I have an engine problem

Riceburner · 03-04-2016, 07:17 PM

Ok Zongophyles or Zongoligest's,

Just started hearing a noise in what seems to be the right side engine case, since I have only had the 9 months and less than 5,000 Km I took it to the dealer in anticipation of warranty work. following is an email I just sent to the dealer in preparing for work on it come Monday.

any ideas of what I may want to look up between now and Monday?

MSS Cycle Trading
Delgado St., Iloilo City

CC: Eastworld Motor Industries Corp.
307 3rd St., 10th Ave., Brgy 108
Kal00kan City

RE: Xplorer Z250R, Motorcycle
Engine No: ZS177MM5F300076
Chassis No: LZSJDNLC2F5200609

Attention Shiela,

As you know I left my bike at your shop on Friday March 4th to have it inspected for a noise that has developed in what seems to be the right side engine case area. Romar you mechanic said to me it sounds like the clutch rubber plate is loose. He made reference to having to replace the rivets and having the work done at a machine shop.

This sound developed or became aware to me on March 3rd on my ride home from the city, this being the first time since February 20th that I have ridden the bike. I had stopped to talk with my friend and my automotive mechanic Fermin, since I was riding the bike and had my helmet on I could not hear the noise. Ferman said "that doesn't sound good". I asked what he meant and he said the sound is like a main bearing is bad, maybe the crank. I rode home maybe a 200 meters and asked my Brother-in-Law to listen, he is also a trained engine mechanic and he also said main bearing or maybe a piston pin. He said it's not valve with a "tic-tic" sound but a "tok - tok" kind of sound. Neither of these two trained mechanic's indicated a clutch related possibility.

I have not opened the clutch assembly on this bike but from my past experience I am not aware of any "rubber" mounting assembly in a clutch assembly, now I might be wrong but this doesn't sound right to me. I'm also not aware of any rivets that would be removed by a machine shop in this assembly either.

What concerns me is Romar's thought process here. This is still a new motorcycle and is covered under warranty for any defective parts. I would not accept a machine shop cut and patch approach to repair of any defective manufacturer parts and insist on replacement with original manufacture parts under warranty. The bike has less than 5,000 Km on it. This noise became much more pronounced on my ride to your shop on Friday. Romar had told me to ride back home and return on Monday but as I told him and you I did not feel comfortable making that additional 42 Km round trip and was concerned about possibly incurring more damage and thus I left the bike in your custody.

I am concerned with Romar's lack of knowledge concerning the Zongshen RX3 and the NC250 engine. I like Romar, he's a nice young man but lacks the professional knowledge to do proper and professional repair on this model bike. I have first hand past experience with him in this matter and have commented on it in earlier verbal and written communication with you and Motorstar about it.

I was told by Randy your local head mechanic after the carb repair and replacement that he spent two weeks in Manila being trained in respect to this model bike and engine. I would feel much more comfortable having Randy do an inspection and repair or replacement of parts in relation to the possible manufacturer defects. There is something wrong with the engine, there should not a sound like this and there should not be any loose components in the engine.

I want to be present when the process of taking components off and inspection of such is started. Keep in mind that I live in Tigbauan, 21 Km from the city and it can take me an hour travel time to get to your shop location. Romar had indicated that he would start the process on Monday at 9:00 AM but again I'm not comfortable with his ability. Please respond as soon as possible as to the action and time and as to whom will be doing the work so I can be present.

I am doing much research into this issue as possible on the internet and hope to be more informed by Monday.

Thank you in advance for time and consideration in this matter.

Sincerely,

Robin Haywood

SpudRider · 03-04-2016, 11:47 PM

I'm sorry to hear of your problems, Robin.

Sometimes the base of the clutch basket does have rubber dampers. If Roman is correct, this repair should be relatively easy. You are correct; you should get a new clutch basket, instead of a repaired clutch basket.

If the piston pin is loose, the mechanic will need to remove the cylinder head, and the cylinder. Then he will inspect the cylinder and piston for damage, et cetera. Once again, you should receive new parts for anything which is damaged.

If a crankshaft bearing is bad, this is the worst scenario. The mechanic will need to remove the top end of the engine, and split the crankcases. In this case, I think you should get a new replacement engine.

Please keep us updated.

Riceburner · 03-05-2016, 06:14 PM

Thanks Spud.

I got a text yesterday morning from the shop Manager, her day off but said Romar was working on my bike now... AAAHHHHH was my my response.

I was out doing errands and hadn't planned on going to the city so I didn't have my exploded drawings with me but I raced the 11 Km into the city, that took 45 min., the traffic here is nuts and then the road work too.

