Teikei Carb?

[ajiribarren]

Hi guys, I was wondering, has anybody here tuned or jetted a Teikei Carb? Apparently is the one installed on my bike. I searched the forum with no luck. :(

Maybe is a stupid question, but wich one in the next phoographs migh be the fuel/air mixture screw? :oops:

Right side
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/ajiribarren/BikeCarb001.jpg
Left side
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/ajiribarren/BikeCarb004.jpg

[BillR]

Sorry, no experience with this one.

From experience with other varities of carbs:
I bet ya' the screw is under that little metal cap on the right side.
That way you "can't" get to it and make any nasty adjustments that would mess up the emissions; oh, and make it run better too :twisted:

Edit: :oops: Oops, probably not. I looked a little more and found this site: :oops:
http://partsfinder.onlinemicrofiche.com/xtremepowersports/Yamaha_OEM/YamahaDB.asp?Type=13&A=265&B=9http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Teikei_Carburetors_and_Parts_C784.cfm
Exploded views of the TeiKei carbs. There doesn't appear to be a screw under that cap after all.

I did a Google search and saw a lot of posts regarding this brand carb being used on Yamaha models.
Parts and jets were available at:
http://www.motorcyclecarbs.com/Teikei_Carburetors_and_Parts_C784.cfm

Good luck,
Bill

[warrior91]

brass screw bottom left of second pic
edit: behind throttle linkage...

[ajiribarren]

brass screw bottom left of second pic
edit: behind throttle linkage...

Thanks warrior91!

One more question.... I was in the garage a few minutes ago and noticed something weird after I read some posts on thumpertalk. I've never touched the choke lever on this bike. And now after close inspection it happens that the lever is fully on! All the time. Without any choke the bike just dies on idle and responds really badly with throttle! It came this way from the dealer!

Is this bad for the engine right? How can I correct this? With the fuel/air mixture screw? Needle position? Do I def need to change jets? :?

[phil]

warrior is right thats it my zongshens use that carb and the gy scooters i think its a walbro copy but im not sure all i do know is if that diaphram in the top gets a whole you need a new carb and it hardly wont run

[ejcycles]

Hi ajiribarren

It's really strange seeing a Teikei Carburetor {TK}.

Yamaha used them for a while in the 1980's but I haven't seen one on a bike since then. Yamaha used Teikei on the XJ {Maxim} and on the BW {Big Wheel} series of motorcycles. I have a Big Wheel 200, bought a DG Pipe for it but never used it because I couldn't find main jets for it at all 8 yrs. ago, BillR thanks for that post.

It sounds like the pilot jet is plugged. Remove it and soak it in carburetor cleaner. Do Not stick anything through it {like a drill bit} you could mess up it's size. A very fine piece of wire may be ok... but don't force it.

[ajiribarren]

Well guys, not so much luck today! :(

I took apart the carb. Dropped the needle first two positions (closest to the needle), I believe it made it extremely rich since the exhaust was getting pretty hot and with signs of some carbon residues.

Then put the c-clip in the 4th position, still a little carbon residues, but engine not getting as hot as before.

Took out both jets, a very small one I believe is the pilot jet and a big one (about an inch long) that should be the main jet. The small one I used a flat head screw, for the big one a 10 mm socket. Soaked them for about an hour in Carb cleaner, then reassembled everything, spraying carb cleaner inside and putting everything back together in the bike.

Results? I can`t still make it idle without choke!! :evil:

I tried adjusting the mixture screw in EVERY single position, none seemed to make any difference. Adjusting the idle screw let me to some point turn off the choke, but the bike behaved pretty erratic.

Help?

I think I might take it to the dealer, but I'm not getting my hopes on that, since probably will tell me that the bike is running fine.

Ideas? how much for an aftermarket carb? anyone knows?

Thanks guys so much for your help.

P.S. Lucky me, I'm positive I lost the little spring that goes on top of the needle. Never even saw it when I dissasembled the needle part. The retainer is a little white plastic thing, not a clip, and when trying to release it, it flew away! :oops: Oh well....

