New rps magician 250 - getting to 80mph

slithica · 01-13-2021, 11:49 PM

Original post beneath this.

In the end I got to about 70 without porting the heads or doing what I consider major engine work and the vibrations/wobble started to scare me.

I ended my journey to 80mph, I'm afraid to go over about 65 on this thing.

Basically, it wobbles too much at high speeds and vibrates terribly. Don't try to go faster than about 65.

Original post.

I got a new one, from killer motor sports.

My goal is to get this bike to 80mph.

this will be my post regarding that and my eventual success or failure.

This may take a while, and I won't have much to update after this for around a week or two, but check back later to see how it goes.

The plan so far.

Larger front sprocket - 17 tooth

Smaller rear sprocket - 40 tooth

Aftermarket carb

High flow air filter

135 main jet - maybe need bigger?

45 idle jet - will adjust as needed

tracker installed with backup battery.

cat de-restriction

Based on my math, the top speed of the stock bike is about 62mph at redline.

With the new gear ratio it should be closer to 85mph theoretical max speed, so with the gear ratio making it possible to go faster, I just need the power.

Maximize air in and air out, i put on a high flow air filter and I'll make it so air can get out of the exhaust, probably by removing the catalytic converter element or replacing it with a better one.

Heat: With all that power you'll have more heat, air cooling won't cut it, time for liquid cooling! Installing a largish (125ml) oil cooler, with fan for idle.

So far, that's the plan and I'm 80% through the modifications right now.

Once that's done I'll take it for a drive and see how fast it goes, I'll update it when that comes around.

What if it's still not sonic though? (gotta go fast)

I have more plans if it's not fast enough!

NO2 : that's right! I'll put an NO2 can on the bike and flip that switch for a little boost, I didn't say it had to maintain 80 forever, but with a low flow one it should be enough to last a while and give it 1 extra horse or so for a bit.

Tires: lighter, less knobby tires. Right now it has all terrain tires, swap those for slightly lighter and smoother street tires to lessen friction and go faster

Lose weight: I'm not fat by any means but I could lose like 10-15 lbs and still be healthy!

lol, no but I could lighten the motorcycle a bit if I need to.

Aluminum rims, remove the cargo rack on the back, yeah... not much to lessen weight. It's a light bike. Maybe like 5-10lbs that I could take off.

Porting the heads:

I don't want to do that, it's a fair bit of work, but if I have to.... I'll do it

That's all I've got for now, I'm certainly open to ideas though.

I welcome you all to my journey to reach 80mph.

I did change both sprockets as I wanted, the intake, the carb, the tires, oil cooler, and a bunch of other small changes and additions.

BuffaloChinaRider · 01-14-2021, 01:00 AM

Very exciting post. I'll keep up on reading updates. A few years back a guy on here got his bashan WILL 200 or motomax now called To do above 80mph which was impressive. I've seen some of these bikes on here seriously modded out performance wise and people get them going pretty fast but steady 80mph or above would be cool to see again. I think past a certain amount..you can only squeeze so much out of these bikes. BUT good luck and can't wait to see your progress!

Megadan · 01-14-2021, 05:55 AM

Without me going into a very long winded post....

I won't say it is impossible, but you are definitely starting with a handicap.

First, the Magician rear sprocket type is rather unique and hard to get, so you will be looking at something custom. Due to the way it mounts, the 40 rear tooth count might be nearly impossible to pull off. Before you go any further that is something I would want to verify.

If I can get my Hawk to hold a steady 70mph and reach 75 maxed out, which is arguably worse in aerodynamics with larger wheel diameters, heavier, and has me on board (I am the human equivalent of a sail) then I don't doubt a Magician can be made to reach 80. Hold it for long periods of time though? that is a different question.

You will likely need to look into a ported head at the minimum, and maybe talk to Joe Henner about one of his camshafts that increases the top end performance of the engine. One of the biggest issues with the CG engine is that it isn't a very good engine for top end performance like top speed stuff. It's strength is in its tractor factor low and mid range power.