Well Romar hadn't gotten to working on it yet but we did get to take the clutch out. I have to admit that I have a problem in communicating with many of the Filipinos because I don't speak the language, only a few basic works, not enough to communicate. And in Romar's case he doesn't speak English well. So he's trying to tell me before taking the clutch out that the Bronze is most likely bad. The Bronze??? He couldn't explain it to me, all he kept saying was "the Bonze".

As I mentioned, he doesn't have the experience with this engine, he mostly works on 100, 110 and 125 cc bikes. The Bronze he was referring to is a sleeve between the clutch housing and the shaft; seems the smaller bikes don't have bearings .

When he took off the clutch cover we could grasp the clutch housing and actually move it side to side or up and down, obvious movement and more than I'd think there should be. Pull out the clutch and there are two roller bearings, not Bronze bushing. It seems these two Roller Bearing are worn. I think it's odd that they would be worn at 4,700 Km but this seems the most likely issue at this time. I had him remove the magnetic drain plug and there was not metal pieces, chunks or shavings. I feel this is a good sign, if the Main Crank Bearing or Piston Pin were bad I'd expect to see some metal parts on the plug. Had only what I'd consider normal residue.

The two Roller Bearings do not show on the CSC exploded clutch housing diagram I printed, it looks more like a Bushing.

So now on Monday they have to contact the Manila main branch and see if the bearings are in stock and I doubt it , again my lack of confidence in Motorstar. I ordered a back up pair of rear disk brake pads the day I purchased the bike and now nine months latter they still have not arrived.

I'm going to contact my Taobao agent and see if they can help me find them, think I'll also send and email to CSC and see what they have to say. Even a month delivery time from CSC to me is better than 9 months of no delivery from Motorstar.

Thanks Spud for the Zongshen RX3: Clutch Assembly tutorial, http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=15612, your pictures show the bearings well.

I'll let you know what develops up the road and if anyone else has ideas please share.

SpudRider · 03-05-2016, 07:43 PM

It seems to me that Romar probably found the problem.

Please do keep us updated, Robin.

Juanro · 03-05-2016, 08:04 PM

Hi, there were a few cases here, including my own bike, where the clutch housing was noisy due to a not properly torque'd central nut. Did you check if the nut holding the clutch basket was, well... tight? If not, probably it being loose could have cause the bearings to fail. Hope this helps.

Juanro

Riceburner · 03-05-2016, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juanro

Hi, there were a few cases here, including my own bike, where the clutch housing was noisy due to a not properly torque'd central nut. Did you check if the nut holding the clutch basket was, well... tight? If not, probably it being loose could have cause the bearings to fail. Hope this helps.

Juanro

Thanks for the response Juano. Well Romar had to get an impact driver to break the nut loose so I'd say it was tight.

Riceburner · 03-05-2016, 09:50 PM

Well since I'm working on the bike and because it's made in China, I think I need a metric crescent wrench, looked at Harbor Freight and couldn't find it, can anyone help? If I'd thought about it I could have picked one up when we were in Hong Kong in February ...

RedHawk47 · 03-05-2016, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riceburner

Well since I'm working on the bike and because it's made in China, I think I need a metric crescent wrench, looked at Harbor Freight and couldn't find it, can anyone help? If I'd thought about it I could have picked one up when we were in Hong Kong in February ...

I had a metric crescent wrench at one time. It was made in Sweden and it drove me crazy. The adjuster screw had left hand threads so when you turned it in the direction that would normally open the wrench it would close the wrench

Tranberg · 03-06-2016, 05:24 AM

Actually, the original BAHCO crescent wrench has the adjuster screw correct, but the knock-offs have it reversed, to circumvent the patent rights.

rjmorel · 03-07-2016, 02:23 PM

All I can find around here are left hand crescent wrenches and I'm right handed. Whats a fella to do? rj

jct842 · 03-07-2016, 02:38 PM

Am trying to find a left handed piano............maybe some one could help?

Sport Rider · 03-07-2016, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjmorel

All I can find around here are left hand crescent wrenches and I'm right handed. Whats a fella to do? rj

cut off your right hand. that will force you to learn to use the left. in the long run you will love it!

rtking · 03-07-2016, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sport Rider

cut off your right hand. that will force you to learn to use the left. in the long run you will love it!

But in order to cut off his right hand, he would require a left handed saw or left handed axe. Where to get one of those?

rjmorel · 03-07-2016, 09:36 PM

Probably on the shelf next to the left handed Cresent wrenches I'm thinking, rj

Jay In Milpitas · 03-12-2016, 11:20 PM

Update, Robin?

