new hawk 250 issues
Good evening and thanks in advance for any assistance.
I purchased a brand new hawk 250 that arrived yesterday. I paid the extra to have the bike put together by the company selling it so that it was "ready to ride" when arriving. Unfortunately it has problems. First issue: I changed the oil first with some good oil. But there is conflicting instructions. Many people say to add a quart and look to make sure it is in the middle of the sight glass, the manual says to use the dip stick. I am confused as to which to use. If it is to be at the middle of the sight glass I need to add some more oil because I see it in the bottom of the sight glass, but its not in the middle. However the dipstick is about correct. How do I know if I have the right amount of oil? Second issue: Running the bike, it did not want to start. would try to run but would die. I needed to turn on the choke to get it to run. Which automatically when form Full choke to no choke? Does this bike really switch over by itself or was this a fluke? Third issue: This bike smelled awefull!!! it had smoke pouring out of the exhaust. it really smelled bad. like the rubber was melting or something. Why this awerful smell? Fourth: The exhaust pipe off the head turned bright red. I have never seen something like this before. Why is the pipe so hot, and what can I do about it? Fifth: On the exhaust, there is a connector coupling? that connects the pipe from the header to the exhaust pipe. This was really loose and smoke was coming out of it too. How tight is that supposed to be? Sorry for all the noob questions. I really appreciate any assistance. I am good with my hands and tools (residential and commercial maintenance), but never touched vehicles or motorcycles. I so want to ride a bike, but don't have much money and thought this would work out well, now I am scared I'm way over my head. |
Welcome aboard.
#1 Check the oil level while the bike is vertical and not on the kick stand. Half way of the site glass is correct. 1 quart is about right #2 You will need to adjust the idle speed. Big screw on right side of carburetor. Choke is manual. Just a fluke #3 dont panic, This is normal for the 1st time you start it. It's burning off oils and paint in the exhaust. #4 These carburetor are tune very lean from the factory. You will need to rejet and tune the carb. #5 Tighten the clamp up.. You will need to check this often. |
Jerry hit it all, but I will add my 2 cents to the oil level.
Go with the middle of the sight glass, which is right around 1.5 quarts on my 2017 Hawk. I have been running this level of oil for 1800 miles with no issues. :tup: Also, to tighten that exhaust clamp, put a long screwdriver through the hole on the thumb screw to snug it up. Just hand tight will come loose again fairly quickly. Then check it regularly. After a few snug ups it will stop coming loose as often. |
Thanks Dan for clearing that up. I'm trying to type this up on my phone. Lol
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Also, check the valve lash. Doubtful that the assembler set that. Do you know how to accomplish that? If not, we can walk you though it or you can see it on youtube. dude named motocheez.
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oh yeah welcome to here. what part of the world you reside?
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Welcome to the forum! Like pistolclass said, watch MotoCheez videos on YouTube. Keep us posted!
Have a great day! |
Thank you for all your replies. As for the oil, so go to middle of sight glass and forget the dip stick. Do I want middle of the glass while running or idle? (pretty sure its idle, but hey, better to ask) do I run it first to warm it up then check or check it stone cold? (honestly don't got a clue)
How do I adjust the idle screw? while running I imagine, but when do I know its good? when it stays running and not dieing? or am I looking for something else? great to know that its just the smell is normal, was seriously concerned about that.... How do I rejet and tune the carb? Is there a youtube video or a website with instructions? and how soon do I need to do this? I am asking because I get my house in three weeks and it has a garage. Until then I am in the hotel and so limited to what I can do in a parking lot for now (just got stationed back in the good ol USA). If need be I wont turn it on until I get in the house, but if possible, I would love to run it a little, even 20-30 min. but if that will damage, or there is a chance it will, I will wait. What is a valve lash? I have never even heard of that. I am in mid Missouri. Thanks again!! |
Silly question, the glowing red exhaust pipe off the header, if I let it run too long is that going to melt or explode?
