High idle - TPS?

ChopperCharles · 08-09-2021, 01:40 AM

Idle has been acting up the last few days. It'll stick right around 3000 rpm, and will not come down. If I let the clutch out slowly the bike will fight me as if I was giving throttle input. There is no vacuum leak and the throttle cables have plenty of play and are not binding. They're returning to the stop correctly.

I'm guessing the throttle position sensor is at fault. Or is there an IAC (Idle Air Control) valve to contend with?

Charles.

Lukas · 08-09-2021, 01:11 PM

you can connect the motorcycle to the HUD ECU HACKER record the log file then play it and in the graph window you will see what is really going on

pyoungbl · 08-09-2021, 02:32 PM

CSC lists a stepper motor...it's an air bleed to control the idle. You could try cleaning yours just in case it got clogged with blow-by oil.

ChopperCharles · 08-09-2021, 02:44 PM

Lukas, you say that like you assume I know what you're talking about.

Do you have any more information?

Charles.

Lukas · 08-09-2021, 04:41 PM

to connect you need only obd2 interface like elm 327

Plump Kibbles · 08-09-2021, 06:34 PM

Eh.. English? lol

Not going to bore you with what it does - have you checked the wiring with a multi-meter to see if there's any wonky readings? Should be like a potentiometer of sorts; usually feeds about 5V, steadily increasing as the throttle opens.

https://itstillruns.com/replace-head...t-5754018.html <-- testing and diagnostic route with a multi-meter. That is for a car, but universally accepted for pretty much any TPS. If you can find another TPS sensor, I'd just grab one of those; unless they're expensive.. But, I've dealt with these in vehicles. I'd say it's one of the 'disposable' parts to replace and go on with life lol

Another possibility - does this have a MAF sensor?? You might benefit from taking off the MAF and shooting it with some sensor cleaner. I do this every time I clean the K&N in my Corolla. About the time to clean is when I'm reading a low g/s rate from the MAF; like at 45MPH, usual g/s is maybe 5-7g/s? When it's getting dirty, I'll see the reading go down to around 3-5g/s. If it's dirty, that could be throwing off the LT/ST fuel trims and raising the idle to compensate for air rate. I have wanted to get an EFI bike to see what all I can tune in the ECU.

Lukas - is there any possible way to load these .bin's into RomRaider? I'm pretty apt with that program from having my GT86 and OFT tablet. Got rid of it when everyone in Vegas wanted to play bumper cars

Definitely not as much to play with not being a 4-banger, but could see if I could smooth out everything in the end. MAF scale would have to be on you though - you need to take data logs while riding to capture timing, efficiency, air rate, A/F, etc.

Charles - Do you happen to have any data logs say, around 6-7KRPM? Before the TPS started going nuts, that is.

Lukas · 08-09-2021, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plump Kibbles

Eh.. English? lol

Not going to bore you with what it does - have you checked the wiring with a multi-meter to see if there's any wonky readings? Should be like a potentiometer of sorts; usually feeds about 5V, steadily increasing as the throttle opens.

https://itstillruns.com/replace-head...t-5754018.html <-- testing and diagnostic route with a multi-meter. That is for a car, but universally accepted for pretty much any TPS. If you can find another TPS sensor, I'd just grab one of those; unless they're expensive.. But, I've dealt with these in vehicles. I'd say it's one of the 'disposable' parts to replace and go on with life lol

Another possibility - does this have a MAF sensor?? You might benefit from taking off the MAF and shooting it with some sensor cleaner. I do this every time I clean the K&N in my Corolla. About the time to clean is when I'm reading a low g/s rate from the MAF; like at 45MPH, usual g/s is maybe 5-7g/s? When it's getting dirty, I'll see the reading go down to around 3-5g/s. If it's dirty, that could be throwing off the LT/ST fuel trims and raising the idle to compensate for air rate. I have wanted to get an EFI bike to see what all I can tune in the ECU.

Lukas - is there any possible way to load these .bin's into RomRaider? I'm pretty apt with that program from having my GT86 and OFT tablet. Got rid of it when everyone in Vegas wanted to play bumper cars

Definitely not as much to play with not being a 4-banger, but could see if I could smooth out everything in the end. MAF scale would have to be on you though - you need to take data logs while riding to capture timing, efficiency, air rate, A/F, etc.

