New Hawk, new adventures.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by brianjmt

Megadan, Man you are complicating things for me and I am about to start ordering parts probably next week. LOL Your best guess on one of those fast ace shocks for a brozz? I am not going to be doing jumps and really tough offroad but i plan on tearing up the twisties. I like the current brozz seat height dont really want to f that up because it is perfect for me or at least the one I sat on. Not much on here for brozz specific bikes and i was sorta under the assumption they were almost the same or close enough stuff would interchange. Glad I waited on ordering you dont know how close I have been to going all in on getting parts to start shipping for when I get the bike. But every visit here or allexipress is more $$$$. But in a good way.

Before ordering a shock I would suggest taking the time to remove the original one and measure it. If I had to guess, the Brozz uses around a 300mm shock, but the top mount may be in a slightly different position than it is on a Hawk and could be longer or shorter because of that. Due to the geometry of the rear suspension a small change in length on the shock can make a substantial difference in ride height. Take my Hawk, a 5mm longer shock (325mm vs 320mm) lifted the back of the bike a bit more than half an inch.

As far as the two Fast Ace shocks I linked, both are the same length at 280mm. The first one would require removal or serious modification to the airbox due to the reservoir, but comes with the benefit of full adjustability that will likely actually function properly. The second shock will also work just fine, but only has rebound and preload adjustment (that will also likely function properly). Both shocks are designed more for off road performance which is why they have a longer shock to provide more wheel travel.

In the case of my Hawk, with the Brozz swing arm, if I used a 280mm shock I would be looking at lowering the bike about 1.5 inches out back as well as picking up a lot more wheel travel.

The other shocks out there like the one I have do work just fine, but the adjustment is very limited. The advantage is that they come in a variety of lengths so you can closely match to what you have.

[Megadan]

Full oil change with the oil cooler. The "It works, but slightly messy" method that I utilized tonight will be my go-to method with my planned longer change intervals of 1000 miles. It is a little more involved time wise than just draining the oil and topping it off, but it does ensure that a majority of the old oil is out of the entire system.

I will also note that the center stand made this a lot easier to do, so having the bike level and upright really helped.

Step 1. Remove the drain bolt from the block and drain the sump and leave it out.

Step 2. Undo the fitting for the line from the sump to the oil cooler at the oil cooler end. This allows the line to drain back into the sump and thus into the oil pan beneath. This also facilitates unscrewing the oil filter screen housing to clean said screen.

Step 3. Remove the banjo bolt for the feed line to the oil pump at the block fitting and hang it over your oil drain pan. This will allow the line to drain.

Step 4. Install the drain plug bolt back into the block once all of the oil has drained.

Step 5. This required finding a fitting that I sourced from a local speed shop. It is an M12 metric O-ring to 3/8" hose barb adapter. I screwed this into the oil cooler where the sump banjo bolt was removed. I then pushed the end of the 3/8" hose for my oil transfer pump (Link to something similar: https://www.amazon.com/Performance-T...e%2C177&sr=1-5 ) on to the barb end and secured with a small hose clamp.

From there I just pumped oil into the cooler, forcing oil out of it and down the disconnected line to the pump and let it drain into the oil pan below until it started to come out clean and then let it finish running out the line until it was done dripping.

Step 6: Reinstall the line to the pump on the block fitting, and then set the bike on the side stand. I removed the barb fitting and then slowly used the pump and hose to add oil to the cooler in order to prime the line to the pump. I stopped once the oil no longer went down in the cooler and then made a little mess as it overflowed a bit (oops). I then reinstalled the line from the sump at the oil cooler end and placed the bike back up on the center stand.

Step 7: the obvious step, filled the sump.

This is where the big oil cooler and the lines come into play as far as capacity. I already have the cooler full, and the line to the pump primed. I filled the oil to the top of the sight glass, what should be too full. I then started it, let it run for a few minutes, shut it off, let it sit a few more minutes to drain, and voila, no oil in the sight glass when vertical. If I tilted the bike to the right a bit it would show, so it wasn't empty, but it definitely shows just how much oil those lines to and from the oil cooler hold. Topped it off, and done.

By far the most complicated oil change I have ever done lol.

