GIO Nitrogen Performance Shock Repair 101

waynev · 10-31-2009, 01:46 PM

Well i had both of my shocks apart today, 1 was an easy fix, the other not so much.

Before servicing the shocks MAKE SURE THERE IS NO PRESSURE left inside.

Removing that snap ring, to do this you can either push down hard on the red cap, if it won't budge try the method in this pic, use a 14mm socket to clear the schrader valve and only use slight pressure to move it far enough to get a small screwdriver in there to snap the ring out.

Next, remove the schrader valve with a 10mm wrench, or socket if there's enough hex sticking out, i could only use a wrench on mine.

Get a 8mm x 1.00 x 35-40mm long bolt and some washers, find a pc of metal, wood, etc with a hole in it, i used a T-square because it was in view. Use the method in this pic and screw the bolt in till the red cap is flush with the gold can. Make sure the shock is UPSIDE DOWN or you'll have oil all over.

Now that it is flush, give it a wiggle and it will come right out, here are some pics of what you'll be seeing, once again keep the shock UPSIDE DOWN so you don't spill the oil.

Now in the first pic there you can see that there is major deformation in that rubber pc, there is supposed to be 2 high spots on that rubber pc that is supposed to seal it, one of them is missing 3/4 of the way around and that is the shock that i couldn't fix.

On the shock that i could fix i noticed a small shard of rubber laying on the 2 rings so i thought that was the seal problem, i cleaned it and reinstalled everything, it still leaked, then came the trick that i have used many times on my china made RC airplane engines.
The problem lies in bad QC and sometimes a groove that is a little too deep will cause problems, my fix is simply some DENTAL FLOSS to make up for badly machined parts, in the next 2 pics the rubber has been removed from the red cap and the groove has been wrapped with dental floss.

Once it has been wrapped, slide the rubber pc. back on and push it back into the shock, it should be quite tight, if you can't get it in by hand then remove a couple of turns of the floss and repeat, push it all the way in and replace the snap ring, install the schrader valve ( make sure o-ring is still good ) and then it's ready to see if the seal has been made.

This worked for the shock with the good looking rubber, the one with the deformed rubber pc. would just not seal and will have to be replaced.

I was also concerned about the oil level, 1 shock reservoir was about 1/2 full of oil and the other one hardly had any in it, not too sure on that one but i'm guessing that the one 1/2 full would probably be correct.

Well good luck to you and hopefully this too will solve your shock problem.

Weldangrind · 10-31-2009, 01:58 PM

Thanks waynev, that's excellent!

May we please see a photo of the rest of the rubber piece? It doesn't need to be a real close-up, it would just be informative to see the whole thing.

waynev · 10-31-2009, 02:06 PM

That is the whole pc., it is a rubber cap that is mounted to the red aluminum pc, that is where the nitrogen pressure is stored to give resistance to the shock oil that will press on it when the shock is compressed, varying the nitrogen pressure controls the compression rate of the shock.

Weldangrind · 10-31-2009, 02:37 PM

Ok, I get it now. I can see the end of the rubber boot in the first photo.

Could the rubber boot be sealed to the aluminum part before installation? Dpending on the rubber composition, maybe some tire bead sauce or some black rtv before the boot is slid into place. In the case of rtv, I'd give it 24 hours to cure before installation.

Another option would be trying to source nitrogen shock parts. Perhaps all that are interested could do a Google search and share details here.

BTW, I like the floss trick; I'll remember that. 8)

waynev · 10-31-2009, 02:45 PM

Not sure if that would seal it or not under 150-250 psi, i'm darn sure that the groove in the red aluminum cap is too deep and when placed in the reservoir and pressurized the seal is comprimised.

TurboT · 10-31-2009, 03:20 PM

Thanks waynev, excellent post!

waynec · 10-31-2009, 04:27 PM

Hi Waynev ...thx so much for taking the time to document this. John/Gio should owe you big time for this one. It will save them much agro. I remain confident they will respond appropriately to this issue....

First start on my beast and it cranked just long enough for me to think...oh crap.....but then is caught and runs great. I had cut the bottom off the stock air filter until I get a better one but the neck and elbow fell apart during the first ride. It will just be a day or 2 with-out. Sure hope these new shocks come close to thier billing. I find the machine rides like a lawn tractor the suspension is so firm. Love it anyway.....waynec

Weldangrind · 10-31-2009, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynev

Not sure if that would seal it or not under 150-250 psi, i'm darn sure that the groove in the red aluminum cap is too deep and when placed in the reservoir and pressurized the seal is comprimised.

What if you tried to take up some of the groove space with a small diameter o-ring?

waynev · 10-31-2009, 06:37 PM

That may also work, but the rubber pc that goes in there is flat, that is why i used the dental floss cause it still leaves it flat, and when i had a little too much floss the pc wouldn't go back into the shock, so i'm guessing about .010-.015" is all that is needed, not sure you'll be able to find an o-ring that skinny.

PCD · 10-31-2009, 06:58 PM

Thank you very much for going the time and trouble wayne.