Charles - Do you happen to have any data logs say, around 6-7KRPM? Before the TPS started going nuts, that is.

yeah of course you can try with open port 2.0 i can't run romraider program so i can't say sure yes .

Plump Kibbles · 08-09-2021, 09:49 PM

Oh yeah my dude - definitely know about the Tactrix unit - though I would get the real deal for full compatibility for flashing. ECUFlash is another you can use - not sure about support though.. I went with the OFT flash tablet for my tuning - easy, fast. But - I don't have any EFI bikes so I would be kinda shooting from the hip - no .bin's either. I'll see about support for these on RomRaider's site. I used that to edit the MAF scale, but you can do much, much more with it. Graphical map views as well.

The TPS itself is probably the issue though - I would suspect that over the ECU tune first. Or the MAF tossing some weird readings; I hate sensors lol In any case - you can reset the ECU though. Just pull the negative off the battery, put the key in and ignition on, leave it for a few hours or so; when I reset after a flash I would leave it disconnected for about 8 hours.. Hook it back up and it'll start fresh with all the trims at 0. Just before you start it, keep the ignition on for about 30sec for everything to calibrate and zero, fuel pump pumping and all. Then start, idle for 5min, turn off, start it back up and take it for 100mi light riding - doesn't have to be constant. But, that will reset every value in your ECU and get you back to how it was at 0mi on the ODO. I have had to do this many times in the past. One question: have you taken the bike somewhere outside of your normal elevation? My GS650 acted really strange after getting back from Yellowstone park in Vegas - had to do the reset on that bike to get it normal again. Just thought about that; if you do go somewhere with an extreme elevation change, the ECU should adjust the trims for the oxygen levels. But, sometimes not so well. Not sure if this is the case, again. But thought I'd throw that out lol

ChopperCharles · 08-09-2021, 10:59 PM

I have *NO CLUE* how to hook my rx3 up to any diagnostic software. Please pretend I’m an idiot and explain how to do any of this please.

Charles.

Lukas · 08-10-2021, 09:26 AM

do you have any interfejs like obd elm 327 or open port ?

Lukas · 08-10-2021, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plump Kibbles

Oh yeah my dude - definitely know about the Tactrix unit - though I would get the real deal for full compatibility for flashing. ECUFlash is another you can use - not sure about support though.. I went with the OFT flash tablet for my tuning - easy, fast. But - I don't have any EFI bikes so I would be kinda shooting from the hip - no .bin's either. I'll see about support for these on RomRaider's site. I used that to edit the MAF scale, but you can do much, much more with it. Graphical map views as well.

The TPS itself is probably the issue though - I would suspect that over the ECU tune first. Or the MAF tossing some weird readings; I hate sensors lol In any case - you can reset the ECU though. Just pull the negative off the battery, put the key in and ignition on, leave it for a few hours or so; when I reset after a flash I would leave it disconnected for about 8 hours.. Hook it back up and it'll start fresh with all the trims at 0. Just before you start it, keep the ignition on for about 30sec for everything to calibrate and zero, fuel pump pumping and all. Then start, idle for 5min, turn off, start it back up and take it for 100mi light riding - doesn't have to be constant. But, that will reset every value in your ECU and get you back to how it was at 0mi on the ODO. I have had to do this many times in the past. One question: have you taken the bike somewhere outside of your normal elevation? My GS650 acted really strange after getting back from Yellowstone park in Vegas - had to do the reset on that bike to get it normal again. Just thought about that; if you do go somewhere with an extreme elevation change, the ECU should adjust the trims for the oxygen levels. But, sometimes not so well. Not sure if this is the case, again. But thought I'd throw that out lol

to tell you anything about romraider I need to run it on my computer and it will take some time i live in little mountains so my motorcycle ride up on hills many times

ChopperCharles · 08-10-2021, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas

do you have any interfejs like obd elm 327 or open port ?

I see words that look like English, but they don't make sense. So I'll say "no".

I need links. Buy this. Install this. Hook it up like this. The very, very basics.

Charles.

Lukas · 08-10-2021, 11:19 AM

I'm sorry, but Polish has a different grammar than English, hence the nonsense that comes out of the translator I'll make a picture tutorial for you on what and how, if you want, I'll record a video.

