it again. They have sold boatloads of Hawks that many members have plated for the street, yet the bike is clearly certified as an 'off-road motorcycle'. Their saving grace is individual states will plate off-road bikes with a minimum of street equipment. My only fear for them is they have full street equipment already attached which might get them in trouble with the feds. As far as 5 years...there are very few manufactures/importers/distributors who have been in the game for 5 years, let alone another 5. CSC will probably pull it off, RPS might if they don't get into trouble, Bashan, TMEC has been selling their 200 enduro for over 9 years.

NzBrakelathes · 11-20-2018, 03:50 AM

Chinese ways are not ways that help humanity or regard law safety or human rights in anyway shape or form.
MONEY and their Alphabet is 1st "i" and last "u"

davisbm2 · 11-20-2018, 09:48 AM

When I first bought a China bike the saying was, it is a good bike if you know how to wrench. Now I'm starting to realize it's a MASSIVE gamble buying from these companies.

I got a PM from a person who used to work for RPS. Let me just say AVOID BUYING ANYTHING FROM RPS!! There is all sorts of trickery, swapping VIN numbers, owners under federal investigation, shipping bikes that were dropped off the fork lift, shipping USED bikes.

It is a mess. You might get lucky with one batch of bikes, or you may just be throwing $1500 out the window. I wish I had known a bit more, I would have gone for a CSC TT250.

All that said, I still like my Magician. I just hope awesome forums like this provide some transparency for those considering an option like this. A lot of us buy China bikes because we don't have $6000 to blow but know we love to ride and wrench, so I hope we can help others spend what they do have on a trustworthy transaction.

culcune · 11-20-2018, 10:28 AM

From what I understand, RPS are really Hensim. Hensim already closed down once in the late 2000s due to EPA (and if I remember CARB violations. It was a shame at the time because they recently had introduced one of the first '250' Chinese dual sports, once Hibird's '250' dual sport was no longer available (Hibird offered their identical 200 for a while after). Hibird were sold via a mail order place in Oklahoma called VBike (among others) for a low price. The same place later brought in the Hensim, forebearer to the Hawk, which seemed to be a one or two container deal. Hensim's website teased a dirt bike 250 among their very small selection of product they offered, but never showed the photo. My belief is that the place in OK got a large container direct from China. Next thing you knew was that the company was in trouble for something involving cheating emissions (I am sure the report can be found archived on the EPA website) and they shut down their headquarters in City of Industry just east of Los Angeles.

Relevant somewhat because RPS is the new incarnation of Hensim's US subsidiary.

Sport Rider · 11-20-2018, 01:42 PM

If anyone is worried about longevity, warranty, customer service, etc, please do yourself and us a favor and go buy a jap bike. if you're NOT aware of these things, you have not done your research and were only sucked in by their price. You get what you pay for!

I knew exactly what I was getting into when i bought my hawk. I'm all for saying f*** the FEDs and their EPA crap. As for dealers, they are all fly-by-night. I used them only to get the bike to my doorstep. after that, to think that I would be contacting them for service, parts, support, etc is a farce. buyer beware, and don't trust the government or lawyers to save your butt when you get screwed.

Having said all that, I LOVE my hawk and would not trade it for a jap bike if I had to pay any more for it.

culcune · 11-20-2018, 02:19 PM

All is true and correct, Sport Rider. My only argument is this is at the distributor level. If RPS fails, it might prove difficult to get parts for you guys, although with a member like NZbrakelathes, or interchangeable parts with CSC, even that might not be as true. But, you guys already knew that...

imapdog · 11-20-2018, 04:30 PM

where there is a will, there is a way.
in other words.... if demand is there, they will find a way to get them to you.
the system is flawed on the State level. feds don't have the manpower to stop these imports and thus responsibilities onto the States. There are so many units out there to keep up with, and most states throw their hands down and sign away whatever comes there way....if the states were 100% enforcers we
would all be riding around on 49cc china bikes.... if rps crashes, someone will step up and be chased a few yrs until shut down, repeat...

Torgo · 11-20-2018, 10:37 PM

What I found interesting in that document was the unit cost of a Magician is $468.

As far as all the other stuff - realistic expectations will go a long way to help you find enjoyment in owning a Chinese motorcycle.

culcune · 11-20-2018, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imapdog

the system is flawed on the State level. feds don't have the manpower to stop these imports and thus responsibilities onto the States. There are so many units out there to keep up with, and most states throw their hands down and sign away whatever comes there way....if the states were 100% enforcers we
would all be riding around on 49cc china bikes...

