Gio X31 build-up thread
 

Ok, for those of you who have followed my few posts, You know what I am all about. Do it once, do it right and enjoy a cold one instead of doing the job twice!

I bought my Gio x31, never had much of a problem with it.

Right out of the box it got a GOOD carb cleaning and new fuel lines with a good filter.

Then it got lights and a switch.

It just got new sprocket bolts and a good thourough carb cleaning and suspension lubing.

This winter I am going ALL out!!

I am stripping the bike down to the bare frame and it is being sandblasted and powercoated with a nice baby blue glossy finish.

I just ordered an 18 tooth front drive sprocket...that will increase the top speed a tad. I am going to TRY and get my hands on a higher compression piston....maybe 10 - 11:1 to up the ante a little with the name brands lol.

The front tire on the bike is just like new, but I am not so crazy about the drive tire....I am going to replace it with a Kenda Millville....Might do both to say it's done.

I already got my red plastics ordered, and I am going to drop them off to my buddy who is going to have his dad's sign shop sticker them up to look EXACELY like the older CR honda's graphics.

Once the frame is done, the bike is being assembeled with ALL hardened stainless fasteners.....and about a gallon of blue loctite lol.

Any opinions or ideas will be welcomed on this. I am always looking for ways to improve things....some say it's why I have no fingernails and permanent grease stains on my hands.

I shouldn't have ANY problem doing this ability wise, but time will be a factor. I am also building a de-compressed, hot pumped, BIG single turboed, intercooled 7.3 mechanically indriectly injected diesel....not a powerstroke, but one of the old non turbo International diesel engines that used to come in the Ford pickups. I am shooting for 400 flywheel horsepower in her and I am dropping that into a 1994 F350 crew cab long box that I am converting from gas, automatic 2wd to a diesel, standard 4x4 with all rebuild parts..

..I don't know why I do these kinds of things to myself lol.

I really look forward to following your progress.

BTW, I really love Halifax. I've done a lot of riding up there, I had a girlfriend from there also :wink: . Beautiful city, and a beautiful Province. Great riding. :D

Sounds like you've been hitting the Newfie Screech. Excellent. :D

Beware that stainless fasteners are only about grade 2 in regular SAE bolt speak. I totally agree with stainless stuff for non-tensile loads, but you might need to choose grade 5 or 8 for some stuff, like motor mounts. Whether stainless or not, I use socket head cap screws wherever I can.

Lets talk torque. How much will the International make? I think that the 7.3 was the pre-'04 motor, IIRC. Do you have a donor diesel truck that will give up the trans, etc? What turbo will you use? Factory wastegate or adjustable? I'm gonna geek out over both of these projects, and I hope you start a new thread for the truck.

WEll, the 7.3 I have came into play in 1988. Previous to that it was a 6.9 and it came into the picture in 1983. The 6.9 and the 7.3 are virtually the same engine, just the bore on a 6.9 is 4" even and the bore on a 7.3 is 4.11". Both have the same 4.1" stroke and share EVERY other part besides the pistons and head bolts.

These engine went off the market in 1994.5 when international decided to release the electronic, direct injected powerstroke which had 3 generations from 1994.5 through to 2003 when it was dropped in favor of the poison 6.0 powerstroke....that engine was pure junk.

But back to my IDI engine. Its 100% mechanical. I can jump start it with litterally just a 14 gauge wire off a battery and it will run no problem.....try THAT with a powerstroke! LOL

I am guessing that my torque will be around the 700 - 750 ft. lbs mark. Factory my engine would have only made 190 horses and 370 ft. lbs. of torque.

I have an ATS 093 wastegated turbo setup currently. I can run it to about 25 PSI but anymore than tha t and it will start to choke itself out for power.

She is having a set of pistons made specially with the wrist pin 30 thousandths higher on the piston to lower the compression. As it is indirect injection, there is a pre-combustion chamber in the head. I am porting them puppies WIDE open and doing a little port work on the heads intane and exhaust runners. She is getting an aggressive cam, ARP head studs to hold the heads on and an intercooler out of a freightliner M2-106. Along with a hot "Moose" pump and a brand new set of pressure matched BB injectors.....stage 1 sticks from DPS.

I got the truck I am driving now which has a PILE of work done to it. It's not performance work, but ruggedness work. She has had a 5 speed ZF s5-47 transmission swap to replace the E4OD automatic, dana 60 front axle swap and both driveshafts built from scratch to make up for the difference in length between teh tranny and axle swaps.

When the time comes, I am parking both trucks side by side and goin to town. The blue F250 I got is coming apart and all the parts I need are going on the red F350.

F350 pics

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=ea3edc27d8

F250 pics

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=b835ede37d

The F250 ati't much to look at, but it regularly hands me 22 - 25 MPG's and while in 4 wheel drive, there ain't much that can stand in her way!