Plump Kibbles · 08-10-2021, 05:35 PM

No worries man - do you know where the diagnostic port is? Should be listed in the book - maybe a 3 or 4-pin plug.

https://www.amazon.com/SuperOBD-Adap...motive&sr=1-18 <-- that one is for a 4-pin plug...

https://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Ad...pcontext&psc=1 <-- this one is the 3-pin plug.

https://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluet...625076&sr=8-10 <-- that's just a generic OBDII scan interface - the ELM327 is just a chip that handles the information being relayed from the ECU to a readable printout. One of those cables would go to the bikes 3-4pin harness, then the blue scanner into the big D-type connectors 16pin port - then bluetooth to the phone. Could leave it hooked up hidden under the seat or something for easier access to scanning. Or use another phone or other device for a dashboard layout!

I use an app called Car Scanner ELM OBD2 - little blue icon with a white engine on it, Android - I did pay the .99 cents to have the full app, but there is a free option. Torque is another free app you can get, also has a 'premium' option. Though I have not used one of these on any bike yet - should be able to get a reading. I would select the generic OBD scan and see what it can find. These won't mess anything up; the ELM327 doesn't have capability to write over any ROM chips either; just read / monitor. The Tactrix unit is a device that goes from OBDII to USB / serial and then connects to COMM protocols and IS able to read, also able to write information as well. These are the most common option for 'cheap' tuning solutions. That with a laptop paired with ECUFlash or the other ECU hack program Lukas specified - you can do some good stuff, but you also take a very high risk of bricking your ECU and damaging it permanently. Not sure how much those little EFI EEPROMs are, but one for a car is around two grand!.. I took a pretty high risk flashing my brand new GT86 to stage 2 lol but I wanted to run E85+ for more power!

Even if you don't use the device that often, it's always a very useful tool to have on hand. Can even use it on any of your vehicles too.

Lukas - you may need to jump in on the links to specify which adapter; either 3 or 4-pin to the 16-pin OBDII port lol I've seen bike plugs before, but they're allllllllll different!

Charles - Not gonna put anyone down, I'm all about helping. Sorry for anything that went a little overhead, not my intention - I kind of assumed you had some knowledge beforehand lol my fault.

So, once we get squared away with the interfacing lol you'll be able to connect real time to your bike and take a data log of what's goin' on. The apps do have some good tutorials on it, but always here to help. The biggest thing would just be taking a code scan - if there are any DTS's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes), they'll be displayed - some scanners even give hints to what needs to be replaced / fixed. I've got one of the little blue OBD scanners myself - have had no issue with it at all for about 5 years. Actually used to leave it plugged up to run a monitor off a tablet to see all my engine stats - little to no battery drain. Now I just have my VP16 - that can take dyno's, activate PWM (pulse width modulation) controls like No2 tank valves, HHO or oxyhydrogen dipoles, all kinds of shtuff lol I just have it monitoring my main stats like HP and A/F ratio's. It does claim it's able to change ECU values like a piggy-back for eco or power boosts.. I'm sold on it, my Corolla is hitting almost 43MPG after using it!

But - if the TPS is acting up, the ECU should have recorded the event and stored in memory. Are there any check engine lights or anything that would indicate 'hey something's wrong'? I'm not sure what to look for myself either - I know on cars it's the little orange engine light. But, this is a bit different. You may not even need to look at the TPS with a multi-meter with this either, you can see throttle position from the OBD reader to check it in the app. I'm always a geek with this kind of stuff - engineering was my major lol the need to mod is real.

Plump Kibbles · 08-10-2021, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukas

to tell you anything about romraider I need to run it on my computer and it will take some time i live in little mountains so my motorcycle ride up on hills many times

No worries - I have an account on the RomRaider forums lol I asked if anyone had any clue about definitions for the RX3 to see the map tables. No replies yet..

