Maintenance intervals: Break in Oil changes & Chain lube
 

So, it seems folks are doing the initial oil change anywhere between 200-500 miles - is that about right? The owners manual calls for doing it at 500 mi - but based on what I can tell, folks are doing an earlier one then the 500 mi one (and switching over to synthetic at 500 mi)

Is there a reason behind this? Also, what is considered standard practice for storing "used" oil for disposal?

Chain lube is also recommended every 500 miles - is there a way to *tell* when a chain needs lubing?

I changed mine at 200 miles and will change again at 1,000 miles, at which point I'll switch to synthetic and check the valves.

I store my used oil in the container that the new oil came from, then take it down to my local Autozone for recycling. Since I have 3 bikes, I always have a container or two available. If you are buying an oil change pan, get one with a cap, then you don't have to bother to transfer it to another container. Most pans of this type will hold oil from 3 or 4 oil changes.

Chain lubing depends on conditions. If you ride in dusty or wet conditions, you'll apply chain lube more frequently. I usually do a finger wipe and if lube doesn't transfer, it's time for more. The rollers are sealed with O-rings, so all you're really doing is keeping the links clean, since you can't force lube into the chain rollers. If you're adverse to getting too dirty, check into Scottoilers, they'll automatically do the job for you.

I have certainly broken in engines on synthetic with good results, but I have since given up on synthetic oils. Instead, I use a good quality 15W40 conventional oil and change it every 10 hours or so.

I ran the bike about 200 miles with the motor oil installed by the factory. I felt a little guilty when I changed that oil, since it was so clean. ;) I replaced the factory oil with Mobil, Delvac, 15W/40 motor oil, and rode the bike until the odometer reached 900 miles before I changed the oil again. I will ride the bike until 2,000 miles, before I change the oil the third time. Thereafter I will change the oil every 2,000 miles. :)

I always use 15W/40 motor oil in all my motorcycles, with excellent success. :tup:

Changed at 175 as it was a good day to do it. Raining and a weekend of riding planned thereafter.
Changed to 10w40 Synthetic Yamalube.
Factory oil was very clean.

I store in multiple 55 gallon drums. When 3-4 get filled I call the used oil guy to come pick it up and pay me.

So here's another dumb question - is there a difference between general motor oil, automotive oil and motorcycle oil?? Google tells me no....but I figured I'd ask others just in case :P

There is a difference in the additive package. The problem lies in the wet clutches on motorcycles. The anti-friction additives in automotive oils can cause issues with the clutches. The diesel oil formulas don't have as much (or any) and don't cause issues.

If you have a few hours to learn more about oil than you ever thought existed spend some time at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

If you want to really find out what is going on with your oil try
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/

Well then, glad I asked.
:)

As Spud often says, quality 15W40 diesel oil is ideal, as long as it has CJ-4 certification. I'd use Delvac or Rotella without any concerns.

If you want to learn more about motor oil, I highly recommend the two essays at the following links. Both links are included in the Zongshen RX3 Sticky thread, permanently pinned to the top of this forum. ;)

http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Oils1.html
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Consumables.html

My knowledge of lubricants comes from a who spent 8 years getting educated and 40 years working in a major oil companies research and development lab.

Let me sum it up:

Yes, there are differences. Some no big deal. Some critical. The wrong oil can wipe out your clutch. The wrong oil can wipe out your cam and followers. The wrong oil cam wipe out your valves and adjusting screws. What engine parts are you willing to risk to save a few bucks on an oil change?

Many diesel and auto oils lack sufficient ZDDP to protect the high pressure points in modern 10,000rpm motorcycle engines. Many older trucks with flat tappets are wiping out their cam lobes and lifters due this lack of ZDDP. Special oils are made for older vehicles (classic and antique cars) because oils for modern engines simply don't cut the mustard.

Many diesel and auto oils have additives to increase fuel efficiency by making the oil more slippery. Wet clutches become more slippery, and slip, get hot, and toast themselves.