Oh man, I'm beggin' you to start a new thread! I especially like the photo with all the concrete pilings in the box; from the thumbnail pic, I though those were wine corks! :lol:

I had NO IDEA that ZF made transmissions for applications like that. I thought they were all about sports cars. It makes sense though, since the Germans are big into diesel stuff, so ZF has probably been making truck transmissions for a long time.

I'm not as familiar with diesel speak as I am gas, so here goes: instead of custom pistons, could you have 0.030" flycut from the stock-style piston? Would that weaken the piston significantly or perhaps get the ring lands too close to the top?

My Dad has a 2003 Powerstroke, and it continues to live. He's a complete hillbilly (which really begins to explain me), and he punishes his truck in Alberta. I'm gonna guess that he has in excess of 400000km on it, and it still makes impressive power. I've read several horror stories about the 6.0, yet his still makes smoke. I agree that they're hard-starting, but his always does. I guess there are always exceptions to the rule, but I'd still take the IH. 8)

Im only familiar with ZF transmissions on BMW's and Corvettes. I don't know if the current Corvettes use ZF manual transmissions but my 1996 C4 does. Very strong transmission, but with straight cut, non-helical gears, not very quiet. Kinda like a truck tranny. :wink:

I certainly can start a new thread once parts and pieces arrive. The reason why I am going with the new pistons is due to two of my pistons having stress fractures in the top. I am going to have the new ones ceramic coated as well, help with the heat distribution and durability.

The motor in that blue F250 has 524 000 kilometers on her. NOT ONCE has a head, valve pan cover or any major been off her. It's untouched and it runs as good as the day it was bought. burns 1/2 a quart of oil between oil change intervals of 5000 kilometers. $80 will take me right around 450 - 500 kilometers of mixed city and highway driving. I absolutely LOVE this truck. She ain't a show truck, but it's 8000 pounds of Canadian Muscle I will NEVER give up. That's right, not an american truck...she was built in Ontario back in 1992 as a 1993 model!

Ok, the Red body kit arrived yesterday along with the 18 tooth front drive sprocket. But due to my good nature and willingness to help friends out, I wasn't able to put them on the bike until today. I wound up making a 500 kilometer trek across Nova Scotia, right after work yesterday with the F250 and a car trailer to retrieve a full size loncoln continental.....THAT was fun!

Anywho, I stuck the sprocket on the bike today and WOW! What a difference. I think it will be no good in the tight trails anymore, but I figgure it will do 70 MPH now...without too much trouble power wise.

This is how I did the math. http://www.gearingcommander.com/

Top speed on a stock 15 tooth front sprocket is a mere 58 MPH....nothing to laugh at, but I will STOMP ANY stock gio x31, 35 or 37 in a drag race now. First isn't as deep as I'd like, but it's not bad....closer to second dear on a stock bike but not as tall.

The thing FLIES now. I can't wait to tear into the engine with a big bore kit (possibility) or just a high compression piston (of which I am having a HECK of a hard time locating)

Cna anyone point me to the right direction of a big bore kit/high compression piston for a 2011 Gio x31...overhead cam engine.

I found gasket kits, but I need the actual hardware to fit her.

I'm kinda surprised that you have room for an 18 tooth sprocket. Are you running without the cover? Not sure about where to find big bore stuff, but I'd be looking to Honda aftermarket bits. Do you know what the bore is now? I'll bet you can find a Wiseco that would meet your needs. If it helps, I can always measure an old XR200R piston, to help you determine wrist pin diameter, ring land height, skirt height, etc. I presume that your engine is a two-valve OHC, not four.

What year was the Continental?

When I first stuck the 18 tooth sprocket in there and held the cover up by hanbd I heard metal on metal....GREAT!

But after I pulled the cover back off I seen a little dirt in there...I cleaned it out with a wire brush and it went away. Provided I keep the chain adjusted JUST right it JUST clears. 17 tooth would be a much better fit though.

I am not 100% certain on the bore size. I have read places that it is 65.5MM, others claim it to be 69MM and a few other sites range it anywheres in between. I can find ALL kinds of parts for smaller engines, but hardly any kits for the 250 engines.

I am not 100% on it, but I think the car was a 1996. She was a big old boat that's for sure! I had to haul it up highway 103 through the hilly area along the east coast, then down the 107 to the end of that....what a long haul!

There's no soul in a '96. I would have left it for dead. :lol: The '71 Mark III had style.

There is no way to be sure about bore size until you tear into it. The stamping on the left side (near the gearshift) is an indicator, but it could be wrong. Since you have the gaskets, you might choose to pull the piston and see what aftermarket Honda solutions you can find. Again, I bet there's a Wiseco out there with the compression you're after.