08-09-2021, 01:40 AM	#1
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 683	High idle - TPS? Idle has been acting up the last few days. It'll stick right around 3000 rpm, and will not come down. If I let the clutch out slowly the bike will fight me as if I was giving throttle input. There is no vacuum leak and the throttle cables have plenty of play and are not binding. They're returning to the stop correctly. I'm guessing the throttle position sensor is at fault. Or is there an IAC (Idle Air Control) valve to contend with? Charles.
	0

08-09-2021, 06:34 PM	#6
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	Eh.. English? lol Not going to bore you with what it does - have you checked the wiring with a multi-meter to see if there's any wonky readings? Should be like a potentiometer of sorts; usually feeds about 5V, steadily increasing as the throttle opens. https://itstillruns.com/replace-head...t-5754018.html <-- testing and diagnostic route with a multi-meter. That is for a car, but universally accepted for pretty much any TPS. If you can find another TPS sensor, I'd just grab one of those; unless they're expensive.. But, I've dealt with these in vehicles. I'd say it's one of the 'disposable' parts to replace and go on with life lol Another possibility - does this have a MAF sensor?? You might benefit from taking off the MAF and shooting it with some sensor cleaner. I do this every time I clean the K&N in my Corolla. About the time to clean is when I'm reading a low g/s rate from the MAF; like at 45MPH, usual g/s is maybe 5-7g/s? When it's getting dirty, I'll see the reading go down to around 3-5g/s. If it's dirty, that could be throwing off the LT/ST fuel trims and raising the idle to compensate for air rate. I have wanted to get an EFI bike to see what all I can tune in the ECU. Lukas - is there any possible way to load these .bin's into RomRaider? I'm pretty apt with that program from having my GT86 and OFT tablet. Got rid of it when everyone in Vegas wanted to play bumper cars Definitely not as much to play with not being a 4-banger, but could see if I could smooth out everything in the end. MAF scale would have to be on you though - you need to take data logs while riding to capture timing, efficiency, air rate, A/F, etc. Charles - Do you happen to have any data logs say, around 6-7KRPM? Before the TPS started going nuts, that is. __________________ \|2020 X-Pro Titan DLX\| <-- FOR SALE!!
	0

08-09-2021, 09:49 PM	#8
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	Oh yeah my dude - definitely know about the Tactrix unit - though I would get the real deal for full compatibility for flashing. ECUFlash is another you can use - not sure about support though.. I went with the OFT flash tablet for my tuning - easy, fast. But - I don't have any EFI bikes so I would be kinda shooting from the hip - no .bin's either. I'll see about support for these on RomRaider's site. I used that to edit the MAF scale, but you can do much, much more with it. Graphical map views as well. The TPS itself is probably the issue though - I would suspect that over the ECU tune first. Or the MAF tossing some weird readings; I hate sensors lol In any case - you can reset the ECU though. Just pull the negative off the battery, put the key in and ignition on, leave it for a few hours or so; when I reset after a flash I would leave it disconnected for about 8 hours.. Hook it back up and it'll start fresh with all the trims at 0. Just before you start it, keep the ignition on for about 30sec for everything to calibrate and zero, fuel pump pumping and all. Then start, idle for 5min, turn off, start it back up and take it for 100mi light riding - doesn't have to be constant. But, that will reset every value in your ECU and get you back to how it was at 0mi on the ODO. I have had to do this many times in the past. One question: have you taken the bike somewhere outside of your normal elevation? My GS650 acted really strange after getting back from Yellowstone park in Vegas - had to do the reset on that bike to get it normal again. Just thought about that; if you do go somewhere with an extreme elevation change, the ECU should adjust the trims for the oxygen levels. But, sometimes not so well. Not sure if this is the case, again. But thought I'd throw that out lol __________________ \|2020 X-Pro Titan DLX\| <-- FOR SALE!!
	0