What it all boils down to is knowing which oils work well and which don't. Some Delvacs and Rotellas are okay, some aren't. Which is which? Hell if I know. Government regulations and engine builders looking for a marketing or cost advantage change oil specifications as often as most people change underwear. It's impossible to keep up, so I quit trying.

So, which oil should you use? Anything with a motorcycle picture on the front and the words "Safe For Use With Wet Clutches" or similar will work. Oh, and look for "10W-40" on the label somewhere. I might consider "5W-30" when riding in really cold weather, or "20W-50" when heading out into the desert when the highs are going to be at or near 100*F. The exception would be V-Twin oils, almost all of which are 20W-50, and a few are not safe for wet clutches, since Harleys are not single sump.

As far as dino vs. synthetic base, well, depends on the synthetic. Most consumer synthetics these days are not synthetic at all, but common dino bases with the sulfur removed. This legal mumbo jumbo over what constitutes a synthetic oil (thanks Shell, you pricks) confuses the discussion to no end. As far as I'm concerned, if it isn't an ester based synthetic, it is dino oil. Maybe a high quality dino oil, but still a dino oil that lacks the engineering finesse and molecular consistency to be tuned for specific requirements, instead relying on significant portions of additives that wear out long before the base oils they are added to, rendering the product unable to protect your engine much quicker than most people think.

As for me, I'll continue to run true ester based synthetics selected especially for each engine's specific requirements and change at intervals double what the manufacturer recommends. I'm still well stocked with Mobil 1 Racing 4T and V-Twin early formulations so that is what will go in the Cyclone when the time comes. Until the time comes, I'll be using Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil in 10W-40 for break in. If you don't know any better, I'd stick with the Valvoline 4-Stroke. It's cheap, available at most auto parts stores and Walmart, and protects well.

You can't go wrong if you choose an oil with the rating JASO-MA. It's specifically designed for motorcycles with wet clutches, like our RX-3. The latest iteration is JASO-MA2 and you'll find that on motorcycle specific brands, but you'll be OK using Rotella car oil that has the JASO rating.

I use Mobil, Delvac 15W/40 in my Zongshen ZS200GY-2, and it now has over 69,000 miles on the odometer. Therefore, I am not inclined to switch. ;) In fact, I use the same motor oil in all my motorcycles, including my Honda CRF250X, which will rev to 12,000 rpms. The camshaft, rockers, et cetera, are in excellent condition. :) However, people can choose any quality motor oil of the appropriate weight which is safe for wet clutches in the RX3 engine. The most important thing is to change the engine oil frequently.

Rotella is not car oil. Any oil for modern cars will quickly waste your cam and followers and trash your clutch. Rotella is commercial truck oil. Think Freightliner and Kenworth and Smokey and the Bandit. Rotella is about the best dino oil on the market for commercial trucks (works great in smaller diesel trucks, too!). When it comes to commercial motor oils, Rotella is a darn good 10. Yup, 10 different Rotella engine oils are available. Better get the right one because the wrong choice can and will put your motorcycle at high risk of failure.

Spudrider, total miles don't mean much after how many rebuilds? Really, get 50k+ out of an original top end, with nothing but routine maintenance, only to allow someone who should know better borrow the bike and run it down the highway for three days until it locked up from the oil pumping out. Poor Tdub. I know of three other TWs that went over 50k on their original parts, nothing changed except carb jets and spark plugs. All three did break in with Valvoline, long lives with Mobil 1, Royal Purple, or Amsoil (all ester based synthetics). Two are still going since there owners know how to say "NO!" One got XT225 engine internal and trans when the original started that darned base gasket leak at 62K.

I've rebuilt a couple dozen small Yamahas at 35-45k that were treated to the correct Rotellas and or Delos, and suffered loose valve guides, trashed cam races in the head, and significant ring groove in the cylinder, but not much evidence of excessive wear on the cam lobes, followers, valve stem ends, or adjusting screws. As far as dino oils go, the correct Rotellas and Delos are just as good as the name brand motorcycle specific dinos, and far exceed the off brands. But they are not synthetics and suffer the same shearing of their additives in the transmission and associated degradation of protection as any other dino oil.