[phil]

if your talking about the spring that sets on top under the black cap i think the cap has 4 screws thats important what size bike does this go on & who made it
as for a replacement carb i would use one just like this but i may be the only person who likes it they just work very effecient and little trouble :lol:

[ajiribarren]

if your talking about the spring that sets on top under the black cap i think the cap has 4 screws thats important what size bike does this go on & who made it
as for a replacement carb i would use one just like this but i may be the only person who likes it they just work very effecient and little trouble :lol:

Hi Phil, the spring I lost is a very small one. Is not the large one that goes between the black cap and the rubber diaphragm.

I BELIEVE i lost it, because the needle now has a free play up and down that wasn't there before.

My bike is a Lifan 250GY-7, with the 172mm-2 engine. I was fooling around with the carb since I installed and aftermarket exhaust and I fell the bike kind of feels choked up, like it's not at its full potential. Its very hard to reach 60 mph and the bike feels kinda slow and underpowered.

[warrior91]

Are you sure the choke is not backwards in operation to what you are used to??? :roll:


I'm guessing though ,you did actually visibly verify the function of the butterfly/choke lever.
It sounds to me like you are running it with the choke on...when the button is in off position.
And it runs great with the choke button in "on position".... but the butterfly is actually wide open(normal)

[ajiribarren]

Are you sure the choke is not backwards in operation to what you are used to??? :roll:


I'm guessing though ,you did actually visibly verify the function of the butterfly/choke lever.
It sounds to me like you are running it with the choke on...when the button is in off position.
And it runs great with the choke button in "on position".... but the butterfly is actually wide open(normal)

Humm.... nice question. The choke lever is on the handlebar. It's turned forward by default. If I turn it backward the bike dies.

Before this bike, I had a Hyosung. I used the choke to warm the bike, and after warm, I would kill the choke and the bike ran perfectly.

When I was fidling today with the carb, without the choke and with a high idle the bike felt more responsive but very temperamental. Maybe was my imagination, I dunno.

UPDATE!!! I definitively lost a spring!! I found this pic of a tekei carb that closely resembles mine

[http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/ajiribarren/TKtensmall.jpg

The good part is I found a very elegant solution. I replaced the spring with one of a mechanical pen that I cut in half :lol:

[phil]

i would like to help but i no longer have any resources at lifan and they didnt have a gy7 when i did dont know if they have now but the zongs use a similar carb maybe the same ill look tommorrow if you want me to to see if the 50 or 150 carb may have the spring if you want, i think lifan had a problem with the diagphram i have several with that busted :wink:

[ejcycles]

iribarren

The pen spring will be Ok. The needle only needs enough pressure to hold it down. I have done close to the same thing when working on carburetors that people have had their hands in before. I have a ton of assorted springs for this purpose.

"If you have the same choke set-up as in the picture."

The choke in the picture that you posted is an actual Enrichener. "Left bottom" of your picture, on the carburetor. If your carburetor is set up the same way unscrew the cap, move the cable on the handlebar. The plunger fully extended is "The Enrichener" fully closed "Choke Off". When the plunger is close to the cap the choke in fully open, or on.

[ajiribarren]

ajiribarren

The pen spring will be Ok. The needle only needs enough pressure to hold it down. I have done close to the same thing when working on carburetors that people have had their hands in before. I have a ton of assorted springs for this purpose.

"If you have the same choke set-up as in the picture."

The choke in the picture that you posted is an actual Enrichener. "Left bottom" of your picture, on the carburetor. If your carburetor is set up the same way unscrew the cap, move the cable on the handlebar. The plunger fully extended is "The Enrichener" fully closed "Choke Off". Wen the plunger is close to the cap the choke in fully open.

Ejcycles, exactly! I had to remove the choke from the carb yesterday in order to take the carb to a working table.

The wire is atached to a spring and some sort of a piston and needle (forgive my lack of mechanical terms). When the choke is "on" the cable retracts this piston an needle. When the the choke is off, the cable losens and the spring pushes the piston and needle into the carb.

