In stock
 

All three Templars are available right now- base, M, and X.
Prices have gone up as predicted by a couple hundred. X is still under, but just barely under $2000.

Checked the PSM site this morning:
X - $1949
M - $1749
Base - $1599

Will be interested to see what the prices do throughout the year, I'm planning on picking up an M or Base in October when my son gets his motorcycle permit

My son got his MCO and BOS yesterday, exactly one week after ordering. The crate is at the R&L terminal as of 4 days ago, scheduled for Tuesday delivery.

MCO does show "motorcycle", as requested. :tup:

I requested my MSO to say "motorcycle" too but instead received "off road motorcycle", supposedly they are sending another one out but I still haven't received the "motorcycle" mso for my 150 despite waiting almost two weeks now. PSM.

They sent me a Manufacturer Certificate of Origin (MCO) for three bikes now, and my son got one too.

What did they send you (What is an MSO) ?
Maybe ask them for a corrected Manufacturer Certificate of Origin in case they don't know what you are asking.

This is what it looks like, shows MCO at the top:

Attachment 31458

MCO = MSO different term for the same thing. Manufacturer's Statement of Origin.

Muffler cover cut mod
 

You can't remove the panel that covers the tailpipe without removing the luggage rack. EASY FIX

Once you remove the 8mm bolt that holds the seat on, you can't remove the right side cover because the front luggage rack mount goes through it. So cut it!

Here are the before and after pics. The bolt that holds the seat on holds this cover in place anyway, so this doesn't do anything except allow you to pull off the side cover (second 8mm bolt lower/forward) WITHOUT removing the luggage rack.

Note: the decal protection hasn't been removed yet, so you can see that unpeeled near the cut.

Before cut

Attachment 31471


After cut


Attachment 31472

Yup, did that mod to my side panels a while ago.
Left them alone when I first assembled because I wanted to pull the rear rack and loctite the bolts in place.
Makes a world of difference instead of fighting with the rack. Also made getting the seat on and off easier since there's less pressure on the seat bolts

You know what's weird? The tag "X7-CB250F" identifies our bikes on the handlebar but when you go to Alibaba and look at that exactly model being sold by Wuyi Zuma the frame is different at the engine cradle. It almost appears as if the Templar X has a frame that would fit the ZS174MN engine.


The Templar X engine is stamped "ZS172FMM-3A" but it is clearly a "ZS172FMM-5" because of the balance shaft.

We rejet the slow/pilot 40 to 42, but I don't have a 125 main (ordered). Also drilled the airscrew and set to 1.5 turns initial setting and shimmed the needle ~1mm. We will see how badly WOT is affected by leaving the 120 main jet in there. But not for at least a few hundred miles break-in.

The frame is redesigned somewhere between my 2022 and this 2024 frame. There are lots of differences like the clutch adjuster, and clutch cable routing in front of the cylinder, the starter relay mounts, the engine mounts (top and front look very different). There is even less room to get in to adjust the intake valve. The tail light wiring is zip tied to the left lower luggage rack mount (good) but the connectors need to be wrapped and then ziptied back.

And I noticed the glaring 172FMM-3A stamp as well. Now this is puzzling. This "3A" stamp was on the early 6 speed engine I bought, then sold. I thought they were just using up left side -3A case halves, but they still mark these -3A . Isn't it a "-5" ???:wtf:

I don't understand the way parts are freely cloned and crossmatched on Chinese products. It must be confusing for engineers and assemblers!

And yes, I do wonder how difficult it would be to put a liquid jacketed 298cc engine in there and mount radiators to the air louvre positions :)

They've wired it the exact same way as the Storm 150 DLX that I have.



I wonder if it's to get around import or emissions restrictions? That's the only thing I can think of.



I have a CB300RL that's on it's way to me to swap into the Templar, looking back I should have gotten a water cooled engine but then again I made the order before the bike showed up and I know that the 300RL is a direct swap. Maybe after I sell my ZRX1200R and the GSX1100G I have sitting in the garage I will get a water cooled bike off of Alibaba instead of paying the crazy Kayo/GPX prices.