Maybe a thin band of rubber, say from a bicycle inner tube could be cut to fit? Like a flat donut.

Lots of different diameter inner tubes out there. Whaddya think?

waynev · 10-31-2009, 07:09 PM

That too may work, but i'm pretty sure tubes are around .030"-.050" thick which will be too much based on the amount of floss i used, i used about 2 layers of floss that covered the surface of that groove and that seemed to work.

PCD · 11-01-2009, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynev

That too may work, but i'm pretty sure tubes are around .030"-.050" thick which will be too much based on the amount of floss i used, i used about 2 layers of floss that covered the surface of that groove and that seemed to work.

Alrighty, thanks to waynev's excellent pics i had both mine apart quickly today.
Both lands at the top of the rubber sac were non existant. So I tried anyway using 4 wraps of teflon tape (apprx. 0.025)...had a bitch of a time getting them back in, but I used a large diameter flat washer under my C-clamp to insert them straight. A very minute amount of rubber seal got shave off so they certainly were tight enough.

Oh, both my cans were 50% full of oil so I left them alone.

Then I used two new O rings for the schraders. Then I used 2 new stems for the schraders.

Both leaked like a sieve.

Hmmm...OK, took out schrader, put in new O ring again, used large flat washer with ID the same as the schrader. Put O ring on shock counterbore which is cut out for the O ring to sit, flat washer next, schrader last.

No Joy but I promise you they werent leaking around the schrader.

Pail of water, nitrogen, and pissed off Pete was next.

Both shocks looked like Jacques Coustou diving on a coral reef.

Now I'm really annoyed.

Soooo...went to the tire area and found some extensions and put them on, then got some kind of dual tube expoxy resin crap that hardens like concrete and went to town.

At this point they are garbage anway, what do I have to lose?

Stay tuned...I'll give em a couple days to dry...if they still leak...I give up.

waynec · 11-01-2009, 07:28 PM

John has insisted on a picture of my shocks which I have provided.

Just because Gio pricing is reasonable is no reason to accept defective product. I will rip mine apart if left with no option but I won't go quietly. I have already placed a couple of tenative bids on a T3 200 but will now wait to see how this plays out.

What has anyone elses feedback been from Gio?

thx
waynec

PCD · 11-01-2009, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waynec

John has insisted on a picture of my shocks which I have provided.

Just because Gio pricing is reasonable is no reason to accept defective product. I will rip mine apart if left with no option but I won't go quietly. I have already placed a couple of tenative bids on a T3 200 but will now wait to see how this plays out.

What has anyone elses feedback been from Gio?

thx
waynec

All I want to say is I'm not taken care of yet in regard to the defective shocks. Still working on it which is why I havent posted much about them.

I'm the guy that calls the number on the pop machine if it burns me for a buck wayne

So why did I attempt a fix? Main reason is because these shocks probably come over in lots of a gross or more. CNC runs being what they are, its quite probably they are mostly all defective.

So do i want another set of defective shocks? No.

When I this issue resolved I will post, you have my word.

EDIT: Fix spelling, correct context.

waynev · 11-01-2009, 08:01 PM

PCD, if the rubber looked bad to start with then you probably weren't going to get a good seal anyways, but if you re-read my 1st post it says you must be able to put them back in by hand, if you needed a clamp then you added too much tape in the groove.

One thing to remember is the nitrogen is supposed to be sealed in that rubber cap, the seals on the outside of that cap is what keeps the oil from leaking out and the nitrogen from leaking into the oil. IMHO i think those rubber caps are defective.

10-31-2009, 01:46 PM	#1
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	GIO Nitrogen Performance Shock Repair 101 Well i had both of my shocks apart today, 1 was an easy fix, the other not so much. Before servicing the shocks MAKE SURE THERE IS NO PRESSURE left inside. Removing that snap ring, to do this you can either push down hard on the red cap, if it won't budge try the method in this pic, use a 14mm socket to clear the schrader valve and only use slight pressure to move it far enough to get a small screwdriver in there to snap the ring out. Next, remove the schrader valve with a 10mm wrench, or socket if there's enough hex sticking out, i could only use a wrench on mine. Get a 8mm x 1.00 x 35-40mm long bolt and some washers, find a pc of metal, wood, etc with a hole in it, i used a T-square because it was in view. Use the method in this pic and screw the bolt in till the red cap is flush with the gold can. Make sure the shock is UPSIDE DOWN or you'll have oil all over. Now that it is flush, give it a wiggle and it will come right out, here are some pics of what you'll be seeing, once again keep the shock UPSIDE DOWN so you don't spill the oil. Now in the first pic there you can see that there is major deformation in that rubber pc, there is supposed to be 2 high spots on that rubber pc that is supposed to seal it, one of them is missing 3/4 of the way around and that is the shock that i couldn't fix. On the shock that i could fix i noticed a small shard of rubber laying on the 2 rings so i thought that was the seal problem, i cleaned it and reinstalled everything, it still leaked, then came the trick that i have used many times on my china made RC airplane engines. The problem lies in bad QC and sometimes a groove that is a little too deep will cause problems, my fix is simply some DENTAL FLOSS to make up for badly machined parts, in the next 2 pics the rubber has been removed from the red cap and the groove has been wrapped with dental floss. Once it has been wrapped, slide the rubber pc. back on and push it back into the shock, it should be quite tight, if you can't get it in by hand then remove a couple of turns of the floss and repeat, push it all the way in and replace the snap ring, install the schrader valve ( make sure o-ring is still good ) and then it's ready to see if the seal has been made. This worked for the shock with the good looking rubber, the one with the deformed rubber pc. would just not seal and will have to be replaced. I was also concerned about the oil level, 1 shock reservoir was about 1/2 full of oil and the other one hardly had any in it, not too sure on that one but i'm guessing that the one 1/2 full would probably be correct. Well good luck to you and hopefully this too will solve your shock problem.
	0

