No plans to import RX3S from CSC after initial eval. - Page 2

NzBrakelathes · 10-10-2018, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sqwert

CSC come across as a fine group? They treat us well. Between you and CSC I can honestly say best I've ever had for online motorcycle support.

Shop was closed

Chinese parts are never that hard to come by mostly, that is the draw back with selling exclusively a Chinese bike - MANY sellers selling many things
(correct parts or orders that can be another things tho!)

NzBrakelathes · 10-11-2018, 02:28 PM

Was looking at the RX4 yesterday and I know the engine can be modded to fit inside the RX3.

Was thinking if enough interest to look at making a NC450 kit for the RX3 seeing the RX3s or RX4 are not going to be sold in the USA?

EFI would need new ECU and throttle body and some minor fabrication but I believe mounts mostly up easily enough.
swing arm fitment area needs a little grind to reduce the width, top mount is on the back of the head so some mod there but the other area should be Ok etc.

calvarez · 10-12-2018, 05:27 PM

CSC seems to have some fine reviews from most people. But...my brother got into a huge issue with them, and maybe lawsuit, can't remember. The TT250 he bought had fake EPA/forest service certifications on the muffler. He insisted they make it legal or take it back.

pyoungbl · 10-13-2018, 10:32 AM

I do not recall seeing any forest service certification on the exhaust of the TT250 I bought last year.

Working_ZS · 10-13-2018, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calvarez

CSC seems to have some fine reviews from most people. But...my brother got into a huge issue with them, and maybe lawsuit, can't remember. The TT250 he bought had fake EPA/forest service certifications on the muffler. He insisted they make it legal or take it back.

Sounds like a misunderstanding to me. The TT250 does have a Federal Noise Emission Certification sticker, located on the right front frame, just behind the headstock. It's for muffler loudness (80 db @ 7600 RPM), which is set by the EPA; it doesn't have anything to do with forest service requirements, i.e. spark arrestors. There is no sticker on the muffler itself on my 2016.

If I remember correctly, it's the same sticker that they sent out to early RX3 purchasers as a federal recall, since the bikes were shipped without it.

fjmartin · 10-14-2018, 02:11 AM

I did a ton of research about forest service requirements and contacted both our states DNR (Dept of Natural Resources) and the USFS for clarification. I told them I had a stock CSC RX3 which was street legal from the factory and licensed for street use. The response from the USFS is below. I know you were talking about the TT250 but his response makes it clear that ANY street legal stock bike is OK on USFS lands.

"Joe

Sorry for the long delay answering your question, however I am the new Spark Arrester Program Lead and I did not start working with the forest service until this month.

To try and answer your question, if your bike’s exhaust system is stock you are good. All OHVs sold in the states must meet Spark Arrestor requirements set forth by 36 CFR 261.52. If they are sold in the US they are and must be certified here in San Dimas, CA. Also you should not need to provide certification of your bike’s SA being present, there could be an exception but I am not sure or aware of an example. If you were to modify or remove your SA, and not replace it was a 36 CFR 261.52 approved SA, you could be liable in the event you caused a fire.

So I believe as long as your motorcycle is stock, you’re just fine to ride. Get out there and enjoy those FS and state lands, I know I do."

Essayons · 10-14-2018, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Was looking at the RX4 yesterday and I know the engine can be modded to fit inside the RX3.

Was thinking if enough interest to look at making a NC450 kit for the RX3 seeing the RX3s or RX4 are not going to be sold in the USA?

EFI would need new ECU and throttle body and some minor fabrication but I believe mounts mostly up easily enough.
swing arm fitment area needs a little grind to reduce the width, top mount is on the back of the head so some mod there but the other area should be Ok etc.

The kit would be a great option in my opinion. Specially for those who own the RX3 but don't want to spend the cash on a RX4.

sqwert · 10-15-2018, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rd1959

That CFMoto 400GT in the video is exactly what I've been wanting.

Yup!

sqwert · 10-15-2018, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NzBrakelathes

Shop was closed

Chinese parts are never that hard to come by mostly, that is the draw back with selling exclusively a Chinese bike - MANY sellers selling many things
(correct parts or orders that can be another things tho!)

Most sellers have similar problems:

A) low communication skills in English;
B) lies;
C) slow service;
D) lies;
E) parts pictured/described not parts shipped;
F) lies;
G) nothing ever shipped;
H) lies;
I) unable to handle problems due to poor language skills;
J) more lies.

So far, you and CSC haven't had any such problems.

Biker_Andy · 10-15-2018, 08:23 PM

The RX4 will be sold by CSC in spring of 2019. Its just the RX3S that has ergonomics too small for USA riders.

NzBrakelathes · 10-16-2018, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Biker_Andy

The RX4 will be sold by CSC in spring of 2019. Its just the RX3S that has ergonomics too small for USA riders.