Re: the Kayo/GPX prices, the GPX TSE250R and FSE250e and s models are about the only ones that are affordable anymore. Once you start looking at their 300cc models and up (both 2 and 4 stroke), you might as well just go ahead and buy a big 4 Japanese bike brand new. I’ve heard GPX owners say, “But dude, it’s half the price of an equivalent KTM….” and my response is, “But yeah, it’s pretty much the same price as a YZ125x, a DRZ400, or a DR650s…and most people will have to make payments on that kind of $ regardless, so why not just go with a Big 4 Japanese bike?"

FYI the spacing on the plastic radiator mounts is 130mm. So far I haven't found any radiators on Alibaba or Aliexpress that would directly bolt on but plenty of generic radiators that you could make work. Throwing this information out there because I plan on swapping a water-cooled engine into it a year from now. In July I should have my Zs175fmm(CB300RL) to swap in before that.


https://i.ibb.co/1Rp2MHP/1716702974736.jpg

Can anyone remind me where is the posts or thread describing how to disable the need to pull the brake (or foot pedal) to start the Templars?

I know someone mentioned it, but I can't find it.

Here is the way I did it. My first post here.
https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=33546

It's very common to either pull the brake, or the clutch to start the bike.
The Vader 150, can start without it, which sucks when you're in 1st gear, and forget to pull any.
It even turns over (though doesn't get spark) with the ignition switch set to 'off'.

Hey silly question-
I’ve lost the service manual for my 172fmm-3a and can’t remember the oil viscosity it called for.
I changed the oil and used some generic Rotella 15w-something and it shifts like garbage. Need to change it again before I ride it.

Most of these bikes need 10W40. If you are running an open exhaust and intake, and the bike is properly jetted (not lean), 10W30 might work as well, especially if you equip it with an oil cooler.

If you do, it'd be good to put 2x 12v pc case fans on the back side of the cooler, always on when the bike is running. That way it'll cool quickly after a highway run.
Side benefit, the fans also generate power to charge the battery, when going at highway speeds, as they'll rotate faster than they normally would at 12V.
If you wire the pc case fans in series, each gets 6V, and will run pretty quiet.
Will have enough flow to cool the bike at idle.
In parallel they'll run quite loud at ilde (like a desktop pc with fans at full blast), but you won't hear much of it when riding.

15W-40 10W-40 is OK too.

I use Shell Rotella T4 15W-40

Shifts smoothly, and it's compatible with the clutch. If it "shifts like garbage" with this oil, it will probably shift like garbage with another brand/viscosity. Maybe your clutch needs adjustment. Believe me, I am NOT the only one that uses this oil.

Others choose a motorcycle specific oil (for the clutch).

Many CG250 owners use T4. Templar 172FMM as well. 1 to 1.1 quart

Can confirm, ran Rotella T4 in my last 4 bikes without issue. Including my '07 Warrior 1700. Currently running cheaper oil in my Templar X until I hit 500mi and then I'm switching it over to T4

I've known about people using Rotella in bikes for over ten years and this is the first I've heard of anyone blaming clutch issues on it. Now if it was some other oil "like" Rotella, that indeed could be an issue.

The only ones that give clutch issues, are the oils with friction modifiers.
The semi synthetic 0W oils.
Those are the oils that are most suited for engines.
0W oils are also bad for transmissions. They give great lubrication and cooling, but they're not very good for high torque, lower speed applications like on transmissions.

Ideally the transmission has it's own 80W transmission oil, and the engine has it's 0W engine oil.
That way your oil changes will last the longest.
But for a vehicle using the same oil for both engine and transmission, 10W40 is a good intermedium.

I personally wouldn't go for anything above 15W40, like 15W50 or higher, as it robs engine power, and the oil really isn't going to get that hot, especially not if the bike is running tuned (not too lean).

I live in hot south Florida, and may need 10W40 to 15W50 in stock form, where the bike ran super lean and came with a 95 main jet. But after swapping it out to a 110 jet, the bike is noticeably cooler, and I currently run 10W30 in there. No indication on the oil going black yet.
However, my next oil change will be 10W40 again.