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I did a search for valve lash, the guy was measuring the space between the valve, but said it should be done after break in at around 300 miles. Because of the red pipe, should I do that earlier (now)?
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Middle of the sight glass while it is not running (EDIT: With the bike vertical, not on the side stand)
Also, I didn't forget the valve lash. I just wanted to give somebody else a chance to throw forth some knowledge... I swear! :lol: As far as the valve lash. Set it now. That waiting until break in is a bad idea. Why? Because as the engine breaks in the valve stems stretch a bit, so that means less clearance. Your red exhaust pipe and idle/running issues are likely being caused by one or both valves not seating fully. Set the lash on the loose side, sau .004 inch. ntake and exhaust, and after a couple hundred miles check the lash. Adjust if needed, then go another couple hundred and check it again. At that point you can set the lash a bit tighter, minimum is .002inch. I have mine set at .002 intake and .003 exhaust currently. In the hotter months I go to .003 intake and .004 exhaust |
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To adjust the idle turn the screw clockwise to increase and counterclockwise to lower idle. Once it is warmed up you want it to idle at about 1500-1600 rpms. But without a tachometer you will have to play it by ear. You can invest in a digital cluster later on as you will find the stock cluster is way off and the odometer is in kilometers. Another thing that will help with cold startups without having to go out and buying jets is to adjust the idle mixture. To gain access to the idle mixture screw you will need to remove the carburetor and remove the black plastic tamperproof cap. it will be between the bowl and intake manifold. For a good start set it at 1 1/2 turns out. This will improve idle on a cold start. You will also need to shim the needle with 2 small washer. This due to there are not grooves in the stock needle to move the clip to adjust the needle. I know at this point you are probably saying "What the ___ is this guy talking about?" lol Motocheez has a YouTube video that will explain and clear this up. Don't worry, you will get plenty of help around here. No question is a stupid question. We all started somewhere. You will be an expert Hawk Mechanic in no time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34yYWSolKc0 |
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CSC has some great Tutorials on the TT250 which is very similar to the Hawk 250. Here's a link to there site. http://www.cscmotorcycles.com/TT250-Tutorials-s/283.htm FYI the valve adjustment can be done without removing the tank.
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To put a finer point on the oil question, the dipstick is indeed incorrect. Use the sight glass only. I encourage you to follow the guidance that these fine gentlemen have provided. |
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Thank you all for your information. I didn't get off work until late tonight so didn't get much done, but I did purchase a feeler gauge so I can ASAP, and I did correct the oil level, and took another look at the bike. I also rode it up and down the street once just because I soooo wanted to ride it (I'm sure you understand).
I noticed a tick,tick,tick and so started looking the bike over and found 2 more odd things. on the front forks, opposite side of the break there is an oil leak. It looks like its coming from the speedometer?? Does this even have oil? The other thing I noticed, is that the rear wheel is crooked. Not by a whole lot, but it is. The seal on one side of the axel is protruding and not flush, the other side is sunken in. Both side of the rim are the same. And it rotates with the wheel. I think the one protruding seal side hits the frame a little and that's the tick as it rotates. Also the bottom chain guard is bent onto the chain eating it away (probably an easy fix of bending it out so long as it don't break, but I wonder how on earth it ended up like this). |
For adjusting the carb folks have gone a couple of ways. Some crack open the tamper proof screws and shim needles and rejet. Other (myself included) buy a $34 Mukini (it is a total fake but works great) from Ebay and a $12 jet kit and tinker from there. Either way is fine.