03-04-2016, 07:17 PM	#1
Riceburner Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Tigbauan, Iloilo City, Panay Island, Philippines Posts: 177	I have an engine problem Ok Zongophyles or Zongoligest's, Just started hearing a noise in what seems to be the right side engine case, since I have only had the 9 months and less than 5,000 Km I took it to the dealer in anticipation of warranty work. following is an email I just sent to the dealer in preparing for work on it come Monday. any ideas of what I may want to look up between now and Monday? MSS Cycle Trading Delgado St., Iloilo City CC: Eastworld Motor Industries Corp. 307 3rd St., 10th Ave., Brgy 108 Kal00kan City RE: Xplorer Z250R, Motorcycle Engine No: ZS177MM5F300076 Chassis No: LZSJDNLC2F5200609 Attention Shiela, As you know I left my bike at your shop on Friday March 4th to have it inspected for a noise that has developed in what seems to be the right side engine case area. Romar you mechanic said to me it sounds like the clutch rubber plate is loose. He made reference to having to replace the rivets and having the work done at a machine shop. This sound developed or became aware to me on March 3rd on my ride home from the city, this being the first time since February 20th that I have ridden the bike. I had stopped to talk with my friend and my automotive mechanic Fermin, since I was riding the bike and had my helmet on I could not hear the noise. Ferman said "that doesn't sound good". I asked what he meant and he said the sound is like a main bearing is bad, maybe the crank. I rode home maybe a 200 meters and asked my Brother-in-Law to listen, he is also a trained engine mechanic and he also said main bearing or maybe a piston pin. He said it's not valve with a "tic-tic" sound but a "tok - tok" kind of sound. Neither of these two trained mechanic's indicated a clutch related possibility. I have not opened the clutch assembly on this bike but from my past experience I am not aware of any "rubber" mounting assembly in a clutch assembly, now I might be wrong but this doesn't sound right to me. I'm also not aware of any rivets that would be removed by a machine shop in this assembly either. What concerns me is Romar's thought process here. This is still a new motorcycle and is covered under warranty for any defective parts. I would not accept a machine shop cut and patch approach to repair of any defective manufacturer parts and insist on replacement with original manufacture parts under warranty. The bike has less than 5,000 Km on it. This noise became much more pronounced on my ride to your shop on Friday. Romar had told me to ride back home and return on Monday but as I told him and you I did not feel comfortable making that additional 42 Km round trip and was concerned about possibly incurring more damage and thus I left the bike in your custody. I am concerned with Romar's lack of knowledge concerning the Zongshen RX3 and the NC250 engine. I like Romar, he's a nice young man but lacks the professional knowledge to do proper and professional repair on this model bike. I have first hand past experience with him in this matter and have commented on it in earlier verbal and written communication with you and Motorstar about it. I was told by Randy your local head mechanic after the carb repair and replacement that he spent two weeks in Manila being trained in respect to this model bike and engine. I would feel much more comfortable having Randy do an inspection and repair or replacement of parts in relation to the possible manufacturer defects. There is something wrong with the engine, there should not a sound like this and there should not be any loose components in the engine. I want to be present when the process of taking components off and inspection of such is started. Keep in mind that I live in Tigbauan, 21 Km from the city and it can take me an hour travel time to get to your shop location. Romar had indicated that he would start the process on Monday at 9:00 AM but again I'm not comfortable with his ability. Please respond as soon as possible as to the action and time and as to whom will be doing the work so I can be present. I am doing much research into this issue as possible on the internet and hope to be more informed by Monday. Thank you in advance for time and consideration in this matter. Sincerely, Robin Haywood __________________ Riceburner Robin / Face Hunter I Medical Mission Matters www.medicalmissionmatters.org
	0

03-04-2016, 11:47 PM	#2
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	I'm sorry to hear of your problems, Robin. Sometimes the base of the clutch basket does have rubber dampers. If Roman is correct, this repair should be relatively easy. You are correct; you should get a new clutch basket, instead of a repaired clutch basket. If the piston pin is loose, the mechanic will need to remove the cylinder head, and the cylinder. Then he will inspect the cylinder and piston for damage, et cetera. Once again, you should receive new parts for anything which is damaged. If a crankshaft bearing is bad, this is the worst scenario. The mechanic will need to remove the top end of the engine, and split the crankcases. In this case, I think you should get a new replacement engine. Please keep us updated. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	0