Just avoid anything that has "Dexos", "Dexos 2" or "synthetic blend" on them.
I'm not sure if oil marked with "high mileage", is good or bad.

The Shell Rotella T4 15W40 Diesel oil is a lot cheaper than other oils, but it's high zinc content will destroy the catalytic converter.
Not an issue if you're running aftermarket exhausts.

Additionally, zinc is an additive that causes wear. While it also strengthens the steel, it should only be at higher levels during the break in.
If you want to go the cheap route, add 50% of another 10W40 oil like Pennzoil, which has a lower Zinc content.

Additionally, 15W40 oil is considered 'high mileage' oil. Oil that's generally to be used at the end of the engine's life cycle. You'll lower efficiency for less oil loss (leaking). I would really only save 15W40 oils for when the engine shows leaks from thinner oils.

After we got my sons Templar X all set, It started blowing a fuse when you push the rear brake lever, but also the front brake lever :wtf: I disconnected them both and the starter wouldn't turn of course, but I jumped it at the starter relay and it popped to life as usual (with a new 10A fuse).

User error! I discovered that I had zip tied the rear brake wire on the right side of the oil breather tube too close to the exhaust. It had melted and was shorting out on the exhaust pipe :doh:
Apparently, these wires are joined via the path to the taillight (and start button defeat safety circuit), so pulling the front brake lever also grounded out the 12V black wire, blowing the fuse.

I pulled them apart and insulated them, then zip tied it to the other side farther away from the exhaust... fixed.

But this is why I asked about the starter lockout circuit. Obviously, it was impossible to start using the starter button with this transient issue (did not always happen...the worst kind of fail!). After blowing through a few fuses, I disconnected the two brake light switches (the 2 wire connectors near the switches). It stopped blowing fuses but I had to start it by jumping the wires at the starter relay. It started easily, and instantly (we did rejet). Thisa means that ignition switch powers the CDI to running mode, and the brake light circuit only blocks the starter relay circuit.

There are two wires on the brake lights switches. The black wire gets 12V when you turn the key on (this is why it was blowing the fuse). The other wire (green) gets 12V when you hit the brakes.

***I do not understand how your brake switch defeat works. If you don't hit the brake, that green wire doesn't have 12V.

I tested the FOUR wires on the R/S connector, and none of them get 12V when you turn on the ignition (one is a ground). How does NOT hitting the brake provide power to the R/S switch after your mod? I am just not getting this :hmm:

MA or MA2 oil
 

The proper oil for motorcycle wet/oil clutches is designated JASO MA or MA2. You'll see MA or MA2 clearly highlighted on the back of motorcycle oil containers.


To save a buck, you can find JASO MA2 oil at the general store (WM) for $7.84/quart (at this writing) under their brand name "SuperTech" (blue bottle), clearly labeled "Motorcycle oil" on the bottle front.

I suspect that even our friends in Bentonville, AR, who do our REAL shopping for us, don't own a refinery? ... and that they got some refinery to put their brand name, "SuperTech" on blue bottles for them. SuperTech oil is full-synthetic (and not even black in the bottle) ! <G>

Of course, if $7.84/quart is too much, you can try molasses; but, I suspect that a full-cost accounting comparison between the savings vs. a new motorcycle engine and transmission cost may not look like much real savings? <G>

------------

Viscosity ranges and recommendations pertain to outside ambient temperatures for starting an engine - not internal engine temperatures. Since I won't risk riding in potential frostbite temperatures ... and my bike resides in the garage, always heated to at least 40* F, 20W - 50 viscosity works just fine for me.

I'm real good at confusing people...don't feel bad.
When you checked that 4 wire connector...did you make sure the kill switch was on?
That green w/yellow stripe wire was + with my ignition and kill switch was on. I hooked it up that way to retain kill switch function.

True, but halfway.
The oil W-ratings pertains to ambient temperatures, with the engine running within specified parameters.
Because the import regulations on emissions, a lot of these bikes are shipped way too lean, sacrificing engine life for meeting emissions standards on these bikes.
The oil obviously won't be affected by ambient temperatures outside the crankcase by as much as it is by the internal temperatures of the engine.