The reality is that many states do plate converted dirt bikes, but it was interesting to see how many, and which ones, were plating Hawks. I think I counted 30 states on Jerryhawks' thread. I am guessing several states are those that normally don't plate offroad bikes. It seems some are no longer plating them. If there is some investigation tied to them getting so many plated, I wonder if RPS's competitors had anything to do with it? They went through the more difficult and I am guessing more costly process of getting theirs street legal. Knowing as much as I do now, if I was a competitor, I would probably bring this up to the powers that be. As a regular guy in California with only 2 choices of Chinese enduros available to me, I wish I could have the luxury of choice of low cost dual sports like I did when I lived in AZ...

timcosby · 11-20-2018, 11:51 PM

from what i read in the links they had to send a bunch of magicians back because of the cat converter not having enough of the right alloy...they just got caught but hell were all throwing the cat away anyway!

Sport Rider · 11-21-2018, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by culcune

The reality is that many states do plate converted dirt bikes, but it was interesting to see how many, and which ones, were plating Hawks. I think I counted 30 states on Jerryhawks' thread. I am guessing several states are those that normally don't plate offroad bikes. It seems some are no longer plating them. If there is some investigation tied to them getting so many plated, I wonder if RPS's competitors had anything to do with it? They went through the more difficult and I am guessing more costly process of getting theirs street legal. Knowing as much as I do now, if I was a competitor, I would probably bring this up to the powers that be. As a regular guy in California with only 2 choices of Chinese enduros available to me, I wish I could have the luxury of choice of low cost dual sports like I did when I lived in AZ...

what's even more interesting is that here in NC, I was denied at my local DMV. However, others have been able to get it done here. Seems to depend on whether you live in the big cities, or small town DMVs. I had to go the SD route on mine.

Sport Rider · 11-21-2018, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by culcune

All is true and correct, Sport Rider. My only argument is this is at the distributor level. If RPS fails, it might prove difficult to get parts for you guys, although with a member like NZbrakelathes, or interchangeable parts with CSC, even that might not be as true. But, you guys already knew that...

you can get a lot of stuff via chinese sellers. there's also a lot comparable with old honda CB motors, etc. You know all those things though.

I've ordered a number of various things for mine and have not used RPS or dealers. But you have to be imaginative and do some searching. definitely not as cut/dry as getting parts for popular brands. This site is invaluable for suggestions on where to go. I would not have been as happy with my hawk if I did not have the wealth of info from the folks here.

Alpha Reign · 11-21-2018, 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sport Rider

you can get a lot of stuff via chinese sellers. there's also a lot comparable with old honda CB motors, etc. You know all those things though.

I've ordered a number of various things for mine and have not used RPS or dealers. But you have to be imaginative and do some searching. definitely not as cut/dry as getting parts for popular brands. This site is invaluable for suggestions on where to go. I would not have been as happy with my hawk if I did not have the wealth of info from the folks here.

Exactly! The only reason I felt comfortable getting a Hawk was because of this forum. Everyone knows something, if you have a question someone knows the answer. This is the customer support RPS needs. If you need a part, chances are someone else did the same thing.

11-19-2018, 12:55 PM	#1
davisbm2 Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 54	EPA violation RPS using some shady practices.. Maybe we already knew this.. But I feel like RPS is using some pretty classic moves that I saw in China when I worked in manufacturing. They dump a lot of semi-legal stuff on the US market then abandon ship after they make a chunk of change.. $50 says RPS will be gone in 5 years. https://www.epa.gov/sites/production...rsportsllc.pdf Also as of 2018 their "headquarters" has a big ol' for lease sign out front, maybe not for them but their building sure looks empty.. https://www.google.com/maps/place/26...!4d-96.8858147 Is this old news? What are your thoughts? It is just business...
	0

11-20-2018, 12:36 AM	#3
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	Several years ago the EPA cracked down on the numerous 'off-road' bikes that had full street equipment. Yet, this time around Hensim is doing it again. They have sold boatloads of Hawks that many members have plated for the street, yet the bike is clearly certified as an 'off-road motorcycle'. Their saving grace is individual states will plate off-road bikes with a minimum of street equipment. My only fear for them is they have full street equipment already attached which might get them in trouble with the feds. As far as 5 years...there are very few manufactures/importers/distributors who have been in the game for 5 years, let alone another 5. CSC will probably pull it off, RPS might if they don't get into trouble, Bashan, TMEC has been selling their 200 enduro for over 9 years. __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	1