As far as the coolers functionality, it definitely made a difference. This oil had about 600 miles on it, and while dark enough to obviously not be new, it was not as dark as the oil was at about 400 miles (oil from second oil change during break in) before I installed the cooler. So, yes, the oil life is definitely extended.

As a side note. I am glad I was able to find the Rotella T6 in 15w-40. I never liked the 5w40 T6 because of how clattery the engine was on a cold start thanks to how thin it was. The 15w40 T6 is perfect for this engine. It still flows much easier than the T4 15w-40, but still thick enough to keep the noise down, and the engine runs much smoother, and the gear shifts are smoother as well. This will be my oil of choice from now on with this bike.

[Megadan]

Some side notes of other things during my major maintenance shenanigans.

The chain tensioner I added to the bike is essentially shot. The roller was definitely worn, but what makes it useless is the arm itself that holds the roller and adds tension. It wore the edges down where the pivot is located and was starting to go cockeyed. This is entirely due to the distance between the roller and where its shaft connects adding a lot of angular load to the arm. If I were to do it again, I would consider flipping the installation around to get the arm closer to the roller.

Valve adjustment: Intake was fine, and the exhaust was within spec though just barely. I set them at .06mm intake and .07mm exhaust. I like these specs as they are tight enough to keep the valve clatter to a minimum, but are not at minimum spec. either, thus allowing a little more leeway for service intervals (roughly 1000 miles between checks).

One thing worth doing is to periodically check the grease on the swing arm pivot and shock bolts, especially if you ride on dirt. After 1000 miles the lower shock bolt and spacers were gritty and the grease was almost solid - the upper was fine. The swing arm pivot was also getting dry enough that a tiny bit of surface rust formed on the pivot bolt in a couple of spots. I cleaned everything up and then re-greased it. Do not neglect these areas of your bike if you want a long happy life out of it.

Installing a zerk on the swing arm is definitely a worth while thing to do, and will be something done to the Brozz swing arm before it is installed.

I also checked the steering stem bearings/grease, and they were fine. My Fork oil was pretty nasty, so I drained it and used the last of my current quart bottle to add fresh fluid. Seals were fine, but I did use my seal cleaning tool and found a little bit of grime in them.

I also completely removed the chain and gave it a very very thorough cleaning with a brush and some kerosene. This is probably the cleanest the chain has ever been lol. I then sprayed it with my favorite Pro Honda white graphite chain lube, let it dry, and wiped off the excess. All of this is so much easier to do with the chain off it is almost comical. Set my chain tension to 40mm of slack at full droop, which is almost spot on perfect to meet the loaded tension spec of 15mm.

I went over all of the motor mount bolts, and found the upper rear mount plate bolts a bit loose. I have always had an issue with these guys, even on my last Hawk. I installed some serrated flange nylock nuts in place of the originals. All the rest of the bolts were still tight.

With both wheels off I decided to clean the heck out of them. WD40 and a shop towel is amazing for getting off brake dust from the rims and the spokes. Then following it up with a wash of the rims to keep dust/dirt from sticking to them (left the spokes alone for rust prevention reasons) Checked the wheel trueness and checked/tightened all of my spokes.

I also cleaned the brake rotors with a green scotch brite and some brake cleaner, and them removed the brake pads, cleaned the calipers and all the other hardware then cleaned and re-greased the slide pins. Brakes now work better than ever.

I also went over all of the wiring and connectors to check for any wear from rubbing or corrosion. Found nothing, which makes me a happy camper.

With all of this said and done, it was a full weekend, but now the bike is ready for the rest of the year and beyond.

Yes, I am this obsessive about maintenance with all of my bikes.

[OneLeggedRider]

Now Dan, the idea of a partial oil change even makes me cringe, and I don't know enough about the cooler to know if the lines would need to be primed after. But what about changing a quart of the capacity every 500 miles? Certainly seems like alot less hassle.

When I got my '74 K20 it incorporated the constant loss oiling system (which has since been remedied) and because there was always some fresh oil going in it didn't look too bad at the 3000 mile intervals. Just a thought, and I wonder how Jerry handles oil changes with 2 coolers.