A lean running engine runs hot.
A hot running engine wears out the oil.
Avoid running lean, avoids running too hot.

If they wanted to ship these bikes out (like my Vader 150) with a 95 main jet, they should have equipped the bike with an additional oil cooler.
Switching to a 110-115 main jet resolves all overheating issues, and thus reduce engine oil wear; even at +100F ambient temperatures.

GM engineers already proven that lower viscosity oil, rated for lower ambient temperatures, can easily be ran in their vehicles (even with high ambient temperatures), offering superior lubrication and cooling compared to their higher viscosity counterparts.

That 0W30 / 10W40 engine oil chart from the Chinese bike engines, is an old 1970's-1980's chart Honda used on those engines.
Technology and science have evolved since then.

MA and MA2 oil, costs more, and didn't exist in the 1970-1980s (the time when these engines were designed).
I think a lot of people are looking for cheaper oils that still work.
1970s oil and standards were a lot lower than today's.

The ZS172FMM(Templar X) shares the same engine base as the 170MM-2, confirmed and the 174MN-3/ZS174MN-5 are modifications of the 170MM-2 which are water cooled. The newer Templar X frame is a copy/modified Zuum CR300 CBs, Racer X-2, BSE J7(only the older 2020 models). So your only option to direct bolt on a water-cooled engine is the NB300 ZS174MN-5.

https://i.ibb.co/ZYfFR2s/tvptntnsowu-1024x768.jpg

So,

Between installing a new headlight bulb, charger for my phone wired to ignition switch, and dropping my bike pretty hard on the concrete floor I completely lost any spark. Unplugged and replugged every connector on the bike to make sure that wasn't the issue. Verified start/stop switch was working. I went ahead and ordered a new coil and cdi. If neither of those fix the issue then I have no idea what I would do after that... Anyone got any tips for me for things to check?

I read the X comes with AC cdi but I think mine has a DC unit. I ordered both types just in case. I can return the ones not used.

The main fuse is a 10A 250V bullet style fuse in the little white plastic thing with red wire connected to the + post on the battery (the thick wire goes to the starter solenoid).

Is that main fuse blown?? Those are cheap. A ground fault in your new wiring have have been created.

I verified the fuse is good. The bike wouldn't turn on if the fuse was blown either, right?

Ground fault... Sounds fun trying to track that down.

My phone charger connected to bike has a voltmeter and I noticed my voltage drops from 13.5 to roughly ~9.5 by switching the engine cut switch off ( run position ) I don't notice the drop on the instrument panel battery meter but maybe that one isn't as precise.

10 Amps doesn't sound like much, but yes, everything but the starter runs through that fuse!

If the fuse is blown, nothing will work/light up. The main fuse also powers the trigger lead on the starter relay/solenoid. So blown fuse will prevent the relay from triggering the starter as well. But you can bypass the solenoid by connecting the two thick wires that are connected to the solenoid (connect the battery + directly to the starter).


This is a little confusing, your statement:

"drops from 13.5 to roughly ~9.5 by switching the engine cut switch off ( run position )"

These two phrases seem opposite-

"engine cutoff switch off"
"on position" (which is ON)

Not sure which you mean.

Regardless, the voltage drop should barely change if you switch the key on and the run/stop switch is in the ON position. Maybe 0.5 volts if that much (assuming the lights are not on).

To find the large voltage draw you apparently have...
Remove the power connections that you added first, and see if the voltage still drops like that.

If removing those doesn't fix it, move onto each circuit behind the headlight. You can unplug the power on the turn signal flasher, horn, etc. One of the circuits is drawing high current. My guess is something that you added.

shift lever looks way too low, rather than shift lever bottom level with the peg. You might experience a much nicer/easier shift up, getting under the lever, by loosening the lock bolt and raising the lever a knurl or two.

Looks like my issue was the phone charger I wired into the ignition switch. I don't fully understand why, but I unwired the charger and now I have spark again. Anyone know a proper & safe way I can wire it into the ignition switch? I want it to turn on and off via the key.

