CSC SG400's Are Finally In

[krat]

Yep, $900 difference. For that you get;

120 years of bike building experience.

And you get a full three year warranty with parts in inventory and work done by the local dealer. It's not E-bay/Fed-X and DIY!

And you get full road service. If a RE breaks down they feel so bad about it that they send a truck pick you up!

Some would say those things were actually necessities and expected with a new bike purchase.

But you gotta' do what you gotta' do.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by XLsior

$900USD isn't chump change but neither is an additional 250cc displacement.
Build quality I believe RE has improved enough to not be as concerned.

Not to Say the SG400 isn't a decent bike either and $900 could get some decent custom upgrade options. First thing I'd be ditching is the weird tail appendage


had a dream of going to India and finding a RE Diesel Bullet. Riding it back to Australia....Not likely anytime soon given the way the world turned out or the probability of Australian customs killing the plan with fees and regulations.

I don't disagree. The quality has improved some, but they still aren't perfect either.

That extra 250cc gets you 11hp and 14lb-ft in US English. The difference is still in how that power is delivered, with the RE being a nice low RPM torque machine that gets a bit anemic at the top (not bad, just a bit). That extra 250cc's also comes with 90lbs of extra weight, which is a big thing to keep in mind. Those big 650's are overbuilt heavy lumps (not a bad thing, just a fact).

I love the RE, but curosity has me.

Originally Posted by krat

Yep, $900 difference. For that you get;

120 years of bike building experience.

And you get a full three year warranty with parts in inventory and work done by the local dealer. It's not E-bay/Fed-X and DIY!

And you get full road service. If a RE breaks down they feel so bad about it that they send a truck pick you up!

Some would say those things were actually necessities and expected with a new bike purchase.

But you gotta' do what you gotta' do.

120 years of bike building experience? I will grant that, but with an asterix. Between multiple owners and two continents. That 120 years definitely shows in the design of the bike...

Yes, you do get a 3 year warranty, that is a selling point for sure.

CSC does however help their owners with warranty repair by working with local shops to help pay for repairs and supply parts. CSC isn't quite your typical Chonda retailer. That is the ONLY reason I am even looking at this bike considering the kind of money involved.

The only real thing lacking there is the local dealer support, which I have considered. That is actually one of the big selling points for the RE actually.

Another big selling point is re-sale ability. I post a RE Interceptor 650 up for sale used and it will probably sell pretty quick for a decent price. I put the SG400 up for sale used and I am guaranteed to take a huge loss, even by motorcycle standards.

Last big selling point is the enormous aftermarket support. To me that is no small thing, because being a big and tall guy it's very necessary for me to do some upgrades. I can get full suspension kits, bespoke luggage kits from major retailers, seats from companies like Corbin, and on and on. Sky is the limit.

I am not a blind fool, but I am an adventurous fool that likes to step off the beaten path (There is a reason my Youtube name is OddBallPerformance). Hell ,I bought a Hawk. I modded the crap out of said Hawk. I could have easily gone another direction, but I didn't. I also don't regret it one bit.

I will say this. I do think the SG400 should be priced a lower than it is (hack at least $500 off the price) At $5500 delivered I can name several other bikes at or close to that same price range with similar performance from other big brands too.
The Z400 immediately comes to mind, and it's almost the exact same price after fees etc.
The Yamaha MT03 is actually cheaper, and it comes with that amazing 321cc twin from the R3 (which is more powerful than the SG400). The MT03 is actually the other bike on my consideration list.
My only real issue with either of those bikes is the very modern angular and aggressive styling... it just isn't me. I love more classic or understated styling, which is why the Interceptor and SG400 are more appealing to me.

[Chris_Top_Her]

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3

And just exactly how much are you willing to spend for an air/oil cooled 650cc motorcycle? After you go and tear apart your new bike, add a S&S big bore kit, swap the cam, install new connecting rods, flash a new ECU tune, put on a new exhaust to take advantage of the engine mods, change out the clip ons and rear sets, and swap the fairings, I'm pretty sure you're going to end up with a $9000 - $10,000 70 HP bike, at best. At this point, Yamaha will be happy to sell you an XSR 700 (way better engine) or XSR900 (super way better engine) that will blow it out of the water from a cost and performance standpoint, and still leave a good chunk of change in your pocket. Honda will gladly set you up with a CB650R with a sweet inline four for the same amount, too.