Walmart has Valvoline 4-Stroke in quarts for about the same price per volume as Rotella T3 in gallons. I checked today stocking up for my Cyclone's break in.

That's why I was very specific in stating that you get the Rotella with the JASO rating.

Total miles also don't mean much if a bike is babied, either. My Zongshen Sierra has been ridden hard for over 69,000 miles, and that has to count for something. ;) However, I certainly understand your preference for synthetic oils.

Thanks for posting the good tip. :) Valvoline is excellent motor oil, and the price for the Valvoline 4-Stroke Motorcycle Oil is very competitive. :tup:

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Valvoline-...e-Oil/16879749

http://i5.walmartimages.com/dfw/dce0...5b56765.v1.jpg

You gents are a wealth of information and I appreciate all the fine details :) thank you for taking the time to share!

TurboT and I found that this Valvoline product turned black and seemed to lose all viscosity well within 10 hours of riding time on our quads. A switch to Rotella had the colour and texture where we thought it should be at 10 hours. YMMV.

:wtf:

Thank you letting us know about this problem, Weld. :)

yikes. right now I have the oil recommended/sold by CSC on hand - that's whats going in it at the first oil change, but figured I should lay in some other oil for subsequent changes. I guess it won't be that Valvoline Product!

Nobody I know babies their motorcycles. Most are fat old farts like me who are too stupid to know when to quit. Tdub has done SS1000s, BB 1500s, 112*F desert days, two of the tallest peaks in Colorado, Death Valley, -35* Canadian ice roads in the winter, and a horde of other stupid stuff, and still went over 50k on her original top end. She was still running fine after being run out of oil, locked up, then refilled, restarted, and ridden ~330 smokey miles home. Yamaha builds some tough engines, almost as tough as Honda's CT90, which run fine with fry grease in the case from what I hear.

Valvoline makes an ATV oil for a reason. Quad service is generally way more severe than motorcycle service. You were using the wrong oil for the job. Not surprised you had a problem.

I know lots of people who baby their motorcycles. :hehe: I'm glad you're not one of them. ;)

If you don't like the 15W/40 diesel oils, you could keep yourself quite busy spreading your gospel on just about every other motorcycle forum. If you haven't done so, just go to ADVRider.com, Thumpertalk.com, or a host of other places and search 'rotella.' ;) Many motorcycle owners have been using these oils very successfully for millions of miles on many different kinds of motorcycles. As with you, I am sure many of them don't baby their motorcycles, either. ;)

Weldangrind is a very knowledgeable, and a very polite person. I'm sure he knows how to select motor oils, and doesn't deserve any condescending advice. I doubt the application was so terribly different to yield such unsatisfactory results. Maybe he got a bad batch of oil, I don't know. :shrug: Even Valvoline can make mistakes; nobody is perfect.

Well, since you can't win the personal attacks begin. Been there before. Good bye. I don't need your crap.

Not done many miles on my RX3 yet 180 in all just commuting and noticed oil level steadily rising....just siphoned 300ml off to bring it down to the max and it stunk of petrol :-(
So I've changed the oil completely and used Shells Advance X7 same as I use in my other bikes. The engine and especially the clutch sounds sweet again they were starting to rattle :-( Thin diluted oil no doubt.....

Hey Vic,

I finally got around to fitting a new injector. Will let you know in the coming weeks if it resolves this "oil level rising" problem.

Also I'm trying to blast my bike as much as I can. I read somewhere that being too gentle when running the bike in can create a glazed bore, leading to a poor piston ring seal.

Don't know if this is true or not but thought it worth a try, as I have done 1800 miles, it can't hurt :)

Look forward to hearing your results Katflap, I was keeping under 4500rpm when I first had the bike but using all the revs now and does run better... See how my oil level goes now I've put fresh oil in... Still to try a drop of two stroke oil in the fuel but considering your thoughts on how it might affect the injector.