Wire 12V devices directly from the battery with a fuse for safest setup. If the charger draws ANY power when it isn't charging something, then you need to isolate it with a switch as well. Single Pole Single Throw (SPST) switches are cheap and lots out there.

The power drain while off was my main concern and why I wanted to have it ignition controlled, but I guess I'm not electrically inclined enough to do that right.

If you pull the gas tank and look on the left side of the frame there is an unused connector that is only powered on with the ignition. I happened to have the tank off doing something else when I noticed it. I believe others on the forum have mentioned it too. I judged it ideal for a phone charger. I clipped the connector off and added a pair of wires that ran up behind the headlight. I don't have a charger or phone mount picked out yet so I just tied them up for now. The wires are quite small, I would try to use them to power added driving lights or anything but they seem ideal for the low draw of a charger.

Our bikes use a generic wiring harness, which is why the headlight connector has insufficient lead length, the speedo sender is about 16-18" too long (on the 2024 TempX we just assembled), etc.

And, that lead under the tank is probably for a fuel tank level sender, which we don't have, of course.

They must have run out of rivets at the seat factory (my son's new 2024 Temp X). They used small metal screws to attach the rear mounting brackets and one screw dropped out while we were unpaccking. I have a pop riveittor and it took seconds to replace the screw. Much more secure. I think these will get replaced one by one, as they fall out!

I just removed the headlight to install a short extension on the upper mounts, install sequential led front turn signals, my high powered led H4 compatible headlight element, and maybe install a horn (missing). This is first gen Temp X, with a 5 speed. Frankly, I am amazed at how dependable this bike has been. The engine has been flawless, starting so easily, runs quiet, shifts smoothly.

I will take much more care tucking the wiring back in this time, and attach the lower headlight rubber straps, which have been loose for two years!

Bought and installed a Nibbi PE 30. For a dumb reason. I was tweaking the Youall. I had a lean bog and it was a bit too slow to warm so I figured to step up one with the low speed jet. But until I got around to that I jacked the idle air screw to see if I could improve it a bit. Backed it out a bit too far I guess and it disappeared out on the road.

I lost one years ago from a Honda too. Ended up having to replace the entire carb. Figured the same here. A "universal" one I had didn't fit. (Doesn't fit ANYTHING, I swear.) Two others borrowed off smaller carbs didn't fit either. So carb shopping I went.

It later occurred to me that one of you guys who had tossed the stock carb might hook me up but never mind now.

Stock type replacements that I saw looked like fairly crummy castings. Nibbis look nicer. Price of a 28 on Amazon doesn't thrill me much. Hit eBay and somebody not terribly far away had a 30 "open box" for like $25 under list with free shipping. I bit. Once I found the external dimensions for the manifold and air filter fittings were the same as a 28 and the stock one. Not gonna lie, the neato black color appeals to me too.

Jets are 140 and ....28, I think? I wrote it down. Cable, fuel line, and stock remote enrichener all fitted right up. To make it easier to swap the cable on I pulled the seat and tank. Also the intake. After taking off the oversized idle speed screw I managed to wiggle it into place.

A bit of burble getting fuel to and in it but I already feel it's going to be better at cold starts as is. Runs nice in the shop but responsibilities came crashing down and I haven't had a chance to actually ride it and get it really warmed up. Feeling pretty positive though.

How is the new carb doing? Got some driving time? I'm waiting on a new cheap horn to install before putting the headlight back on. Meantime, installed a Nibbi coil/plug wire and new starter cable. Also adjusted the chain since I just lowered the bike.

While waiting, I have the tank off so going to check valve clearance this morning.
I will probably take an inch off the kickstand. It is almost too long now. :lol:

@Thumper: I'm not who you replied to but the Nibbi PE30 on my 6-speed Templar X works well. The single jet I had to swap was the pilot jet from the preinstalled 40 to the included 35 to get the idle tuned.

No performance changes but now it doesn't run rich, which was my problem before (smelly exhaust, totally black spark plug). Looks nicer though, and who doesn't like a big knob? The idle mixture screw, I mean.

I ditched the handlebar-mounted choke lever for simplicity, a bit of a pain to reach in for the choke plunger but the benefits outweigh the occasional inconvenience.