For myself, I am not looking to buy a brand new bike, then turn around, tear it apart, and attempt to rebuild it into something that already exists, and in a much better guise. I want a low cost, sub 650cc parallel twin bike, with moderate power, more style than me (a low bar, I'll admit), low weight, low to no electronics, $200 a year full coverage insurance (that includes break down and towing coverage), and built by a company with a reputation for putting out quality product. Hello Zongshen RE3/CSC SG400. It ticks all the boxes for $5500.00, delivered to my doorstep. What more can you ask for than that?

If I need more than the SG400's 40 HP, I'll hop on my Versys 650 or Gold Wing GL1500 to scratch that itch, not blow a ton of money trying to make it or a RE 650 into something that they're not.

[Wild Dog]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3

By the time you are done doing all those mods, the motorcycle would end up being as expensive as a Japanese 650 and guess what? It will be still underpowered next to the Japs 650.

Royal Enfield ain't for the speedster.
Their engines are workhorse not racehorse , just take a look at their designs at their specs and you will see what i mean.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Chris_Top_Her

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3

The performance aftermarket isn't really what I am after though. I have a nearly 200hp vfr1200f if I get the speed demon itch. The only aftermarket that appeals to me is the suspension and seat side.of things, because as previously mentioned, I am a big and tall kind of guy, and I usually have to adjust the bikes factory setup to match me.

My main interest in either bike is just a easy highway capable and fun commuter that has really good economy.

[XLsior]

That SG400 fuel range/MPG is nothing to sneeze at.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by XLsior

That SG400 fuel range/MPG is nothing to sneeze at.

Yeah, that is one thing that impressed me for sure. It's actually better than my Hawk lol. One of my biggest complaints of most modern bikes is their relatively small tank capacity. Not really an issue if you ride around in town, but living where I do where towns and fuel stations can quickly become far apart in short order, it would be nice to know I have that kind of range available to me.

I also like that the SG400 uses tubless spoke rims and standard sport bike tire sizes with a 120/70-17 front and 150/70-17 rear. That opens up a huge world of options.

[XLsior]

The cost of tank upgrade even if there is such an option would cost $200 minimum at best. Otherwise you're strapping cans for remote range.

In Australia going somewhere could take a couple of hours...having the fuel to get back out again is the important factor, This isn't offroad either...big place, big distances between stations.

Being the tinkerer you are Megadan any warranty on the RE would likely be void.

If the prices were identical yeah I'd probably go the RE mostly for the resale value after 3 years.

Tubless rims and tire options are always appreciated.No need to carry spoons, tubes and patch kits...just a plug kit.

Can of orange paint and a weekend should sort out any color desires.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by XLsior

Being the tinkerer you are Megadan any warranty on the RE would likely be void.

Shhhh. Nobody has to know...

[XLsior]

Sg400 @7:10

[franque]

Dan, I'm sure you know, but S&S is making parts for the 650, so the HP advantage can be easily increased. For my money, I'd go with the 650, even with the increased cost, because unless the SG400 is a bit hit, since the motor isn't otherwise being imported (to the best of my knowledge), I could easily see it becoming an orphaned model in not too many years, because as you stated earlier, it is comfortably in the same price range as many Japanese models.

The market is especially weird now, but I highly doubt the SG400 will be a rousing success; they're no longer competing with used bikes, price wise, and they're in a very competitive market where most people aren't looking at a potential DIY project.

I could be wrong, but I think the 650 will be around much longer.

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by franque

Dan, I'm sure you know, but S&S is making parts for the 650, so the HP advantage can be easily increased. For my money, I'd go with the 650, even with the increased cost, because unless the SG400 is a bit hit, since the motor isn't otherwise being imported (to the best of my knowledge), I could easily see it becoming an orphaned model in not too many years, because as you stated earlier, it is comfortably in the same price range as many Japanese models.

The market is especially weird now, but I highly doubt the SG400 will be a rousing success; they're no longer competing with used bikes, price wise, and they're in a very competitive market where most people aren't looking at a potential DIY project.