08-10-2021, 05:35 PM	#14
Plump Kibbles Join Date: Sep 2020 Location: Virginia Posts: 233	No worries man - do you know where the diagnostic port is? Should be listed in the book - maybe a 3 or 4-pin plug. https://www.amazon.com/SuperOBD-Adap...motive&sr=1-18 <-- that one is for a 4-pin plug... https://www.amazon.com/Diagnostic-Ad...pcontext&psc=1 <-- this one is the 3-pin plug. https://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluet...625076&sr=8-10 <-- that's just a generic OBDII scan interface - the ELM327 is just a chip that handles the information being relayed from the ECU to a readable printout. One of those cables would go to the bikes 3-4pin harness, then the blue scanner into the big D-type connectors 16pin port - then bluetooth to the phone. Could leave it hooked up hidden under the seat or something for easier access to scanning. Or use another phone or other device for a dashboard layout! I use an app called Car Scanner ELM OBD2 - little blue icon with a white engine on it, Android - I did pay the .99 cents to have the full app, but there is a free option. Torque is another free app you can get, also has a 'premium' option. Though I have not used one of these on any bike yet - should be able to get a reading. I would select the generic OBD scan and see what it can find. These won't mess anything up; the ELM327 doesn't have capability to write over any ROM chips either; just read / monitor. The Tactrix unit is a device that goes from OBDII to USB / serial and then connects to COMM protocols and IS able to read, also able to write information as well. These are the most common option for 'cheap' tuning solutions. That with a laptop paired with ECUFlash or the other ECU hack program Lukas specified - you can do some good stuff, but you also take a very high risk of bricking your ECU and damaging it permanently. Not sure how much those little EFI EEPROMs are, but one for a car is around two grand!.. I took a pretty high risk flashing my brand new GT86 to stage 2 lol but I wanted to run E85+ for more power! Even if you don't use the device that often, it's always a very useful tool to have on hand. Can even use it on any of your vehicles too. Lukas - you may need to jump in on the links to specify which adapter; either 3 or 4-pin to the 16-pin OBDII port lol I've seen bike plugs before, but they're allllllllll different! Charles - Not gonna put anyone down, I'm all about helping. Sorry for anything that went a little overhead, not my intention - I kind of assumed you had some knowledge beforehand lol my fault. So, once we get squared away with the interfacing lol you'll be able to connect real time to your bike and take a data log of what's goin' on. The apps do have some good tutorials on it, but always here to help. The biggest thing would just be taking a code scan - if there are any DTS's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes), they'll be displayed - some scanners even give hints to what needs to be replaced / fixed. I've got one of the little blue OBD scanners myself - have had no issue with it at all for about 5 years. Actually used to leave it plugged up to run a monitor off a tablet to see all my engine stats - little to no battery drain. Now I just have my VP16 - that can take dyno's, activate PWM (pulse width modulation) controls like No2 tank valves, HHO or oxyhydrogen dipoles, all kinds of shtuff lol I just have it monitoring my main stats like HP and A/F ratio's. It does claim it's able to change ECU values like a piggy-back for eco or power boosts.. I'm sold on it, my Corolla is hitting almost 43MPG after using it! But - if the TPS is acting up, the ECU should have recorded the event and stored in memory. Are there any check engine lights or anything that would indicate 'hey something's wrong'? I'm not sure what to look for myself either - I know on cars it's the little orange engine light. But, this is a bit different. You may not even need to look at the TPS with a multi-meter with this either, you can see throttle position from the OBD reader to check it in the app. I'm always a geek with this kind of stuff - engineering was my major lol the need to mod is real. __________________ \|2020 X-Pro Titan DLX\| <-- FOR SALE!!
	0

08-09-2021, 01:11 PM	#2
Lukas Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: A small Polish empire Posts: 244	you can connect the motorcycle to the HUD ECU HACKER record the log file then play it and in the graph window you will see what is really going on
	0

08-09-2021, 02:32 PM	#3
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	CSC lists a stepper motor...it's an air bleed to control the idle. You could try cleaning yours just in case it got clogged with blow-by oil.
	0

08-09-2021, 02:44 PM	#4
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 683	Lukas, you say that like you assume I know what you're talking about. Do you have any more information? Charles.
	1

08-09-2021, 04:41 PM	#5
Lukas Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: A small Polish empire Posts: 244	to connect you need only obd2 interface like elm 327
	0

08-09-2021, 10:59 PM	#9
ChopperCharles Join Date: Feb 2018 Location: RDU, NC Posts: 683	I have NO CLUE how to hook my rx3 up to any diagnostic software. Please pretend I’m an idiot and explain how to do any of this please. Charles.
	0

08-10-2021, 09:26 AM	#10
Lukas Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: A small Polish empire Posts: 244	do you have any interfejs like obd elm 327 or open port ?
	0

08-10-2021, 11:19 AM	#13
Lukas Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: A small Polish empire Posts: 244	I'm sorry, but Polish has a different grammar than English, hence the nonsense that comes out of the translator I'll make a picture tutorial for you on what and how, if you want, I'll record a video.
	0