The oil cooler idea is a good one, but you can likely skip the fan unless you plan on spending a lot of time barely moving. I have yet to need anything of the sort on my bike, and my 125ml cooler is half blocked by the front fender at all times.

alex_in_az · 01-14-2021, 09:16 AM

80mph is absolutely possible, I self limit myself to 75 because of front end instability but I have no doubt it would do 80 if I was brave enough. A few years ago I built a cafe style bike from a panterra 200 and that did 84 with only minimal mods to the engine

Wild Dog · 01-14-2021, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alex_in_az

80mph is absolutely possible, I self limit myself to 75 because of front end instability but I have no doubt it would do 80 if I was brave enough. A few years ago I built a cafe style bike from a panterra 200 and that did 84 with only minimal mods to the engine

Well that's something that people seem to overlook... Sure you can go as fast as you can engine can be modded, but can you brake?

RedCrowRides · 01-14-2021, 11:08 AM

As evidenced by the ubiquitous F4 Phantom, you can indeed make a brick fly if you have enough HP. That said, not knocking your project but you would have a much easier time if you had just started with a Venom X22R 250 for about the same money rather than a Magician ,I'm pretty sure JerryHawk250's X22 routinely runs 80 mph ,largely in part due to the obvious aerodynamic advantages the X22 offers.

Megadan · 01-14-2021, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedCrowRides

As evidenced by the ubiquitous F4 Phantom, you can indeed make a brick fly if you have enough HP. That said, not knocking your project but you would have a much easier time if you had just started with a Venom X22R 250 for about the same money rather than a Magician ,I'm pretty sure JerryHawk250's X22 routinely runs 80 mph ,largely in part due to the obvious aerodynamic advantages the X22 offers.

The OHC motor with a cam and high compression forged piston kind of helps too.

Deckard_Cain · 01-15-2021, 09:29 AM

Hmm. An interesting project to be sure!

You will definitely want to have the head ported and polished, and like Dan said, I'd check with Joe Henner (reach out to him on facebook) for one of his cams if he has any left.

I'd just send your whole head (or buy one from Jeff at Peace Sports for a Brozz250 and have it shipped to Joe- which is what I did) and have him port that.

Instead of de-catting the stock exhaust, save yourself time and headache and spend the $100 on the full stainless system. Takes care of the cat convertor issue and is better overall.

Oil cooler is a good add-on, wouldn't try to water cool it. If you plan to sustain 80+ for long periods of time, I'd pick a different engine/bike platform.

None of the CG based bikes are really meant for top speed or fast performance, the engine shines in the low to mid ranges with gobs of torque. So you're kind of asking it to do something against it's engineering. But it certainly can be done!

Good luck!

slithica · 01-24-2021, 03:26 AM

I did order a 40 tooth rear sprocket, I'm installing it tomorrow. I plan on taking it for a short ride around to see how it feels. Cost about $65 and i just got it yesterday.

I used the original air box as case for an additional battery and a tracker with the second battery as a backup. As much trouble as I had removing that air box it's a great place to hide a tracker.

I pulled the original battery holder out and made a tin one with thin metal. It works well and is easier to remove.

I have installed the new carb and jets, I also installed the oil cooler.

I don't think I'll put a fan on it, mostly because the location makes it almost impossible.

I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them.

I'm still waiting on my title, so I can't drive it on the roads yet, I did manage to get it insured for $100 per year though.

Deckard_Cain · 01-24-2021, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slithica

I did order a 40 tooth rear sprocket, I'm installing it tomorrow. I plan on taking it for a short ride around to see how it feels. Cost about $65 and i just got it yesterday.

I used the original air box as case for an additional battery and a tracker with the second battery as a backup. As much trouble as I had removing that air box it's a great place to hide a tracker.

I pulled the original battery holder out and made a tin one with thin metal. It works well and is easier to remove.

I have installed the new carb and jets, I also installed the oil cooler.

I don't think I'll put a fan on it, mostly because the location makes it almost impossible.

I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them.

I'm still waiting on my title, so I can't drive it on the roads yet, I did manage to get it insured for $100 per year though.

I must have missed it in a previous post, but why the second battery again?

slithica · 01-24-2021, 06:30 PM

https://imgur.com/a/RzmaXYh

Here's some pics of the old sprocket and new sprocket. I just used washers for a spacer. I ordered an 8mm inner diameter pipe to cut for it as a spacer but it isn't here yet and I couldn't wait.

Also a picture of the oil cooler and it's shield, it was literally the cheapest shield on amazon so I just got it and bent it over the oil cooler and zip tied it. I also zip tied the cooler lines to the frame and put some heat shield tape over the part close to the exhaust.