Also, after reading some post in a Tw200 forum, I was wondering, why my main jet is so small? Those guy are using 130 and 132 main jets as replacement for a 126 main jet. My main jet is 114 :roll: I live in an altitude of aprox. 800 meters (2600 feet). Maybe my carb is tuned wrong, or not tuned at all?

I found a picture that closely resembles the bottom of my carb, and now I believe the brass screw in the side of the carb is nothing. Apparently to access the mixture screw I have to drill a cap.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/ajiribarren/TKonesmall1.jpg

[ejcycles]

ajiribarren

There would be a difference if the carburetors are made that much different. The Screw on the side of yours should be for idle/air mixture. Take a look, but be very careful if you do remove a plug from the bottom of yours.

The slide needle={needle jet}, slide, emulsion tube={jet needle}, main jet={high speed jet}, pilot jet={low speed or idle/air jet}, will all make a difference in the way the carburetor operates. Your altitude, temperature, humidity etc. will make a big difference too.

I haven't seen or heard of too much trouble with the TW200 here {Ohio, 1100 ft. above sea level}. I have a 1985 Big Wheel 200 that has the stock jetting/pipe on it. I can't say what the carburetor looks like right now cause it's been a while since I had it off and it's put away for the winter.

[ajiribarren]

ajiribarren

There would be a difference if the carburetors are made that much different. The Screw on the side of yours should be for idle/air mixture. Take a look, but be very careful if you do remove a plug from the bottom of yours.

The slide needle={needle jet}, slide, emulsion tube={jet needle}, main jet={high speed jet}, pilot jet={low speed or idle/air jet}, will all make a difference in the way the carburetor operates. Your altitude, temperature, humidity etc. will make a big difference too.

I haven't seen or heard of too much trouble with the TW200 here {Ohio, 1100 ft. above sea level}. I have a 1985 Big Wheel 200 that has the stock jetting/pipe on it. I can't say what the carburetor looks like right now cause it's been a while since I had it off and it's put away for the winter.

Thanks so much for the info. For what I recall, this carb in the picture looks exactly like mine, at least the needle part and the bottom part. I'm going to give a shot on slowly drilling that cap and see if theres a mixture screw there. In fact, is exactly the same as mine, but the throtle is only one cable as opposed to the two cable system in the TW, and hence it has a screw and spring on the throttle side to adjust the idle position

I'm kind of new to this, but for example I'm at a place at 2600 feet, humidity aprox. 70%, temperatures never below 70 F and rarely above 90 F. What could be a starter point for pilot/ main jets?

[ejcycles]

ajiribarren

Don't worry about the jetting just yet... lets get the bike running first.

[ajiribarren]

ajiribarren

Don't worry about the jetting just yet... lets get the bike running first.

Jeje :oops: Well, to be honest, the bike runs, but not without choke on, or not smoothly for that matter.

Took a better look at those TW carbs. They don't have the brass scre on the side of the carb, so there's another difference and then that brass screw must be a fuel screw.

So far I've tried this:

-Warming the bike
-Adjusting the idle screw so the bike doesn't die when I turn the choke off. The bike iddles very erratic and not as smooth as when the choke is on.
-Turned the screw all the way in (the screw is on the engine side of the carb, so its a fuel screw right?)
-Slowly turn the screw out 1/4 of a turn at a time, and hearing how it iddles for a few minutes, even give a little throtle and release it to see how it decelerates.

So far I've turned that damn screw at least five turns out and no improvement!!

Am I doing something wrong here?

Once again, thanks sooo much for your help and knowledge.

[ejcycles]

ajiribarren

If you have the pilot jet out and look through it can you see air... ooopps, mean light through it? If not, soak it again overnight and make sure the hole in it is clear, completely.

