Carb in Magician loose on engine seal
 

I had a huge issue in my Magician today. It died when I came to a stop after I ran it around for a few minutes. I couldn't get it back running without putting the choke back on and even then it wouldn't stay. Turns out the seal on Carb was loose and smoke was coming out of it. I got it back to my house and took a closer look and the nuts were missing off of it?! I need to get the bolts but don't know the exact size. I am guessing 10mm bolt size but am not sure. Anyone know the size? Also since the vibration is most likely the culprit here, should I put loctite on these and most bolts on the magician?

On the head side or carb flange? Should both be M6x1.00

head side.

Yeah, so those bolts should be an M6x1.0 metric thread. You can get them at Ace Hardware pretty easy. Toss a dab of blue loctite on the new ones when you install, but don't tighten them more than 15-20ft-lbs.

Thanks for you help Megadan. I was able to get it back on correctly but now I am still having the issue of not being able to keep the bike running. It starts out strong but then dies, only when I keep using the throttle does it stay running. How can I solve this?

Well, before going into further troubleshooting, let's start with the most common cause of running issues.

Check the valve lash. Set the intake and exhaust to .003"/.004" on a cold engine. You can find how to do this on youtube, just use the Hawk 250 in the search criteria. It uses the same engine, so everything else should be identical.

After trying that, report back and we can move forward.

I figured I what have to adjust the valves soon anyways so I will check the gaps and change accordingly.

This seems strange to be happening now because besides the bike running lean I have put over 600 miles on it and it would stay running. It does seem like the gas isn't making it to the carb either. I'm not very mechanically inclined but I am just making some observations.

It very well could be another issue, or a combination of issues. I am just suggesting starting with the valve lash because more than half of the time that is the culprit. Followed closely by vacuum leaks. I also brought it up first because you stated you saw smoke from the intake port, which is not normal for a properly seated and sealed intake valve.

As far as fuel not making it to the carb, it could be an issue with the tank vacuum locking, aka the tank is getting negative pressure buildup because the cap is not venting air in like it is supposed to. While not super common, it is a known problem on the Hawks, and could very well be a similar issue with the Magicians. The other possibility is that the float or float valve in the carburetor is stuck, thus cutting off fuel flow to the carb. This would be an easy thing to check for and fix. Try tapping on the carb bowl and body from a couple of different angles/positions, and see if the fuel starts flowing in.

and in addition to what MD stated you make have gotten trash in the jet.

Thanks for explanation. One thing at a time.

More often than not, running issues tend to be something very simple. It is just a process of elimination. By checking and eliminating the biggest and most common problems as variables it will help in narrowing down the actual issue.

One suggestion, replace the stock fuel line with a clear line. You can pick up some lawn and garden fuel hose at the parts store cheap. It's handy to have for seeing if fuel is actually flowing to the carb.

Our Pastor had a 50cc scooter that he laid down while making a left at an intersection, after which it would not start. I took it home and spent an entire afternoon on it, looking for anything that could have been compromised by an impact. I tested all of the usual suspects, like the kickstand switch, CDI, coil, reg/rec, etc. It turned out to be that the exhaust valve was too tight, and it chose that moment to present itself.

Thanks for the story. I have been trying to get my bike ready to get inspected so I can finally register it and I am just frustrated. I can look at it now as all of this is teaching me so much about maintaining a bike. I have zero experience in this as this is my first bike. So I am grateful for all who help me out and the lessons I am learning from this. I tried to start motorcycling a few years ago and I crashed a SV650 on a test ride weeks after my MSF course. I was completely in over my head. I have been looking to get back into riding but I was apprehensive and finally decided that I must start slow and steady and get good at riding on this 250 but it also comes with learning a lot of the mechanical aspects.

Well, you picked the right bike for learning the mechanical side of things - you can't get much simpler and easy to work on. After you wrap your head around it a little bit you will come to realize that most of it is really simple stuff. These are good skills to learn and things to know. It's your butt in the saddle, and when things go wrong it can be a lot more dangerous. That's why I am so overkill with my maintenance and safety checks. After a while it becomes habit.

Plus, once you get these bikes sorted out, they are pretty darn reliable. The only repairs I have really had to do are because my bike has been laid down a couple of times.

I got the valve adjustment done and I also did my oil change. I noticed that i had put the wrong oil in my Magician. I got 20-5w but it was regular motor oil and not SF rated so that's not good. I got the right kind now. I had not changed the oil since I first put oil in. Also I have been noticing that I have an oil leak and it looks like its around the seams where the engine is sealed.

I was able to get the bike started on the first crank with choke on and I have never had that happen. So that's good. I did notice the engine sounds much better already with the adjustment. I wasn't able to get it running consistently in half-choke and then the battery started dying on me because of all the times I have tried to start the engine. So I stopped and put the battery on a charger and I am gonna have to wait till it charges.