I put a kickstand adapter on it to make it have a larger foot. I did have to grind down the original foot slightly but it fits well now.

I have a second battery because why not? it's extra capacity.

Mostly it was so that if someone stole it I would be more likely to recover it since the tracker has it's own battery source separate from the original battery and it's much harder to disconnect the second battery.

I just realized I probably submitted the mco request with the wrong order number and just redid it today XD damn. So it will be a week or two before I get the title... Welp, expect an update when I get it.

I drove it around my yard a bit and it starts easily and seems to run well.

I did find it was impossible to get into neutral while the motorcycle is running... is that normal? it just skips over it.

Also, the headlight turns off when I turn the bars all the way to one side and the blinkers simply don't work at all.

I'll have to do some electrical fixing it seems.

BuffaloChinaRider · 01-24-2021, 10:23 PM

Wires could be getting kinked or shorted out from the turning of the bars. Definitely go through the wiring for bare wires or broken wire housings. Also yes hard to find neutrals happen with these bikes sometimes when new. After breakin it usually subsides

slithica · 01-27-2021, 02:21 AM

Small update.

https://www.imgur.com/a/znlrnzs

I installed a rear storage box and 12v socket. I put the socket inside the bottom of the rear box.

Don't worry, when the box is closed it has a small notch specifically to have a wire run from it. So I can plug my phone into power while driving, or use the tiny air pump I put in there to pump up a low tire.

I also fixed the headlight issue, the headlight connector was loose. Blinkers seem to need a new relay. I ordered a new one that's adjustable so I can set the blink speed.

slithica · 02-12-2021, 10:44 AM

New update!

I got it titled and tagged in SC.

Cost me about $140 for everything, that includes an extra 20 to have the title printed.

They told me they didn't have magician in their system but they had the hawk so that's just what they listed it as.

So my title and registration says 2020 hawk hs250y on it. I guess it doesn't matter.

It's raining so I'm going to take it for a drive as soon as it is dry outside, (it's also cold).

drstansbury@yahoo. · 02-14-2021, 09:05 AM

I think you might be able to hit 80mph with the proper mods and gearing. Now will it sustain it for any length of time is another. Im not sure the magician has the handling capabilities to comfortably ride at that speed as I've never rode one but unless your local terrain is all flat you're probably going to have to get into some deeper engine mods. Now I am interested in how the engine handler nos shot so I will definitely be following your thread. Best wishes

01-13-2021, 11:49 PM	#1
slithica Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 38	New rps magician 250 - getting to 80mph Original post beneath this. In the end I got to about 70 without porting the heads or doing what I consider major engine work and the vibrations/wobble started to scare me. I ended my journey to 80mph, I'm afraid to go over about 65 on this thing. Basically, it wobbles too much at high speeds and vibrates terribly. Don't try to go faster than about 65. Original post. I got a new one, from killer motor sports. My goal is to get this bike to 80mph. this will be my post regarding that and my eventual success or failure. This may take a while, and I won't have much to update after this for around a week or two, but check back later to see how it goes. The plan so far. Larger front sprocket - 17 tooth Smaller rear sprocket - 40 tooth Aftermarket carb High flow air filter 135 main jet - maybe need bigger? 45 idle jet - will adjust as needed tracker installed with backup battery. cat de-restriction Based on my math, the top speed of the stock bike is about 62mph at redline. With the new gear ratio it should be closer to 85mph theoretical max speed, so with the gear ratio making it possible to go faster, I just need the power. Maximize air in and air out, i put on a high flow air filter and I'll make it so air can get out of the exhaust, probably by removing the catalytic converter element or replacing it with a better one. Heat: With all that power you'll have more heat, air cooling won't cut it, time for liquid cooling! Installing a largish (125ml) oil cooler, with fan for idle. So far, that's the plan and I'm 80% through the modifications right now. Once that's done I'll take it for a drive and see how fast it goes, I'll update it when that comes around. What if it's still not sonic though? (gotta go fast) I have more plans if it's not fast enough! NO2 : that's right! I'll put an NO2 can on the bike and flip that switch for a little boost, I didn't say it had to maintain 80 forever, but with a low flow one it should be enough to last a while and give it 1 extra horse or so for a bit. Tires: lighter, less knobby tires. Right now it has all terrain tires, swap those for slightly lighter and smoother street tires to lessen friction and go faster Lose weight: I'm not fat by any means but I could lose like 10-15 lbs and still be healthy! lol, no but I could lighten the motorcycle a bit if I need to. Aluminum rims, remove the cargo rack on the back, yeah... not much to lessen weight. It's a light bike. Maybe like 5-10lbs that I could take off. Porting the heads: I don't want to do that, it's a fair bit of work, but if I have to.... I'll do it That's all I've got for now, I'm certainly open to ideas though. I welcome you all to my journey to reach 80mph. I did change both sprockets as I wanted, the intake, the carb, the tires, oil cooler, and a bunch of other small changes and additions. Last edited by slithica; 12-26-2021 at 09:29 PM.
	1