Then remove the Idle/Air adjustment screw, the emulsion tube & main jet. Then Blast carburetor cleaner through the screws hole, it should come out of the pilot hole, emulsion tube hole and a hole on the back of the carburetor. Repeat with every hole repeatedly except the emulsion tube hole. You should get a really good flow of cleaner out of every hole, if not keep it up until you do. The carburetor passages may be blocked w/shellac from fuel sitting in the carburetor If this does not work and you can't get a good flow through the holes you may need a carburetor

[Cal25]

How does the bike run with the choke "On"? Like Warrior91 said, it could be that the choke operates different than your used to. Wont be the first time that happened. There was one guy on here that cleaned the carb several times and even replaced the carb only to find out that the choke was on when he thought it was off.

[ajiribarren]

ajiribarren

If you have the pilot jet out and look through it can you see air... ooopps, mean light through it? If not, soak it again overnight and make sure the hole in it is clear, completely.

Then remove the Idle/Air adjustment screw, the emulsion tube & main jet. Then Blast carburetor cleaner through the screws hole, it should come out of the pilot hole, emulsion tube hole and a hole on the back of the carburetor. Repeat with every hole repeatedly except the emulsion tube hole. You should get a really good flow of cleaner out of every hole, if not keep it up until you do. The carburetor passages may be blocked w/shellac from fuel sitting in the carburetor If this does not work and you can't get a good flow through the holes you may need a carburetor

Ejcycles, when I had removed the pilot jet and main jets I could see light through them. The Pilot jet hole was really small though, I don't even recall seeing a number printed there so I can't even guess the size. The main jet is a 114.

I'm gonna follow your advice and dedicate saturday's afternoon to completely removing the carb again. One thing I didn't do was removing the fuel screw, gonna do that on saturday and spray carb cleaner through every single hole. I'm taking pics so you can see my actual setup.

Thanks!

[ajiribarren]

How does the bike run with the choke "On"? Like Warrior91 said, it could be that the choke operates different than your used to. Wont be the first time that happened. There was one guy on here that cleaned the carb several times and even replaced the carb only to find out that the choke was on when he thought it was off.

Cal25, the bike was setup from the dealer that way. Choke engaged.

With the choke engaged, the bike fires right up and warms smoothly. I don' have a tach But I'm estimating 1200-1500 R.P.M. If I kill the choke, the bike stutters for a second or two and dies.

If I turn the idle screw in (My throttle assembly is only one cable connected to the carb, throttle valve is spring loaded, and with a spring loaded screw to adjust butterfly opening) I can raise the RPM's to be able to run without choke.

Without choke and with the iddle adjusted, I can make the bike idle, but not as smoothly as before. Now the bike is jumpy, not smooth. Even If I give it gas past the 1/4 throttle range.

When I removed the carb, I verified the function of the choke. Is an enrichner as Ejcycles says. The choke mechanism in my bike is handle mounted. Consists of a lever dial, conected thru a wire to the carb. At the end of this wire inside the carb is a spring and a small piston that ends in some sort of a needle. When the choke is "on" or the enrichner is "on" for that matter, the cable pulls this piston out of the carb body. When is off, the piston and needle go back again into the carb body.

This is why I'm messing around with the carb, because without choke my bike runs very jumpy and erraticly.

[ejcycles]

ajiribarren

When you remove the pilot jet look at it with a magnifying glass, see if you can see a number that way. I'll wait to hear back from you to advise you from here.

[ajiribarren]

ajiribarren

When you remove the pilot jet look at it with a magnifying glass, see if you can see a number that way. I'll wait to hear back from you to advise you from here.

Guys, long time without posting, sorry about that! Work has kept me extremely busy and since my bike is just a weekend hobby I wasn't able to work on it as much as I wanted.

Took my carb apart tonight and looked at my jets. The Main is a 114, the Pilot is a 36. I can see through them just fine.

I tried changing the main jet to a 126 (the only one I could find). Is EXTREMELY rich now and exhaust gets pretty hot, so hot that the sticker on the side faded and at some point flames came out of the exhaust. The sparkplug is all black. Gonna have to get back to the 114 I guess. With the 126 the bike bogs down at full throttle. too much fuel and too little air??

