Starting problems...help needed!

Ski_rush · 03-14-2019, 01:39 AM

Hi Everyone:

Long story short, the bike will not start. I can't get it to turn over. I spent time this afternoon trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. JerryHawk250 called me and tried to walk me through some steps to diagnose this. I'm stuck so I thought I'd reach out to the forum to see if there's something I'm missing.

1. I charged the stock battery, put it in the bike, and here was the first result. .

2. I then hooked the up the bike through another battery. The result was the solenoid was buzzing like a little woodpecker. I knew nothing about this and didn't know what was going on. Jerry helped me figure this one out. So, I got the buzzing, but nothing else. The engine didn't try to turn over; just the buzzing or fast-paced clicking from the solenoid. Here's a video of the solenoid sound:

3. Jerry thinks the bike isn't getting enough power and he recommended that I check for proper ground and any loose connections. I followed the negative terminal to the ground wire, which is bolted to a metal plate that is then bolted to the frame (see pic below). I also removed the headlight so I can gain access to the bulk of the wire connections. I didn't find any loose connections anywhere on the bile.

4. The only wiring issue that I had was when I pulled the tank off. There is a green and yellow wire connected to the back of the tank, which I'm assuming are for the fuel gauge. That green and yellow wire are pretty short and the terminal those wires are connected to were not properly crimped, so the wires just slipped right out of the connection terminal. I went to the hardware store and made some extensions for those 2 wires. I used crimped male and female connections to connect the wires. Other than that, the bike looks pretty well put together, which makes it more strange to encounter an issue of the bike not starting.

5. I put the stock battery on my battery tender/charger (assuming it was dead because it couldn’t even get my lights to turn on). Surprisingly, it was not dead; a voltmeter read 12 volts while just sitting on the counter. The voltmeter also has a load setting to test the battery under load. Here's a video of that:

As you can see in the video, while under load, the battery goes to 0.

6. What else can be causing this problem and how can I fix it? Other than a weak or defective battery, what else can be causing this? Is the solenoid also bad?

7. I did order a new battery from Amazon and I'll get it on Friday.

Thanks everyone. Please help!

Douglass · 03-14-2019, 02:11 AM

Is there a way you can check the voltage at the starter when you crank? How long did you charge the battery after adding the battery acid?

I am really thinking the battery might not be charged enough or is bad. I charge my batteries for about 3 1/2 hours after installing the acid on 2 amps.

For reference, I just cranked on my TaoTao bull 200 ATV, and the screen does stay on while cranking. I really think the battery is the place to start. Your screen dims, when you crank, and when you turn on the lights. Your not blowing the fuse. The relay or solenoid could be clicking like that due a weak power supply similar to when a car battery is two weak to crank the engine.

On my son's Apollo 125 ATV the horn, and lights turn on when the engine is not running

You can try this if you don't want to wait until your new battery arrives. Please be careful not to let the jumper cables touch anything. Remove the battery cables from the battery in the bike, and hook them up directly to your spare battery using your cables. This will bypass the battery, and hopefully crank the bike over, or just turn on the lights or activate the horn. If you do this please make sure the battery your using is NOT a car battery, but a similar style to what's in the bike. This method is to simply take your bike battery out of the equation completely to see if you get a different result by bypassing it. The battery could have a bad cell. I have run into situations with cars when the battery is bad, and will not crank the engine even when being jumped by a good battery in a running vehicle.

I bought this from Harbor Freight. It will auto detect the battery for the charge rate. It can also detect a bad battery. I use this several times a week on all my OHVs, and my car's battery to maintain the charge. They also sometimes have a coupon and it sells for 22.99. It also comes with a cable that connects to the battery so your can plug that into the battery for maintenance, and not have to take anything apart.
https://www.harborfreight.com/4-amp-...ner-63350.html

Bruces · 03-14-2019, 04:06 AM

If I am reading it right ,you said when you load tested the battery it went to zero ?if that is the case that is at least your first issue .

bogieboy · 03-14-2019, 07:08 AM

Battery is toast for starters.... even that small of a battery shouldnt drop below around 10.5v with the load on it...

**JerryHawk250** · 03-14-2019, 07:42 AM

Battery is bad. Ski_rush sent me the pictures of the battery. It was swollen. Not a good sign.

If I lived near by I would happily go and help you out?

Ski_rush · 03-14-2019, 08:04 AM

Thanks everyone. Guess I will wait until Friday when the new battery gets here. I said before that I had a bad time with the battery on the Enfotcer and was disappointed when I saw this bike came with the same one. I should have ordered a new battery earlier but I figured the stock battery would be good enough to start it...given my past experience, I never intended to ride with it.

I suspected there was a problem with this battery right at the beginning because when I hooked it up to my battery tender junior it “charged” for like a minute and then the charger had a green blinking light, which means the battery was 80% charged already...almost right of the box. Then, after maybe 30 minutes the charger gave a solid green light, which means it’s fully charged and goes into trickle mode. I knew that couldn’t be right. I removed and reinstalled the charger and same thing; goes right into trickle mode. This is just a battery tender junior charger and maintaner...as you know it’s pretty little and doesn’t put out a lot of power. Therefore, I assumed it would need hours to charge, not minutes.