[China Rider 27]

That is some impressive maintenance! This winter you should do a "maintenance resource guide" sticky! I saw other day Rotella came out with a full synthetic T6 15W-40 they say for reduced oil burning.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Now Dan, the idea of a partial oil change even makes me cringe, and I don't know enough about the cooler to know if the lines would need to be primed after. But what about changing a quart of the capacity every 500 miles? Certainly seems like alot less hassle.

When I got my '74 K20 it incorporated the constant loss oiling system (which has since been remedied) and because there was always some fresh oil going in it didn't look too bad at the 3000 mile intervals. Just a thought, and I wonder how Jerry handles oil changes with 2 coolers.

The oil coolers are suction based, so you need to prime the system.

As for the partial oil change. Normally I wouldn't bother going to these lengths, but seeing as with the cooler installed it makes up about a third of the total oil capacity I care a bit more.

Originally Posted by China Rider 27

That is some impressive maintenance! This winter you should do a "maintenance resource guide" sticky! I saw other day Rotella came out with a full synthetic T6 15W-40 they say for reduced oil burning.

I go over all of my bikes like this once a year. Not sure if a sticky is warranted, but I could always add something to the resource guide.

The oil burning with 5w40 T6 doesn't surprise me with how thin it is. That was the main reason I never touched it. Probably not an issue with these little motors, but it does make them more noisy, which I don't like.

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by OneLeggedRider

Now Dan, the idea of a partial oil change even makes me cringe, and I don't know enough about the cooler to know if the lines would need to be primed after. But what about changing a quart of the capacity every 500 miles? Certainly seems like alot less hassle.

When I got my '74 K20 it incorporated the constant loss oiling system (which has since been remedied) and because there was always some fresh oil going in it didn't look too bad at the 3000 mile intervals. Just a thought, and I wonder how Jerry handles oil changes with 2 coolers.

I've done it a couple of ways just to experiment and find out which is the best way. First time I did it similar to the way Dan just explained. The last time I drained the oil from the bottom plug. Once that oil had drained I switched the kill switch on and cranked the engine until it sucked all the oil out of the coolers. More oil did come out so I know it was sucking it out. I'm sure there was some left in the cooler but not enough to worry about. I then disconnect the line that the filter screen is on to pull and clean the screen which btw was clean as can be. I may skip this step on the next oil change and do this like every other oil change. After reconnecting the lines I then replace the oil drain plug and fill with 1 quart of oil. With the kill switch still on I'll crank it to prime the cooler. The 1st time I tried this method I was leery on this method so I pulled the hoses from each cooler and tried to top off each cooler. Both were full so the method works on my setup anyway. So after starting I check the oil level and usually add about 4 oz. more oil to bring the oil level just above half glass. I'm not telling everyone this is the way to do. This what has worked for me and as you can see I took precautions to make sure that this method worked.

Like Dan stated. The center stand makes the oil change much easier. Bike is level and no jack stuck in the way of the oil drain pan.

With the oil cooler the life span is much longer between oil changes. Before the oil cooler @ 500 miles the oil would be almost jet black. After installing the oil cooler I changed the oil at 1000 miles and still be a nice golden brown. So the next oil change I pushed it to 1200 miles. Still same golden brown. Now I know this will make Dan and a few others cringe but I have about 1500 miles on the oil and is still a golden brown but I am scheduling an oil change soon even though it probably doesn't need one. Since I installed the dual coolers my oil temps have never gone over 200*. Highest I seen was 189*. This was on a 98* day with the heat index of 106*. Yeah, too dang hot to ride. I do use Quicksilver 15W50 full synthetic Motorcycle oil so not to worried about oil break down. My thinking is if my full size truck is designed for 9000 to 10000 mile oil change intervals I'm sure the little china bike engine will be okay if I push it to 2000 miles.

[China Rider 27]

By what means are you getting the oil temps?

[JerryHawk250]

Originally Posted by China Rider 27

By what means are you getting the oil temps?

From this temperature/volt meter I installed. Link to thread. http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=22409

[Ariel Red Hunter]

Originally Posted by Megadan

The oil coolers are suction based, so you need to prime the system.

As for the partial oil change. Normally I wouldn't bother going to these lengths, but seeing as with the cooler installed it makes up about a third of the total oil capacity I care a bit more.



I go over all of my bikes like this once a year. Not sure if a sticky is warranted, but I could always add something to the resource guide.