I sprayed EVERYTHING with carb cleaner (Main jet hole, pilot jet hole, air' mixture hole, in fact every hole I could find). The cleaner got through every hole. Reassembled the carb, and still I can't get it to idle without choke.

Will I be needing a new carb? :x

Thanks guys for your input.

[ejcycles]

ajiribarren Wrote:
I was fooling around with the carb since I installed and aftermarket exhaust and I felt the bike kind of feels choked up, like it's not at its full potential.

Ok ajiribarren, I finally found this post again about the pipe. I completely forgot about it, until I read through all of the posts again. Now that we went through the cleaning {which May have been useless}, I know for a fact know you need a larger Pilot Jet.

The site that BillR listed Does Not have pilot jets. The site says that maybe some Mikuni pilot jets will work from the VM carburetors. A lot of the Mikuni Carburetors use the same pilot jet. I would actually to have the pilot jet in hand to match it to another jet.

Reason being, Example: A Mikuni 150 Main Jet and a Keihin 150 Main Jet are no where near the same center hole diameter. The Keihin 150 main jet hole diameter is a lot larger than the Mikuni 150 main jet. I have found this true with the pilot jets also.

So, your only cure is to find a larger Teikei Pilot Jet, OR find a machine shop or some place that has very small drill bits. Find the size that fits in your pilot jet. Then drill it out to the next size larger drill bit, and do this until the bike idles with your air mixture screw out 1.5-2.0 turns out. The only other option is to replace the stock exhaust or buy a carburetor that you can get different sized pilot jets for.

[SpudRider]

I am glad that Bruce is helping you to diagnose your carburetor; I am not very good at that task. However, I might be able to help you locate a new pilot jet.

If you live near a Yamaha motorcycle dealer you might want to see if they have a suitable pilot jet for your TK carburetor. Your motorcycle employs a TK MV30 carburetor, and the Yamaha TW200 uses the slightly smaller TK MV28 carburetor. Other Yamaha motorcycles also use TK carburetors and TK carburetor jets. You reported your carburetor uses a size 36 pilot jet.

Searching the internet I found the following information. You can use these part numbers to start your conversation with the people at the Yamaha shop. If they stock any of the following parts, compare them to your pilot jet.

Yamaha TT-R230 Pilot Jet #36, Yamaha part #1C6-14342-18-00
Yamaha SRX250T Pilot Jet #38, Yamaha part #43F-14342-19
Yamaha TW-200 Pilot Jet #31, Yamaha part #5LB-14342-65-00

I think that Yamaha part #1C6-14342-18-00 might be your best bet.

Don’t you just love the internet? :wink:

Spud :)

[ajiribarren]

Thanks guys for your replies!

Mikuni main jets fits, at least the two I have (132.5 and 126). But the Pilot jets don't :(

I bought a cheap carb kit for a Suzuki GN-125 to try different combinations of jets and see the results. Well, as I told before, with the main jets the results were disastrous at least. Here are some pics I took while putting back the original 114 jet.

Top view of the bottom of the carb
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/ajiribarren/TKCarb001.jpg

Main jet and Pilot jet installed
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/ajiribarren/TKCarb002.jpg

Teikei Pilot Jet 36 (left) and Mikuni Pilot jet, no number (right)
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee186/ajiribarren/TKCarb004.jpg

As you see, no possible fit!

Going to try a Yamaha Dealer, but won't get my hopes too high! Down here parts for bikes are scarse. I even think is easier to find another carb.

All this because I feel the bike is not running right. Won't idle without choke, and I feel the bike is not at it's full potential. With 19 claimed HP, the bike struggles to get to 60 mph, and feels pretty bogged down for a 250 cc. Heck, even 125 yamaha enduros have more of a get go than this bike!

[warrior91]

i can see the thread pitch is different...never mind physical length...Perhaps a new carb is the ticket...at least one that can be jetted correctly.