01-14-2021, 01:00 AM	#2
BuffaloChinaRider Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 224	Very exciting post. I'll keep up on reading updates. A few years back a guy on here got his bashan WILL 200 or motomax now called To do above 80mph which was impressive. I've seen some of these bikes on here seriously modded out performance wise and people get them going pretty fast but steady 80mph or above would be cool to see again. I think past a certain amount..you can only squeeze so much out of these bikes. BUT good luck and can't wait to see your progress! __________________ BuffaloChinaRider on Youtube Bashan Storm 250 (2018) Apollo Db-36 Deluxe (2019)
	0

01-14-2021, 05:55 AM	#3
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 8,008	Without me going into a very long winded post.... I won't say it is impossible, but you are definitely starting with a handicap. First, the Magician rear sprocket type is rather unique and hard to get, so you will be looking at something custom. Due to the way it mounts, the 40 rear tooth count might be nearly impossible to pull off. Before you go any further that is something I would want to verify. If I can get my Hawk to hold a steady 70mph and reach 75 maxed out, which is arguably worse in aerodynamics with larger wheel diameters, heavier, and has me on board (I am the human equivalent of a sail) then I don't doubt a Magician can be made to reach 80. Hold it for long periods of time though? that is a different question. You will likely need to look into a ported head at the minimum, and maybe talk to Joe Henner about one of his camshafts that increases the top end performance of the engine. One of the biggest issues with the CG engine is that it isn't a very good engine for top end performance like top speed stuff. It's strength is in its tractor factor low and mid range power. The oil cooler idea is a good one, but you can likely skip the fan unless you plan on spending a lot of time barely moving. I have yet to need anything of the sort on my bike, and my 125ml cooler is half blocked by the front fender at all times. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	3

01-14-2021, 09:16 AM	#4
alex_in_az Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Goodyear, Arizona Posts: 407	80mph is absolutely possible, I self limit myself to 75 because of front end instability but I have no doubt it would do 80 if I was brave enough. A few years ago I built a cafe style bike from a panterra 200 and that did 84 with only minimal mods to the engine __________________ 2020 Tao TBR7 9.3:1 PnP head CRF230F exhaust 4 degree advance key 290 degree cam Nibbi PE30 and cone filter Front fork brace
	1

01-14-2021, 11:08 AM	#6
RedCrowRides Join Date: Jun 2018 Location: Florida Posts: 759	As evidenced by the ubiquitous F4 Phantom, you can indeed make a brick fly if you have enough HP. That said, not knocking your project but you would have a much easier time if you had just started with a Venom X22R 250 for about the same money rather than a Magician ,I'm pretty sure JerryHawk250's X22 routinely runs 80 mph ,largely in part due to the obvious aerodynamic advantages the X22 offers. __________________ 2001 Mustang GT 2004 Sportster 2018 VADER 2020 Orion RXB250L
	3

01-15-2021, 09:29 AM	#8
Deckard_Cain Join Date: Aug 2019 Location: Bay City, MI Posts: 397	Hmm. An interesting project to be sure! You will definitely want to have the head ported and polished, and like Dan said, I'd check with Joe Henner (reach out to him on facebook) for one of his cams if he has any left. I'd just send your whole head (or buy one from Jeff at Peace Sports for a Brozz250 and have it shipped to Joe- which is what I did) and have him port that. Instead of de-catting the stock exhaust, save yourself time and headache and spend the $100 on the full stainless system. Takes care of the cat convertor issue and is better overall. Oil cooler is a good add-on, wouldn't try to water cool it. If you plan to sustain 80+ for long periods of time, I'd pick a different engine/bike platform. None of the CG based bikes are really meant for top speed or fast performance, the engine shines in the low to mid ranges with gobs of torque. So you're kind of asking it to do something against it's engineering. But it certainly can be done! Good luck!
	1