I’m hoping the problem is as simple as a crap battery. If you guys can think of anything that else I can check, please let me know. I will keep you posted on Friday when the UPS guy comes with the new battery. We are having issues with flooding and it's causing road closures and even some evacuations. The temp went from 0 degrees to 50 with rain about overnight, causing all the leftover snow to melt at once. I wouldn’t be surprised if that delivery gets delayed, which sucks because I’m very eager to start this bike.

Bruces · 03-14-2019, 08:56 AM

Does it not come with a kickstart ?

Douglass · 03-14-2019, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Does it not come with a kickstart ?

The bike does come with a kick start, but the issues is electrical.

Also, if the battery is bad it could cause damage to the electrical system (stator).

Quote:

Thanks everyone. Guess I will wait until Friday when the new battery gets here. I said before that I had a bad time with the battery on the Enfotcer and was disappointed when I saw this bike came with the same one. I should have ordered a new battery earlier but I figured the stock battery would be good enough to start it...given my past experience, I never intended to ride with it.

Good choice.

Megadan · 03-14-2019, 10:41 AM

If the new battery doesn't fix it then my next stop would be the solenoid. These bikes come with cheapies obviously, and sometimes they like to stick or make poor contact.

Bruces · 03-14-2019, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Douglass

The bike does come with a kick start, but the issues is electrical.

Also, if the battery is bad it could cause damage to the electrical system (stator).

Good choice.

How do you know the issue is electrical beyond a bad battery ? Removing the battery and insulating the positive terminal isn’t going to damage anything .

Ski_rush · 03-14-2019, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Megadan

If the new battery doesn't fix it then my next stop would be the solenoid. These bikes come with cheapies obviously, and sometimes they like to stick or make poor contact.

Ya, Jerry also said it could be the solenoid. I won't order it just yet, but any recommendations on upgraded solenoids? I don't want to buy the same one that's in there. If I need to replace it, I'd like to get a better one.

From what I see online they are pretty inexpensive. Some have built in fuses and some do not. Would I want the one with a fuse, like this one?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruces

Does it not come with a kickstart ?

I don't want to kick start it...I want to press a button.

Megadan · 03-14-2019, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ski_rush

Ya, Jerry also said it could be the solenoid. I won't order it just yet, but any recommendations on upgraded solenoids? I don't want to buy the same one that's in there. If I need to replace it, I'd like to get a better one.

From what I see online they are pretty inexpensive. Some have built in fuses and some do not. Would I want the one with a fuse,

Most of those inexpensive ones you see on amazon and ebay are all cheapies like what our bikes have. My luck with them is hit or miss.

The original solenoid/relay on the Hawks is a non fused type, which is typical of many OEM Hondas as well. The most abundant and easy to source relays I have found tend to come from Goldwings, especially GL1800's. They are about 50-60 bucks new for an NOS Honda part. Search part number 35850-MCA-003. If that price is too steep for you, then you can pick up any number of options for a cheap one and give it a whirl, or search GL1800 Magnetic Starter Switch on ebay and pick up a working used one from a wrecker for $15. I have two or three of the things in my boxes of many parts that I keep as spares. Here is 1 example. https://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Honda-...oAAOSwDsZcUzrI

I would trust a used OEM Honda one over a new cheap one any day of the week. My GL1000 still had it's original unit after 40+ years and it worked like a dream.

Douglass · 03-14-2019, 11:32 AM

Quote:

How do you know the issue is electrical beyond a bad battery ? Removing the battery and insulating the positive terminal isn’t going to damage anything .

I don't know this, and I don't want to give advice that could cause damage to the system. I don't know the level of mechanical experience that Ski_rush has, and want to be more on the side of caution. You are correct, if he did remove the wires connecting to the battery, taped them of, and used the kick start there should be no issue with this at all. It just does not address the bike not starting with the electric start, horn not working, and lights not coming on.

2LZ · 03-15-2019, 02:12 PM

Any updates? I'm dying to see that thing on the road. Sure wish they were street legal here.

Hawkrider420 · 07-05-2021, 07:14 PM

Hi guys I was wondering if any1 still had there hawk here an if they got the starting issue figured out? Im asking cause I just bought the hawk dlx crossover 250cc myself n the battery was leaking so got a new American version added the acid an charged about a day on the trickle charger an now the bike won't even acknowledge like it has power what so ever! The dash dnt light up no lights at all just nothing when I go to turn the key. Ive checked the cables an connectors an fuses an everything I jus dnt know what it could be? If any1 is able 2 help id greatly appreciate it thank you.