There's no soul in a '96. I would have left it for dead. The '71 Mark III had style.

+1

:?

Well, I had the bike up for sale/trade on Kijiji due to me needing another vehicle.

The BS replies I got from IDIOTS out there was unreal. Some people email and offer me $200, $500....some people offer me a beat to death not running car, truck or video game consoles. I never replied to any of them.

Starting this weekend, the teardown begins. I am stripping the ENTIRE bike down, putting the parts in bags and going ahead with the build.

Frame being sprayed with a QUALITY enamel base clear.

I couldn't find a big bore kit, but I am in the process of confirming a high compression piston. A little off the head and it will MAKE SURE I am in the 11 - 11.5 to 1 range.

I will post pics of the ENTIRE build up from first bolt removed, to last bolt installed.

Wish me luck!

Sorry to hear about the goofballs who responded to your ad. That said, I'm very interested to see how this build goes. I love polishing these turds into something fun and useful.

Well, I got up this morning and headed straight to the garage.

The engine is OUT of the bike, and the top end is completely off it. I couldn't see any timimg marks on the case, so I made one when I had everything lined up. Small notch to judge by. The timing mark has to be in a straight line with the cam, with the timing mark on the cam to the left of the bolts at 90* to TDC.

What I want to do is install a high compression piston, port and polish the intake and exhaust runners in the head, check the deck and head for trueness and install with a new set of gaskets. Performance CDI, coil and stator to make sure I am getting optimum spark.

This engine is going to RUN when I am done.

I need to measure the piston and wrist pin and go on the hunt for a piston. Any help here would be GREATLY appriciated as I do not know of any reputable shops online to get performance parts from.

Pics in my FB album, feel free to add me on FB if you want.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...1&l=ccc8030b71

I think that Wiseco makes among the best aftermarket pistons. Once you have measurements, I'll be happy to compare them with a few pistons I have around here.

Thanks Weld...I am going to the shop tomorrow to get my calipers and my precision measuring tools.

I know we are at a 65mm bore.

Ok Mr Weld!

I got those measurements:

I used a mastercraft digital caliper to give me my readouts.

Piston bore size : 64.84MM (65MM bore)

Top of piston to bottom of skirt : 42.58MM (42.5m

Wrist Pin : 14.97MM (15MM)

Top of piston to top of Wrist pin : 14.64MM

Top of piston to center of wrist pin : 22.12MM

I think I gathered up 0.072" clearance at TDC from the piston top to the edge of the cylinder head where the piston would first contact if it centered too high.

Can I plain 0.035" off my culinder's deck to gain a little on my CR?

I'm measuring an old XR200 piston with a Performance Tool digital caliper. $5.00 at a garage sale, and worth every penny. :lol:

The wrist pin is 14.97mm, so we're off to a good start. The measurement from the bottom of the skirt to the piston top depends on whether you include the pop-up; 49mm without the pop-up, 50.20 with.

Center of wrist pin to piston top: 25.45mm / 27.05mm (approximate)

Top of wrist pin to piston top: 18.20mm / 19.77mm (approximate)

It looks like a Honda piston would be considerably higher, so I sure wouldn't plane the cylinder. Wiseco pistons to match the XR200 are available in 65.5mm, 66mm, 66.5mm and 67mm. Do you plan to bore out the cylinder?

Do you have an OHC engine? If so, perhaps a Honda cylinder would fit, which would allow you to run a bigger bore without machining costs.

YEP! She is an OHC engine.

Currently there is no market for a high compression piston for the Zongshen CB250 (overhead cam engine) but apparently it is in the works..

What I might do in this case, is just plain the cylinder down, try and find a thinner head gasket (if not, plain the cylinder own some more to compensate) and stick it back together.

Maybe I can save a little more coin and go with a bigger bore cylinder like the XR200's and throw an oversize bore kit in THAT to REALLY pump up the CC's and compression.

I am not sure what to do here....any suggestions?

Should I put an XR200's cylinder and piston in it? What is the bore and stroke of an older XR200?

1992 XR200R

65.5MM Bore and 57.8MM stroke

MY engine is a Zongshen CB350

65MM bore and 67MM stroke.

My TDC clearance is roughly 0.072" ot 1.84MM

The honda piston is about 3.56mm taller than my stock Zongshen piston.

I wonder is I can mill down the piston to make it work. I am near the top of the cylinder now when the piston is at TDC. I can reassemble and take a definite measurement of the piston when it is at TDC.

At best, I think I have 0.085" clearance when assembled with the stock head and base gaskets.

Is there a thicker base gasket I can run?

Whereas I respect the effort and the thought and the engineering I can't help but think that the cost/benefit thing is not going to work out on this...