03-05-2016, 06:14 PM	#3
Riceburner Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Tigbauan, Iloilo City, Panay Island, Philippines Posts: 177	Thanks Spud. I got a text yesterday morning from the shop Manager, her day off but said Romar was working on my bike now... AAAHHHHH was my my response. I was out doing errands and hadn't planned on going to the city so I didn't have my exploded drawings with me but I raced the 11 Km into the city, that took 45 min., the traffic here is nuts and then the road work too. Well Romar hadn't gotten to working on it yet but we did get to take the clutch out. I have to admit that I have a problem in communicating with many of the Filipinos because I don't speak the language, only a few basic works, not enough to communicate. And in Romar's case he doesn't speak English well. So he's trying to tell me before taking the clutch out that the Bronze is most likely bad. The Bronze??? He couldn't explain it to me, all he kept saying was "the Bonze". As I mentioned, he doesn't have the experience with this engine, he mostly works on 100, 110 and 125 cc bikes. The Bronze he was referring to is a sleeve between the clutch housing and the shaft; seems the smaller bikes don't have bearings . When he took off the clutch cover we could grasp the clutch housing and actually move it side to side or up and down, obvious movement and more than I'd think there should be. Pull out the clutch and there are two roller bearings, not Bronze bushing. It seems these two Roller Bearing are worn. I think it's odd that they would be worn at 4,700 Km but this seems the most likely issue at this time. I had him remove the magnetic drain plug and there was not metal pieces, chunks or shavings. I feel this is a good sign, if the Main Crank Bearing or Piston Pin were bad I'd expect to see some metal parts on the plug. Had only what I'd consider normal residue. The two Roller Bearings do not show on the CSC exploded clutch housing diagram I printed, it looks more like a Bushing. So now on Monday they have to contact the Manila main branch and see if the bearings are in stock and I doubt it , again my lack of confidence in Motorstar. I ordered a back up pair of rear disk brake pads the day I purchased the bike and now nine months latter they still have not arrived. I'm going to contact my Taobao agent and see if they can help me find them, think I'll also send and email to CSC and see what they have to say. Even a month delivery time from CSC to me is better than 9 months of no delivery from Motorstar. Thanks Spud for the Zongshen RX3: Clutch Assembly tutorial, http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=15612, your pictures show the bearings well. I'll let you know what develops up the road and if anyone else has ideas please share. __________________ Riceburner Robin / Face Hunter I Medical Mission Matters www.medicalmissionmatters.org
	0

03-05-2016, 07:43 PM	#4
SpudRider Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Idaho Posts: 25,054	It seems to me that Romar probably found the problem. Please do keep us updated, Robin. __________________ Spud "Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, and beat you with experience." Mark Twain 2015 Zongshen ZS250GY-3 (RX3) 2006 Zongshen ZS200GY-2 (Sierra 200) 2005 Honda XR650L 2004 Honda CRF250X 1998 Kawasaki KDX220 Mods made to my Zongshen ZS200GY-2: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=6894
	0

03-05-2016, 09:50 PM	#7
Riceburner Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Tigbauan, Iloilo City, Panay Island, Philippines Posts: 177	Well since I'm working on the bike and because it's made in China, I think I need a metric crescent wrench, looked at Harbor Freight and couldn't find it, can anyone help? If I'd thought about it I could have picked one up when we were in Hong Kong in February ... __________________ Riceburner Robin / Face Hunter I Medical Mission Matters www.medicalmissionmatters.org
	1

03-05-2016, 08:04 PM	#5
Juanro Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 321	Hi, there were a few cases here, including my own bike, where the clutch housing was noisy due to a not properly torque'd central nut. Did you check if the nut holding the clutch basket was, well... tight? If not, probably it being loose could have cause the bearings to fail. Hope this helps. Juanro
	0

03-06-2016, 05:24 AM	#9
Tranberg Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Denmark, Europe Posts: 53	Actually, the original BAHCO crescent wrench has the adjuster screw correct, but the knock-offs have it reversed, to circumvent the patent rights.
	0

03-07-2016, 02:23 PM	#10
rjmorel Join Date: May 2007 Location: Warshington Posts: 928	All I can find around here are left hand crescent wrenches and I'm right handed. Whats a fella to do? rj __________________ Live Zong, and Prosper
	0

03-07-2016, 02:38 PM	#11
jct842 Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: arkansas Posts: 297	Am trying to find a left handed piano............maybe some one could help?
	0

03-07-2016, 09:36 PM	#14
rjmorel Join Date: May 2007 Location: Warshington Posts: 928	Probably on the shelf next to the left handed Cresent wrenches I'm thinking, rj __________________ Live Zong, and Prosper
	0

03-12-2016, 11:20 PM	#15
Jay In Milpitas Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Milpitas, CA. USA Posts: 775	Update, Robin?
	1