01-24-2021, 03:26 AM	#9
slithica Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 38	I did order a 40 tooth rear sprocket, I'm installing it tomorrow. I plan on taking it for a short ride around to see how it feels. Cost about $65 and i just got it yesterday. I used the original air box as case for an additional battery and a tracker with the second battery as a backup. As much trouble as I had removing that air box it's a great place to hide a tracker. I pulled the original battery holder out and made a tin one with thin metal. It works well and is easier to remove. I have installed the new carb and jets, I also installed the oil cooler. I don't think I'll put a fan on it, mostly because the location makes it almost impossible. I'll take some pics tomorrow and post them. I'm still waiting on my title, so I can't drive it on the roads yet, I did manage to get it insured for $100 per year though.
	0

01-24-2021, 06:30 PM	#11
slithica Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 38	https://imgur.com/a/RzmaXYh Here's some pics of the old sprocket and new sprocket. I just used washers for a spacer. I ordered an 8mm inner diameter pipe to cut for it as a spacer but it isn't here yet and I couldn't wait. Also a picture of the oil cooler and it's shield, it was literally the cheapest shield on amazon so I just got it and bent it over the oil cooler and zip tied it. I also zip tied the cooler lines to the frame and put some heat shield tape over the part close to the exhaust. I put a kickstand adapter on it to make it have a larger foot. I did have to grind down the original foot slightly but it fits well now. I have a second battery because why not? it's extra capacity. Mostly it was so that if someone stole it I would be more likely to recover it since the tracker has it's own battery source separate from the original battery and it's much harder to disconnect the second battery. I just realized I probably submitted the mco request with the wrong order number and just redid it today XD damn. So it will be a week or two before I get the title... Welp, expect an update when I get it. I drove it around my yard a bit and it starts easily and seems to run well. I did find it was impossible to get into neutral while the motorcycle is running... is that normal? it just skips over it. Also, the headlight turns off when I turn the bars all the way to one side and the blinkers simply don't work at all. I'll have to do some electrical fixing it seems.
	0

01-24-2021, 10:23 PM	#12
BuffaloChinaRider Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: Buffalo NY Posts: 224	Wires could be getting kinked or shorted out from the turning of the bars. Definitely go through the wiring for bare wires or broken wire housings. Also yes hard to find neutrals happen with these bikes sometimes when new. After breakin it usually subsides __________________ BuffaloChinaRider on Youtube Bashan Storm 250 (2018) Apollo Db-36 Deluxe (2019)
	0

01-27-2021, 02:21 AM	#13
slithica Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 38	Small update. https://www.imgur.com/a/znlrnzs I installed a rear storage box and 12v socket. I put the socket inside the bottom of the rear box. Don't worry, when the box is closed it has a small notch specifically to have a wire run from it. So I can plug my phone into power while driving, or use the tiny air pump I put in there to pump up a low tire. I also fixed the headlight issue, the headlight connector was loose. Blinkers seem to need a new relay. I ordered a new one that's adjustable so I can set the blink speed.
	0

02-12-2021, 10:44 AM	#14
slithica Join Date: Jan 2021 Posts: 38	New update! I got it titled and tagged in SC. Cost me about $140 for everything, that includes an extra 20 to have the title printed. They told me they didn't have magician in their system but they had the hawk so that's just what they listed it as. So my title and registration says 2020 hawk hs250y on it. I guess it doesn't matter. It's raining so I'm going to take it for a drive as soon as it is dry outside, (it's also cold).
	0

02-14-2021, 09:05 AM	#15
drstansbury@yahoo. Join Date: Dec 2019 Posts: 77	I think you might be able to hit 80mph with the proper mods and gearing. Now will it sustain it for any length of time is another. Im not sure the magician has the handling capabilities to comfortably ride at that speed as I've never rode one but unless your local terrain is all flat you're probably going to have to get into some deeper engine mods. Now I am interested in how the engine handler nos shot so I will definitely be following your thread. Best wishes
	0