What seat did they use?!

calvarez · 10-17-2018, 03:24 PM

For those who were asking about the muffler issue, this is what he originally posted on another bike forum. In the end, CSC said he was right and refunded him, taking the bike back. After he filed a lawsuit.

The CSC TT250 China bike. Right away I noticed that it didn't have the usual EPA and noise approval stamping on the muffler, I thought it was a requirement but figured maybe there was some kind of exception so I kinda blew it off but it stayed in my head. I posted about it on the Chinariders forum and every reply has stated that theirs aren't labeled either-there are many different Chinese bikes & quads. Everyone on there says I'm smoking crack and it's not really a requirement just something that's done. Many also stated that they've never seen an OE muffler with a stamp on any bike where I've never seen one without, which is why this one drew my attention. I called CSC and the guy confirmed that they have done all the tests and been given EPA and CARB approval (California Air Resources Board) and says that the stamp and label don't have to be on there, it just has to be compliant.

After some research it appears that the Feds have no exceptions, any production bike destined for street use (and maybe off-road use too) must have a compliance stamped muffler as well as a compliance sticker on the bike's frame unless it's for export only or competition use only. Furthermore Ca., and maybe other states, have a state law saying that no production motorcycle can be on the road without these labels and that doing so earns you a citation. To clear the citation the bike must be made compliant as well as paying the penalty.

The chances of me getting busted for this is slim to none, but if I did there would be no way to make it compliant unless the manufacturer supplied me a frame sticker and a stamped muffler which they don't currently have. If this gets out and the importers get hit with penalties and compliance requirements I assume they'll just close their doors cuz it would be really expensive to fix this mistake. So I'm thinking that the smart move would be to demand a refund and return the bike before the potential of them getting busted and closing shop happens.

Thoughts?

pyoungbl · 10-17-2018, 04:03 PM

Calvarez, I just took a look at my 2014 Moto Guzzi with stock exhaust. There is a stamp but it only addresses compliance for noise. There is nothing about spark arrestor or off road use. At the same time I took a look at my RX3 and don't see anything stamped on the muffler (I did not take the heat shield off) but the headstock does certify that the motorcycle meets the noise standards. In the case we are talking about, it seems that CSC might have decided that it was just simpler and smarter to take the bike back to be done with the problem. They are a small company and need all the good will they can get. Going to court, even if you 'win', is counter productive. Heck, we are talking about a $2100 bike. You'd spend much of that in legal fees alone...just not worth going through all that.

Peter Y.

Sullybiker · 10-17-2018, 06:50 PM

I remember those posts about the muffler and my opinion is that it was all very strange. 'After some research' is all well and good, but where are the sources? It's all speculative.

Now the other consideration is that there is evidence in this thread apparently from the responsible body which suggests somebody is wrong.

calvarez · 10-18-2018, 02:54 PM

I have no horse in this race, I will never buy a TT250, and clearly already have an RX3 so I really just don't care. I also am not going to assume my brother is right. If you want to nitpick the one post, of course you can find holes. This turned into a four page thread with people who have been riding all their lives, and he also got an opinion from a paralegal (no not a lawyer). My brother is a mechanic and once had a job replacing parts on an entire container of generators that all had fake US approvals on them. It's pretty common really, not his first time seeing it, which is why he checked all the certifications.

So do what you want with that info, I'm not interested in arguing about it and really don't even have a strong opinion on it. Personally I'd say screw the EPA and have no problem with an illegal muffler.

10-14-2018, 02:11 AM	#21
fjmartin Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: Redmond, WA. Posts: 534	I did a ton of research about forest service requirements and contacted both our states DNR (Dept of Natural Resources) and the USFS for clarification. I told them I had a stock CSC RX3 which was street legal from the factory and licensed for street use. The response from the USFS is below. I know you were talking about the TT250 but his response makes it clear that ANY street legal stock bike is OK on USFS lands. "Joe Sorry for the long delay answering your question, however I am the new Spark Arrester Program Lead and I did not start working with the forest service until this month. To try and answer your question, if your bike’s exhaust system is stock you are good. All OHVs sold in the states must meet Spark Arrestor requirements set forth by 36 CFR 261.52. If they are sold in the US they are and must be certified here in San Dimas, CA. Also you should not need to provide certification of your bike’s SA being present, there could be an exception but I am not sure or aware of an example. If you were to modify or remove your SA, and not replace it was a 36 CFR 261.52 approved SA, you could be liable in the event you caused a fire. So I believe as long as your motorcycle is stock, you’re just fine to ride. Get out there and enjoy those FS and state lands, I know I do." __________________ 2017 BMW F800GS Adventure
	1