I could be wrong, but I think the 650 will be around much longer.

I think that you're underestimating demand for the SG400 a bit. The primary reason that it's being brought in is to satisfy the unmet demand from potential SG250 purchasers who are looking for that style of bike, but want something with more power and bigger ergonomics - which the SG400 does in spades, while keeping the weight down. The tubeless spoke wheels and the fact that the TC380 is liquid cooled, versus air/oil cooled are icing on the cake. The light weight, with good power thing is really important in a lot of peoples books, mine included. Like the RX3 before it, Zongshen has stepped into a segment that is currently not being served by the mainstream manufacturers - >250cc, sub 650cc cafe retro styled parallel twin bikes.

As far as support goes, CSC has demonstrated repeatedly their ability to support their bikes, which is the primary reason that I continue to buy motorcycles from them. That, and the fact that they ship the thing right to my doorstep; I never have to leave my house except to ride the bike, lol. After six plus years of CSC selling Chinese bikes, I don't see any danger of the bike being orphaned, and if that did come to pass, AliExpress and TaoBao are more than able to fill in the gap. You can damn near build an RX3/RX4 from all the spare parts that they have available on those sites. As far as repairs go, so far I've purchased three Zhongshen motorcycles - this will be the fourth, and the only issues I have had are crap wet cell batteries and a bad oil seal on my RX4's shift shaft. That's it. For reference, the wet cell batteries in my 2015 Versys and 1990 Gold Wing also went to crap, so I can't lay all the blame on poorly made Chinese batteries. This is the reason that I am now a Shorai Lithium Iron house, exclusively; I use them in all of my bikes now. I can let them sit forever, and when I do want to ride a bike, they are ready to go.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the RE 650's, as well as the Himalayan, but for the type of riding that I do (almost all street), I don't really need a low RPM tractor, and I'm very interested in seeing what Zongshen hath wrought in their new small parallel twin engine. Probably more so than I am in the SG400 itself. It's the main reason that I was disappointed when CSC opted not to bring in the RX3S. It will be even more interesting to see what the RX6 brings to the table, should CSC decide to give it a go - a Norton based parallel twin engine design, coupled with name brand components instead of the usual Chinese in house stuff that they usually put on their bikes.

When it comes to resale, I don't buy a bike for resale value - what's the purpose there? I want to ride the damn thing, not sell it. I'm not aware of anybody who makes money selling a motorcycle, apart from dealers. Having said that, I'm seeing folks selling plenty of RX3's, RX4's, and other CSC bikes that are are not having problems moving the bikes. And they are not losing their shirts either, unless they really need to sell(I'm thinking ChopperCharles' $1200, 600 mile RX3 here). There are still a lot of people out there who are curious about Chinese motorcycles and CSC, who may not be willing to pay MSRP, but will happily fork out twenty to forty percent less on a used one. Here again, my Japanese bikes offer a similar tale - in 2018 I picked up my Versys, with 4000 miles and about $1000 of GIVI addons, for $6100. Basically a forty percent hit to the previous owner's investment. How is that any different to someone selling a $4000 RX3 for $2500?

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. If you are afraid to buy a Chinese bike in 2021, especially one from CSC, you shouldn't be. Unless you are the type who absolutely, positively, must have a dealer to take it to, then yep, you should look elsewhere. Just be prepared to pay more for the privilege.

[wheelbender6]

I think the choice between the SG400 and RE650 is just personal preference. Both good bikes and a good value.

[Working_ZS]

Originally Posted by wheelbender6

I think the choice between the SG400 and RE650 is just personal preference. Both good bikes and a good value.

I agree, and believe me when I say that I am grateful that we have reached the point where we have the choice. Back in 2015, it was basically a Ninja 250, a Rebel 250, or a TU250 for small, low cost street bikes, and a Yamaha TW200 for off road. The RX3 really blew things open, proving to other manufacturers that there was a market for feature packed small ADV, street, and dual sport motorcycles; bikes that aren't bare bones beginner models, but full featured motorcycles in their own right. The fact that there are differing sales and support models that are flourishing is an added bonus, allowing everyone to get the bike that they want with the type of service and support that they are comfortable with.