Any thoughts on this so far?

Not a big deal with the wrong oil type. Maybe change the oil a bit sooner for the next go around just to ensure you got the rest of the "bad" stuff out, but it should be fine.

As far as the oil leak. Is it at the head gasket or the base of the cylinder where it meets the engine cases? This seems to pop up from time to time. You can check the head bolt torque to make sure one or two aren't loose. This will require taking the rocker assembly off, but it is pretty easy - 3 bolts. Then you will see the 4 head bolts. The torque spec is kind of generalized, but I have my head set to 28ft-lbs. Just go over them in a cross cross pattern like you would a 4 lug car wheel.

If that doesn't stop the leak then either the head gasket or base gasket may have been damaged during assembly. You can buy both as a pair for about 10-12 bucks on ebay.

As far as the bike starting, running, and sounding better. It's amazing what a proper valve adjustment can do ain't it?

The running issues you are experiencing aren't uncommon. To really get it to run properly it will require upping the main jet size to at least a 105, shimming the needle with at least 1 shim, and uncapping and turning the idle mixture screw out to around 1 1/2 turns from seated. This is a pretty good baseline carb setup for most stock Hawks and Magicians.

Thanks for all your insightful information. I tried to get it running and with no luck. The bike won't stay on without constant throttle with the choke on. So what could be the most likely culprit?

Well, in general, it's too lean. If you leave the choke on until it is hot and then open the choke up (turn it off) does it run better, or does it only ever run with the choke on, no matter what?

I can only keep it running with the choke on. I stayed at least 10 to 15 mins and I couldn't keep it running on half choke.

That makes me suspect a vacuum leak. Check the condition of the O-ring seals on the intake to the head surface, and on the carb to the intake surface. Check the intake over very well for any rips, tears, or holes in the rubber and that the flange surfaces on it are flat.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/SmxZbohEck4BCTYk1
O-ring in Carb
Well I looked at the O-ring on the carb side and found this above.

I didn't pull out the other O-ring yet but it was snug in the seal.

Looks like you found the problem.:tup:

Where can I find the same O-ring size at?

I am fairly certain there is a Honda OEM O-ring that is the same size, but you have a couple of other options.

You could buy this kit, which includes an O-ring that will work. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1Set...ceBeautifyAB=0

Otherwise, if you can measure the inside diameter of the O-ring, and a rough thickness I can try to hunt down a Honda part number that will work.

That, or head to your local parts store and try to match up an O ring that can work.

You should be able to match up the o-ring at your local hardware store or auto parts.

Harbor Freight is likely to have an assorted o-ring kit that'll have a match.

Thanks guys! I am headed to an autozone after work and try my luck there.

I'm with Weldangrind, Harbor Freight has a nice package of O-rings in a plastic case, maybe they have the right one?


https://www.harborfreight.com/180-pi...kit-67525.html

I think those are in mm. There aren't any in that package that are big enough...ARH :cry:

Maybe these but I cant remember if I actually seen them in the store.

If you use the slide bar below the picture you can zoom in and see the sizes that are in the box.

https://www.harborfreight.com/397-pi...ent-67580.html

Yes, they should be in that assortment. P30, P31, P32, or P33 ought to be it....ARH :D:D

I found the right O-ring size in a packet of assorted ones at Autozone and I got it back on there and I re-assembled the Carb and put it back in place. I was trying to test it out but the throttle is stuck. I figured I put the plunger back into the carb wrong so I am gonna take a look at today and fix that.

If you over-tightened the carb/intake pipe bolts it can also cause this problem....ARH :p

I was able to keep it running finally and I took it out and ran it for awhile. Its much better after the valve adjustment. Also the throttle issue was the cable from the throttle to the carb was not straightend out and the plunger was in wrong. So I got it back on close to right. The bike spurts and spits on high rpm in 2nd and 3rd and also I noticed that it tops out at 54mph and I was getting almost 65 mph before the valve adjustment. So I'm thinking i need to do the mikuni carb with new jets like most of us here.

In other news I was able to get to Jiffy lube and get it inspected!! Last thing now is to get it registered and I am gonna do that tomorrow! I am so excited to get this registered and I am feeling very confident in the work I have done on my own. I owe Megadan and all on the thread a whole lot of gratitude. Thanks for all the help and encouragement! Its really great to have so much help and its just so rare to find it these days.

Now some pics from today my fav spot to ride up to, a hill in my area. Beautiful country. Its a great day to be alive.

https://pcast01.github.io/assets/images/magician1.jpg
https://pcast01.github.io/assets/images/magician2.jpg

Congrats on a successful registration. You like this bike now, but you're gonna love it when it's dialed in.

Yeah, jetting is off. If you buy a Mikuni, be sure to get genuine Mikuni jets. "Just as good as" and "Will fit" jets are not made to anywhere near the same standard so it's a crap shoot with them....ARH