10-31-2009, 01:58 PM	#2
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Thanks waynev, that's excellent! May we please see a photo of the rest of the rubber piece? It doesn't need to be a real close-up, it would just be informative to see the whole thing. __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-31-2009, 02:37 PM	#4
Weldangrind Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Sardis, BC, Canada Posts: 25,977	Ok, I get it now. I can see the end of the rubber boot in the first photo. Could the rubber boot be sealed to the aluminum part before installation? Dpending on the rubber composition, maybe some tire bead sauce or some black rtv before the boot is slid into place. In the case of rtv, I'd give it 24 hours to cure before installation. Another option would be trying to source nitrogen shock parts. Perhaps all that are interested could do a Google search and share details here. BTW, I like the floss trick; I'll remember that. 8) __________________ Weldangrind "I figure I'm well-prepared for coping with a bike that comes from the factory with unresolved issues and that rewards the self-reliant owner." - Buccaneer
	0

10-31-2009, 06:58 PM	#10
PCD Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Newmarket On Canada Posts: 382	Thank you very much for going the time and trouble wayne. Maybe a thin band of rubber, say from a bicycle inner tube could be cut to fit? Like a flat donut. Lots of different diameter inner tubes out there. Whaddya think? __________________ Good, Fast, or Cheap....Pick Two.
	0

10-31-2009, 02:06 PM	#3
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	That is the whole pc., it is a rubber cap that is mounted to the red aluminum pc, that is where the nitrogen pressure is stored to give resistance to the shock oil that will press on it when the shock is compressed, varying the nitrogen pressure controls the compression rate of the shock.
	0

10-31-2009, 02:45 PM	#5
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	Not sure if that would seal it or not under 150-250 psi, i'm darn sure that the groove in the red aluminum cap is too deep and when placed in the reservoir and pressurized the seal is comprimised.
	0

10-31-2009, 03:20 PM	#6
TurboT Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Surrey, B.C., Canada Posts: 2,185	Thanks waynev, excellent post!
	0

10-31-2009, 04:27 PM	#7
waynec Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ottawa Posts: 119	Hi Waynev ...thx so much for taking the time to document this. John/Gio should owe you big time for this one. It will save them much agro. I remain confident they will respond appropriately to this issue.... First start on my beast and it cranked just long enough for me to think...oh crap.....but then is caught and runs great. I had cut the bottom off the stock air filter until I get a better one but the neck and elbow fell apart during the first ride. It will just be a day or 2 with-out. Sure hope these new shocks come close to thier billing. I find the machine rides like a lawn tractor the suspension is so firm. Love it anyway.....waynec
	0

10-31-2009, 06:37 PM	#9
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	That may also work, but the rubber pc that goes in there is flat, that is why i used the dental floss cause it still leaves it flat, and when i had a little too much floss the pc wouldn't go back into the shock, so i'm guessing about .010-.015" is all that is needed, not sure you'll be able to find an o-ring that skinny.
	0

10-31-2009, 07:09 PM	#11
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	That too may work, but i'm pretty sure tubes are around .030"-.050" thick which will be too much based on the amount of floss i used, i used about 2 layers of floss that covered the surface of that groove and that seemed to work.
	0

11-01-2009, 07:28 PM	#13
waynec Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Ottawa Posts: 119	John has insisted on a picture of my shocks which I have provided. Just because Gio pricing is reasonable is no reason to accept defective product. I will rip mine apart if left with no option but I won't go quietly. I have already placed a couple of tenative bids on a T3 200 but will now wait to see how this plays out. What has anyone elses feedback been from Gio? thx waynec
	0

11-01-2009, 08:01 PM	#15
waynev Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: London, Ontario Posts: 1,097	PCD, if the rubber looked bad to start with then you probably weren't going to get a good seal anyways, but if you re-read my 1st post it says you must be able to put them back in by hand, if you needed a clamp then you added too much tape in the groove. One thing to remember is the nitrogen is supposed to be sealed in that rubber cap, the seals on the outside of that cap is what keeps the oil from leaking out and the nitrogen from leaking into the oil. IMHO i think those rubber caps are defective.
	0