GAH!
hit 200 mi today and have been stuck in the garage trying to do my first oil change.
Took the bash plate off to facilitate access...

the 17mm bolts for the oil screens are lodged to the point where nothing I've tried will get them off - it doesnt help that I have to use an extender to access them, so the socket keeps popping off when I try to really apply force.

Is there some trickery to this?

Also my oil was filthy :( glad I'm changing it at 200mi.

Woodland, sorry if this sounds elementary, buy how old is your socket? Would it help if you invested in a new six point socket? It might provide a better grip and be less likely to pop off. A few bucks for a new tool might save time and further problems.

My oil stainer plugs took a solid push using a breaker bar and an extension. I probably used my 1/2 inch breaker bar, which is a lot easier to hold steady even if you don't need that much additional torque.

Obviously you want to apply force squarely and avoid further "pop offs," since you may be rounding the corners off the fitting. Good luck!

X2 on everything NoVa Rider stated. ;)

A good 17mm socket is a good investment, as is a breaker bar. :)

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-in-d...bar-60819.html

Once you break the strainer nuts free, you won't have a problem with them in the future. You definitely don't need to tighten them as much as they do at the factory. :ohno:

Thanks NoVa Rider & Spud - Socket was new when it touched the bike ;) - the problem was due to the location and the need to use an extender any time I applied torque, the socket would go kindof cockeyed and would pop off - its safe to say the very top edges of the bolt in some places are more rounded than they were :(

Eventually got the suckers loose by tipping the bike over onto its side by propping it on its crash bars on top of some bags of cat litter. Unfortunately when I pulled the first strainer, the oil pan was not in place and it made a hell of a mess on the garage floor. *sigh* I was not anticipating quite that much oil to still be inside after having drained it through the drain plug and the oil filter housing.

Don't worry; you will do a cleaner job next time. ;)

Indeed, the engine holds a surprisingly large amount of oil, which is very good. :tup: Removing the drain plug probably drains the 'gearbox' oil reservoir, which houses the oil sight glass. Removing the oil strainer bolt on the left side of the engine drains the oil sump in the bottom of the crankcase. Removing the oil strainer bolt on the right side of the engine probably drains the oil which feeds from the 'gearbox' oil reservoir to the oil filter, and/or the oil which was being sent to the crankshaft and the cylinder head. :) It is very good for such a small, water cooled engine to contain 1.7 quarts of motor oil. :tup:

Sprite, experience is the best teacher and this is a great bike to learn on. Not too much electronics and a dealer and support group that loves to help. Besides, it's not a real garage until you spill some oil on the slab.

Agree completely :) Good Job Sprite! Glad to see you're getting into the "Self Maintenance" with your RX-3 :)

I wasn't too worried about the oil change - I'm significantly more concerned about the 500 mile valve check - the idea of plucking the gas tank off and moving radiators about....

It'll get done one way or another, but I have a feeling it's going to be another sweltering experience in the garage even with fans going!

back to the oil change bit - I filled the tank with dino oil (the stuff CSC sells) - and I have 8 oz left from the 2 qts I bought - It seems people switch over to synthetic or a syn blend - OR switch to whatever oil they prefer in their bikes. Is it worth keeping that 8 ounces around if I intend to switch to a different oil? (I haven't decided yet - and it seems the weights on the bottle don't necessarily really mean that one 10w40 oil will be an exact match for another with the same weight so mixing is likely not advised)

I'd keep it in case you need to top it off before the next oil change. ;)

Indeed, you should always have some motor oil available to top off the oil level. :) Also, You can certainly use your remaining oil by adding an ounce or two to whatever oil you finally choose, every subsequent oil change. It's the same as topping off your oil level while traveling; it won't hurt anything. ;)

At the very least, you had cat litter handy to clean up the oil. It does an amazing job.