With that said you could be the first to put a 4 valve XR200 engine in a CB :P

It seems to me that the easiest route is to use a Honda cylinder and Wiseco piston. Does your engine have an automatic decompressor? You'll need one, or you'll break the kicker shaft.

You could certainly fly-cut a Honda piston to work with a China cylinder, but it would be way more advantageous to use an uncut Wiseco. I might even have an extra cylinder laying around.

Another thought is to use a piston designed for a 200cc Honda Big Red. They had a 65mm bore. You cut fly-cut that to zero deck and have a nice day. The wiseco version of the Big Red piston is available in either 10.25:1 or 12:1! 8O

BTW, if you want a thicker base gasket, just stack two of 'em.

I don't think she has any type of decompression valve. None that I can see anyways.

I am going to try and dig up info on a big red piston, but it appears that I might be going with the honda cylinder and piston route.

Can you show us a close-up pic of the right side of the engine?

ummmm....I can try. I got the whole thing apart and on the desk. There is no manual d.c. valve, and I am postitve there is no auto d.c. valve. Just an intake valve, exhaust valve and a spark plug in the head.

I believe you. I'm wondering if Honda bits can be adapted, since the motor in "inspired" by Honda stuff.

I believe there are generic decompression valves available. People install them on high compression Harleys and the like to help save the starter motors. They install through a small hole drilled and tapped into the head.

I agree the kickstart mechanism is a weak point on this motor design, as it is on the XR200's in general.

Ok, I have taken all the measurements, and taken pics of all the parts laid out on the computer room floor....yea, I know...I am a redneck for a reason lol.

What I am thinking of doing is buying a complete gasket kit, and then just a base gasket.

Putting the cylinder on with the piston inside and measuring clearance from TDC of the piston to the top of the deck.

THEN measure the head gasket thickness, factor in compression when it is torqued down. Measure for valve lift and see if the piston will impact any valves if I plain down the head.

Then meaure out how far I can plain the head down safely and have the piston valve reliefs cut accordingly. Then I think I am going to slap it all back together with the new gasket kit, rings and some synthetic oil and call her good for now.

What I might do is try and locate a blown up XR200R engine and build that fron the ground up. Seems to be a lot more of an aftermarket base for that engine than these overhad cam Zongshen ones.

http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?s...3&type=3&saved for pics

Well, I factored everything in, and it looks like I can get away with knocking 0.030" off eithe rthe cylinder or the head and not have any issues.

But, it's going to cost me $130 to shave 0.030 off the cylinder, more if I chose to shave down the head.

I ordered the gasket kit...the complete gasket kit for $40 today.

HOPEFULLY I'll be assembling the bike next weekend.

It's been a few weeks, just wondering if you got the engine put back together?

Actually, I am headed out to the shop today to start assembling the engine. I need to put a transfer case in my truck to start, then pick up some synthetic oil for the bike engine.

I hope to be making some noise with her tonight. It wont be fully assembled today, becaue I want to put a true mukini 30MM carb on her, something that will let her breathe properly.

Have you grabbed new jets for the Mikuni?

Not yet. I haven't even got the mikuni yet lol. I can get a used one for $30 plus shipping...$60 in total..and then jet it to what I need. I might as well throw a kit in it to freshen it up before I shove it on the bike.

You can get a new one for $40 including shipping on eBay. Jets are usually $4 each at the local Yamaha dealer.

Well, today I got some nice weather (+8*C) and some spare time, so I went ahead and stuck the motor in the bike.

The night I put her together, I was drinking with some friends and I SOMEHOW managed to jam the cam in 90* off, but I checked it before I started it and found it. I corrected it in about 5 minutes, and fired it up. It runs ok, but the cam tensioner is busted...the spring came apart inside and allows the cam chain to run slack. I need to get this addressed before i run it anymore, but it hits pretty hard!!

Videos to follow VERY shortly...hopefully by tonight.

If that's anything like the OHC XR200 motor, it'll carve up the aluminum in a hurry. Looking forward to pics.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWEOoHIqCqw

First startup. I have given it a tiny smash of ether before this to prime up the carb. As soon as it kicked I shut it down, got the camera and fired it up.

This is the bike running on the original carb, the new one is on the way from ebay...a true mukuni 30mm.

I have no reassembly pictures, but I can get some pics of the engine in the bike with all the copper gasket maker I used to seal it up for proof of reassembly.

Once I work out the cam tensioner problem, I will break it in, and take some good test videos of her moving along...it seems to work better, but I don't want to hammer on it until at least 20 hours of break in.

It's alive! :D

So, what did you shave in the end? Just the cylinder, or did you shave the head as well? Is the piston at zero deck now? Any idea of the CR now?

I expect that you'll need a 115 main and a 30 slow jet to feed that 230.

What kind of copper gasket maker do you use? Is an RTV?