The oil burning with 5w40 T6 doesn't surprise me with how thin it is. That was the main reason I never touched it. Probably not an issue with these little motors, but it does make them more noisy, which I don't like.

This is/was a diesel truck engine oil. Cold blooded engines that are liquid cooled. Absolutely necessary to have such thin oil in order to get adequate lubrication to the over-head gear, which includes fuel injectors on all but one brand of over the road engine. Diesels are normally slow to warm up, because they are constant pressure engines instead of constant temperature engines like the one in your car. BUT, a heavier oil is indicated for air-cooled engines which run at a higher temperature...ARH

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

I've done it a couple of ways just to experiment and find out which is the best way. First time I did it similar to the way Dan just explained. The last time I drained the oil from the bottom plug. Once that oil had drained I switched the kill switch on and cranked the engine until it sucked all the oil out of the coolers. More oil did come out so I know it was sucking it out. I'm sure there was some left in the cooler but not enough to worry about. I then disconnect the line that the filter screen is on to pull and clean the screen which btw was clean as can be. I may skip this step on the next oil change and do this like every other oil change. After reconnecting the lines I then replace the oil drain plug and fill with 1 quart of oil. With the kill switch still on I'll crank it to prime the cooler. The 1st time I tried this method I was leery on this method so I pulled the hoses from each cooler and tried to top off each cooler. Both were full so the method works on my setup anyway. So after starting I check the oil level and usually add about 4 oz. more oil to bring the oil level just above half glass. I'm not telling everyone this is the way to do. This what has worked for me and as you can see I took precautions to make sure that this method worked.

Like Dan stated. The center stand makes the oil change much easier. Bike is level and no jack stuck in the way of the oil drain pan.

With the oil cooler the life span is much longer between oil changes. Before the oil cooler @ 500 miles the oil would be almost jet black. After installing the oil cooler I changed the oil at 1000 miles and still be a nice golden brown. So the next oil change I pushed it to 1200 miles. Still same golden brown. Now I know this will make Dan and a few others cringe but I have about 1500 miles on the oil and is still a golden brown but I am scheduling an oil change soon even though it probably doesn't need one. Since I installed the dual coolers my oil temps have never gone over 200*. Highest I seen was 189*. This was on a 98* day with the heat index of 106*. Yeah, too dang hot to ride. I do use Quicksilver 15W50 full synthetic Motorcycle oil so not to worried about oil break down. My thinking is if my full size truck is designed for 9000 to 10000 mile oil change intervals I'm sure the little china bike engine will be okay if I push it to 2000 miles.

The second method you did is something I had considered. If I were to try this I would do two things differently. First, definitely on a hot oil change so the oil would flow more freely. I did mine cold since I was also doing the valves at the same time. I just let it drain for a very long time. Second, I would crank it over as you did and then sit it on the side stand for a few minutes to let the head drain down, then bavk on the center stand. Maybe not necessary, but it would help get as much out as possible.

The 1500 mile interval doesn't make me cringe at all. I use shorter intervals because how my bike is used is pretty rough on the oil. Short trips mixed with lots of hard highway runs. I destroy the oil pretty quick. I expect this 15w40 T6 to last every bit of 1000 miles, and possibly longer.

[JerryHawk250]

I always warm he engine up before changing the oil. I just forgot to mention that. lol

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Ariel Red Hunter

This is/was a diesel truck engine oil. Cold blooded engines that are liquid cooled. Absolutely necessary to have such thin oil in order to get adequate lubrication to the over-head gear, which includes fuel injectors on all but one brand of over the road engine. Diesels are normally slow to warm up, because they are constant pressure engines instead of constant temperature engines like the one in your car. BUT, a heavier oil is indicated for air-cooled engines which run at a higher temperature...ARH

I cut my chops in a diesel shop. Very familiar with them. Most of the modern engines use much thinner oil because of their OHC heads, as you mentioned. The older cummins ohv and detroit 4 strokes use pretty heavy oils.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by JerryHawk250

I always warm he engine up before changing the oil. I just forgot to mention that. lol

I figured, and I normally do as well. My one exception is if the bike has been sitting for a couple of days. By that point most of the oil has drained down to the sump.

[kingofqueenz]

SO many varying schools of thought around changing oil warm or cold..

I changed it cold after the bike sat for 4 days