The $34 one I bought has groves on the needle so you don't need to shim you just adjust the needle by changing a little washer thingy's position on the needle. Buying it was a little bit of a hedge for me because if I totally boogered up the adjustment on the replacement I could always just put the stock one back in. Without a doubt the most noticeable changes were the valve adjustment and the new/rejetted carb for me. I have a 110 main and the stock 20 pilot in it with the needle set at the lowest (richest) position. I'm 2 turns out on the mixture screw. I realize that my pilot is still a little lean but I'm making up for it with the mixture screw. It is not the textbook way to do it, but my bike really runs good and I don't want to mess with it running so well. BTW I'm completely stock on the Airbox and exhaust. Once you start openning those up you will need more fuel. The valve adjustment really helped the Hawk start up quickly. I had to crank it over longer before it would run, but once the valves are set properly it started much quicker. |
You will have to post a few pictures of the issues so we can help. Sounds like the dealer just through it together and didn't really assemble it. The oil could be from the fork itself. Either the screw on the bottom or from a fork seal. If the seal leaks usually you can pump them a few times and will seat the seals.
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1/2 way on the sight glass and thats not super critical anything from 1/4 to 3/4 will work
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this quite common with stainless steel exhaust pipes Stainless has a lower melting point than steel... and stainless pipes tend to be thinner as stanless is more exspensive than steel.. So thin stainless will glow red if the bike is left running while standing still with no air flow over the pipe.. but i'm not saying your carb is not on the lean side as that would just compound the glowing exhaust issue.. by the way both my yamaha's will make there pipes glow if left to idle for to long... |
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The rear wheel seal being seated poorly is something I ran into on my bike when I first uncrated it. I managed to pop both seals out and save them, but if you do need new seals you can either try to file a warranty claim or pick up some new seals. This requires taking the rear wheel off. Then again, if that wheel seal is hitting the frame, then something is very wrong. Much like the fork issue, a couple of good clear up close pictures would say 1000 words. Take that rear wheel off, and I highly recommend checking for/doing 2 things. 1. Check the rear wheel bearings. Myself and others had poorly installed rear wheel bearings. If you cannot turn those bearings with your finger while they are installed in the wheel, then I suggest replacing them with a good quality pair of bearings. SKF, Nachi, or All Balls Racing. They aren't super expensive, ranging from 5 to 10 bucks a piece. I tried to reseat mine in the hopes of saving them, but the ball bearing cages of mine were bent by the factory installation, and caused them to fail within 800 miles. 2. Check the rear sprocket. First, loosen, and then re-tighten the sprocket nuts. Torque them back down in a diagonal pattern (like a wheel) to around 30-35lb-ft. Next, check for play in the sprocket. If that sprocket wiggles around between the snap ring that retains it, and the hub behind it, then I have a post on here covering this issue. To summarize that post here, I put very small, thin, wave washers on the back side of the sprocket between it and the face of the studs. With the wave washers in place, secure the nuts again with a dab of blue loctite on each. Here is the previously mentioned Post. http://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=19265 Honestly, at this point I would highly recommend that you go through your bike and check everything. Pick yourself of a small bottle of Loctite 242 or 243 (blue, easily found at parts stores). Go over every bolt on this bike, put a dab of loctite on them, and tighten down again. I also recommend removing the rear swing arm when you take the wheel off and greasing not only the bolt that goes through it, but get some grease inside the pivots of said swing arm. This will extend the life of those bushings quite a bit. Don't forget to loctite the rear shock nuts and bolts when putting them back on. Also, search about chain guide fixes. This is another notorious little issue for most owners, and easily solved. I know this might be annoying, or even a little frustrating. You had somebody else assemble it, so you would think they did all of this for you, but the reality is they usually slap them together in a few hours and call them good to go. By comparison, I spent no less than 12 hours putting my bike together. I tore it down to frame and engine. Greased all of the axles, pivot points, and even the head stock bearings. I Drained, flushed, and re-filled the front forks with fork oil, flushed and bled the front and rear brakes with new brake fluid, check all of my wheel bearings - correcting the rear. Set up the carb., put antiseize on my exhaust studs and installed them back into the head, etc. I even re-routed the wiring harness in a few places, including the rear brake switch wires to keep them from melting from the exhaust, put dielectric grease on most of the electrical connectors to try and seal out water, and sprayed my battery terminal and ground strap terminals with anti-corrosion spray. Then when I re-assembled it, I attacked every bolt with Loctite. Especially critical fasteners like brake caliper mounting bolts, rear sprocket nuts and the shock bolts (as previously mentioned) and even the engine mount bolts. I also took both wheels and checked them for trueness and then tightened the spokes - something I HIGHLY recommend doing, as all of mine were not tightened down very well. It's a lot of work, but trust me when I say that if you spend this time and effort now going over everything, you will not only save yourself headaches down the road, but also literally save yourself from a potential disaster. There is a reason these bikes are cheap. While they are generally decent out of the crate, they really require this kind of attention to be GOOD. |
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Good morning, you all are awesome to take the time to help out.