03-14-2019, 02:11 AM	#2
Douglass Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 375	Is there a way you can check the voltage at the starter when you crank? How long did you charge the battery after adding the battery acid? I am really thinking the battery might not be charged enough or is bad. I charge my batteries for about 3 1/2 hours after installing the acid on 2 amps. For reference, I just cranked on my TaoTao bull 200 ATV, and the screen does stay on while cranking. I really think the battery is the place to start. Your screen dims, when you crank, and when you turn on the lights. Your not blowing the fuse. The relay or solenoid could be clicking like that due a weak power supply similar to when a car battery is two weak to crank the engine. On my son's Apollo 125 ATV the horn, and lights turn on when the engine is not running You can try this if you don't want to wait until your new battery arrives. Please be careful not to let the jumper cables touch anything. Remove the battery cables from the battery in the bike, and hook them up directly to your spare battery using your cables. This will bypass the battery, and hopefully crank the bike over, or just turn on the lights or activate the horn. If you do this please make sure the battery your using is NOT a car battery, but a similar style to what's in the bike. This method is to simply take your bike battery out of the equation completely to see if you get a different result by bypassing it. The battery could have a bad cell. I have run into situations with cars when the battery is bad, and will not crank the engine even when being jumped by a good battery in a running vehicle. I bought this from Harbor Freight. It will auto detect the battery for the charge rate. It can also detect a bad battery. I use this several times a week on all my OHVs, and my car's battery to maintain the charge. They also sometimes have a coupon and it sells for 22.99. It also comes with a cable that connects to the battery so your can plug that into the battery for maintenance, and not have to take anything apart. https://www.harborfreight.com/4-amp-...ner-63350.html Last edited by Douglass; 03-14-2019 at 03:03 AM.
	0

03-14-2019, 07:42 AM	#5
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,555	Battery is bad. Ski_rush sent me the pictures of the battery. It was swollen. Not a good sign. If I lived near by I would happily go and help you out? __________________ 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
	0

03-14-2019, 08:04 AM	#6
Ski_rush Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 449	Thanks everyone. Guess I will wait until Friday when the new battery gets here. I said before that I had a bad time with the battery on the Enfotcer and was disappointed when I saw this bike came with the same one. I should have ordered a new battery earlier but I figured the stock battery would be good enough to start it...given my past experience, I never intended to ride with it. I suspected there was a problem with this battery right at the beginning because when I hooked it up to my battery tender junior it “charged” for like a minute and then the charger had a green blinking light, which means the battery was 80% charged already...almost right of the box. Then, after maybe 30 minutes the charger gave a solid green light, which means it’s fully charged and goes into trickle mode. I knew that couldn’t be right. I removed and reinstalled the charger and same thing; goes right into trickle mode. This is just a battery tender junior charger and maintaner...as you know it’s pretty little and doesn’t put out a lot of power. Therefore, I assumed it would need hours to charge, not minutes. I’m hoping the problem is as simple as a crap battery. If you guys can think of anything that else I can check, please let me know. I will keep you posted on Friday when the UPS guy comes with the new battery. We are having issues with flooding and it's causing road closures and even some evacuations. The temp went from 0 degrees to 50 with rain about overnight, causing all the leftover snow to melt at once. I wouldn’t be surprised if that delivery gets delayed, which sucks because I’m very eager to start this bike. Last edited by Ski_rush; 03-14-2019 at 08:47 AM.
	1

03-14-2019, 10:41 AM	#9
Megadan Join Date: Apr 2017 Location: Omaha, NE Posts: 7,993	If the new battery doesn't fix it then my next stop would be the solenoid. These bikes come with cheapies obviously, and sometimes they like to stick or make poor contact. __________________ Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124
	0

03-15-2019, 02:12 PM	#14
2LZ Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Volcano, Ca Posts: 7,081	Any updates? I'm dying to see that thing on the road. Sure wish they were street legal here. __________________ "Light a fire for a man, and you heat him for a day. Light a man on fire, and you heat him for the rest of his life." 2007 Suzuki DRZ400S (SM convert) 2009 Q Link XP 200 1967 BSA B25 250cc Starfire 2022 Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 2023 Royal Enfield Scram 411 1948 Royal Enfield Model G 350
	2

03-14-2019, 04:06 AM	#3
Bruces Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 1,578	If I am reading it right ,you said when you load tested the battery it went to zero ?if that is the case that is at least your first issue .
	1

03-14-2019, 07:08 AM	#4
bogieboy Join Date: May 2013 Location: finger lakes NY Posts: 2,045	Battery is toast for starters.... even that small of a battery shouldnt drop below around 10.5v with the load on it...
	1

03-14-2019, 08:56 AM	#7
Bruces Join Date: May 2018 Posts: 1,578	Does it not come with a kickstart ?
	1

07-05-2021, 07:14 PM	#15
Hawkrider420 Join Date: Jul 2021 Posts: 1	Hi guys I was wondering if any1 still had there hawk here an if they got the starting issue figured out? Im asking cause I just bought the hawk dlx crossover 250cc myself n the battery was leaking so got a new American version added the acid an charged about a day on the trickle charger an now the bike won't even acknowledge like it has power what so ever! The dash dnt light up no lights at all just nothing when I go to turn the key. Ive checked the cables an connectors an fuses an everything I jus dnt know what it could be? If any1 is able 2 help id greatly appreciate it thank you.
	0