10-15-2018, 08:23 PM	#25
Biker_Andy Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 347	The RX4 will be sold by CSC in spring of 2019. Its just the RX3S that has ergonomics too small for USA riders. __________________ Electrician & Electronics Tech 2014 Honda CB500XA 2016 CSC TT250 1976 Honda CJ360T 2022 Honda Navi
	1

10-11-2018, 02:28 PM	#17
NzBrakelathes Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Hell Posts: 2,408	Was looking at the RX4 yesterday and I know the engine can be modded to fit inside the RX3. Was thinking if enough interest to look at making a NC450 kit for the RX3 seeing the RX3s or RX4 are not going to be sold in the USA? EFI would need new ECU and throttle body and some minor fabrication but I believe mounts mostly up easily enough. swing arm fitment area needs a little grind to reduce the width, top mount is on the back of the head so some mod there but the other area should be Ok etc.
	2

10-12-2018, 05:27 PM	#18
calvarez Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 334	CSC seems to have some fine reviews from most people. But...my brother got into a huge issue with them, and maybe lawsuit, can't remember. The TT250 he bought had fake EPA/forest service certifications on the muffler. He insisted they make it legal or take it back.
	0

10-13-2018, 10:32 AM	#19
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	I do not recall seeing any forest service certification on the exhaust of the TT250 I bought last year.
	0

10-17-2018, 03:24 PM	#27
calvarez Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 334	For those who were asking about the muffler issue, this is what he originally posted on another bike forum. In the end, CSC said he was right and refunded him, taking the bike back. After he filed a lawsuit. The CSC TT250 China bike. Right away I noticed that it didn't have the usual EPA and noise approval stamping on the muffler, I thought it was a requirement but figured maybe there was some kind of exception so I kinda blew it off but it stayed in my head. I posted about it on the Chinariders forum and every reply has stated that theirs aren't labeled either-there are many different Chinese bikes & quads. Everyone on there says I'm smoking crack and it's not really a requirement just something that's done. Many also stated that they've never seen an OE muffler with a stamp on any bike where I've never seen one without, which is why this one drew my attention. I called CSC and the guy confirmed that they have done all the tests and been given EPA and CARB approval (California Air Resources Board) and says that the stamp and label don't have to be on there, it just has to be compliant. After some research it appears that the Feds have no exceptions, any production bike destined for street use (and maybe off-road use too) must have a compliance stamped muffler as well as a compliance sticker on the bike's frame unless it's for export only or competition use only. Furthermore Ca., and maybe other states, have a state law saying that no production motorcycle can be on the road without these labels and that doing so earns you a citation. To clear the citation the bike must be made compliant as well as paying the penalty. The chances of me getting busted for this is slim to none, but if I did there would be no way to make it compliant unless the manufacturer supplied me a frame sticker and a stamped muffler which they don't currently have. If this gets out and the importers get hit with penalties and compliance requirements I assume they'll just close their doors cuz it would be really expensive to fix this mistake. So I'm thinking that the smart move would be to demand a refund and return the bike before the potential of them getting busted and closing shop happens. Thoughts?
	0

10-17-2018, 04:03 PM	#28
pyoungbl Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Portsmouth, Virginia, USA Posts: 632	Calvarez, I just took a look at my 2014 Moto Guzzi with stock exhaust. There is a stamp but it only addresses compliance for noise. There is nothing about spark arrestor or off road use. At the same time I took a look at my RX3 and don't see anything stamped on the muffler (I did not take the heat shield off) but the headstock does certify that the motorcycle meets the noise standards. In the case we are talking about, it seems that CSC might have decided that it was just simpler and smarter to take the bike back to be done with the problem. They are a small company and need all the good will they can get. Going to court, even if you 'win', is counter productive. Heck, we are talking about a $2100 bike. You'd spend much of that in legal fees alone...just not worth going through all that. Peter Y.
	0

10-17-2018, 06:50 PM	#29
Sullybiker Join Date: Dec 2016 Location: Western PA Posts: 363	I remember those posts about the muffler and my opinion is that it was all very strange. 'After some research' is all well and good, but where are the sources? It's all speculative. Now the other consideration is that there is evidence in this thread apparently from the responsible body which suggests somebody is wrong.
	1

10-18-2018, 02:54 PM	#30
calvarez Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: Peoria, AZ Posts: 334	I have no horse in this race, I will never buy a TT250, and clearly already have an RX3 so I really just don't care. I also am not going to assume my brother is right. If you want to nitpick the one post, of course you can find holes. This turned into a four page thread with people who have been riding all their lives, and he also got an opinion from a paralegal (no not a lawyer). My brother is a mechanic and once had a job replacing parts on an entire container of generators that all had fake US approvals on them. It's pretty common really, not his first time seeing it, which is why he checked all the certifications. So do what you want with that info, I'm not interested in arguing about it and really don't even have a strong opinion on it. Personally I'd say screw the EPA and have no problem with an illegal muffler.
	0