11-20-2018, 10:28 AM	#6
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	From what I understand, RPS are really Hensim. Hensim already closed down once in the late 2000s due to EPA (and if I remember CARB violations. It was a shame at the time because they recently had introduced one of the first '250' Chinese dual sports, once Hibird's '250' dual sport was no longer available (Hibird offered their identical 200 for a while after). Hibird were sold via a mail order place in Oklahoma called VBike (among others) for a low price. The same place later brought in the Hensim, forebearer to the Hawk, which seemed to be a one or two container deal. Hensim's website teased a dirt bike 250 among their very small selection of product they offered, but never showed the photo. My belief is that the place in OK got a large container direct from China. Next thing you knew was that the company was in trouble for something involving cheating emissions (I am sure the report can be found archived on the EPA website) and they shut down their headquarters in City of Industry just east of Los Angeles. Relevant somewhat because RPS is the new incarnation of Hensim's US subsidiary. __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	0

11-20-2018, 02:19 PM	#8
culcune Join Date: May 2006 Location: Yuma, Arizona Posts: 9,035	All is true and correct, Sport Rider. My only argument is this is at the distributor level. If RPS fails, it might prove difficult to get parts for you guys, although with a member like NZbrakelathes, or interchangeable parts with CSC, even that might not be as true. But, you guys already knew that... __________________ "They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard
	1

11-20-2018, 11:51 PM	#12
timcosby Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: robertsdale alabama usa Posts: 1,007	from what i read in the links they had to send a bunch of magicians back because of the cat converter not having enough of the right alloy...they just got caught but hell were all throwing the cat away anyway! __________________ 1991 harley heritage softail classic 2016 hawk kaw h1 400 tripple 13' long chopper in progress 2009 johnny pag bar hog 2004 hd electra glide ultra classic shriner edition 1997 harley davidson 1200 sportster 1972 harley davidson amf sx250
	1

11-19-2018, 04:43 PM	#2
DualSport Join Date: Sep 2018 Posts: 173	EPA violations? You don't even have to dig that deep... All their dealers back out of clear-cut warranty claims, and then when you try to deal with them directly it's basically what sounds like angry house wives and their grown man-kids who sound like they are about to tell a fart joke.. They are protected by legal loop holes like most Chinese dealers and importers though.. Ask anyone who has tried to file suit against one you'll end up suing a Chinese business and the CN government looks the other way with all the illegal reverse engineering and quality stuff that goes on in Shenzhen and other places.. It's even worse with electronics and electronic components.. You can probably buy a F-22 Raptor there that runs on Android or a rebranded Windows OS..
	1

11-20-2018, 03:50 AM	#4
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	Chinese ways are not ways that help humanity or regard law safety or human rights in anyway shape or form. MONEY and their Alphabet is 1st "i" and last "u"
	0

11-20-2018, 09:48 AM	#5
davisbm2 Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 54	When I first bought a China bike the saying was, it is a good bike if you know how to wrench. Now I'm starting to realize it's a MASSIVE gamble buying from these companies. I got a PM from a person who used to work for RPS. Let me just say AVOID BUYING ANYTHING FROM RPS!! There is all sorts of trickery, swapping VIN numbers, owners under federal investigation, shipping bikes that were dropped off the fork lift, shipping USED bikes. It is a mess. You might get lucky with one batch of bikes, or you may just be throwing $1500 out the window. I wish I had known a bit more, I would have gone for a CSC TT250. All that said, I still like my Magician. I just hope awesome forums like this provide some transparency for those considering an option like this. A lot of us buy China bikes because we don't have $6000 to blow but know we love to ride and wrench, so I hope we can help others spend what they do have on a trustworthy transaction.
	1

11-20-2018, 01:42 PM	#7
Sport Rider Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Mooresville NC Posts: 2,038	If anyone is worried about longevity, warranty, customer service, etc, please do yourself and us a favor and go buy a jap bike. if you're NOT aware of these things, you have not done your research and were only sucked in by their price. You get what you pay for! I knew exactly what I was getting into when i bought my hawk. I'm all for saying f*** the FEDs and their EPA crap. As for dealers, they are all fly-by-night. I used them only to get the bike to my doorstep. after that, to think that I would be contacting them for service, parts, support, etc is a farce. buyer beware, and don't trust the government or lawyers to save your butt when you get screwed. Having said all that, I LOVE my hawk and would not trade it for a jap bike if I had to pay any more for it.
	6

11-20-2018, 04:30 PM	#9
imapdog Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: nashville Posts: 574	where there is a will, there is a way. in other words.... if demand is there, they will find a way to get them to you. the system is flawed on the State level. feds don't have the manpower to stop these imports and thus responsibilities onto the States. There are so many units out there to keep up with, and most states throw their hands down and sign away whatever comes there way....if the states were 100% enforcers we would all be riding around on 49cc china bikes.... if rps crashes, someone will step up and be chased a few yrs until shut down, repeat...
	0

11-20-2018, 10:37 PM	#10
Torgo Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Texas Posts: 93	What I found interesting in that document was the unit cost of a Magician is $468. As far as all the other stuff - realistic expectations will go a long way to help you find enjoyment in owning a Chinese motorcycle.
	1