The rear wheel is hard to take pictures that get what I am talking about, but it seems you already understand which is a sigh of relief because I didn't understand how on earth to describe it. As for the ticking, I couldn't see where it was hitting, but did notice marks on the side of the wheel and so am wondering. Of course I guess it could have been the chain rubbing, but the chain seems to rub uniformly so maybe not? Please take a look at the attached pictures and maybe they can tell you more than I could explain. I will check the sprocket and search for chain guide fixes when I get home from work tonight. |
Seals are defiantly in crooked. The chain guard mount just needs to be bent back in place. Follow the advise of Megadan, This is why I got mine unassembled so I could go through everything as I put it together. One word of advise on the stock chain. Take it off and clean it then soak it in a synthetic gear oil. Lots on here claim these chains are junk. But there not. The manufacture use very littler grease and lubricant. I have over 2000 miles on the stock chain with very little stretch. Still within spec. As Megadan stated, pull apart and grease axles and swing arm bolt. Me personally I would request a refund on the so called assembly. When I bought my bike it came with free assembly and I told them not to assemble it. It would of only delayed the shipment and I didn't want to wait. lol
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As far as that lower chain guard goes, I agree with Jerry. The mount tabs simply look bent. Likely they got bent inward during shipping or assembly, but you can gently bend those back straight. That should get the guard off of the chain.
The wheel seals look exactly like mine did. If you take the wheel off, you can use a pair of flathead screwdrivers and patiently try to push them out from the inside. Put the head through the hole of the seal and try to get it under the back side of the seal edge and pry up. At minuum you can work the seals until they are even in their respective holes. As far as hitting the frame, it doesn't look like it to me, but the right side definitely looks like it gets close to the brake caliper bracket/axle spacer. This side has less room than the left side with the sprocket by nature, so it's not a bit deal. |
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Thanks for all the information guys, it looks like I got my work cut out for me. To be honest, this could be fun if I had a garage to do it in (I will in 2 weeks, I'm so excited). But not today, today is my sons birthday so I got to spend some time with him. I'll start looking into getting the parts and figuring out how to remove the wheel and chain tomorrow.
I did bend back the chain guard, and sprayed a healthy coat of chain greese on the chain. After which I couldn't help myself but took it for a ride up and down the street yesterday (put like 1 mile on the bike during 3/4 trips to the corner of the street and back). I will take your advise (that's the reason I was asking) and will either dip the chain into oil if I can find some, or purchase a new chain if the price is negligibly different. Just sprayed it with oil now because I had already bought some and have not taken the wheel off yet. I did notice two more things, the idle is sporadic, it revs high and then the next time you come to a pause from running a little it almost dies without any consistency after running for a while and being warmed up. during cold it is hard to keep running, but then afterwards when it is warmed it either revs really high, or really low. giving it extra gas to see if the idle will set at a more neutral place does nothing. but it you ride it for a minute and come back it will be the opposite most likely, then next time you move it and come back it will be the opposite side, sometimes (like once) it idled where I thought it should after moving it. Turning the idle screw on the carbarator will adjust it, but that does not help if the next time it is idling at opposite because now it is worse on the opposite end. The front tire originally it had oil under the speedometer sensor next to the wheel. I wondered where it was from but wiped it off because surely the sensor doesn't have oil in it right?? but then when checking it again it I found more. It is dark brown oil (not grease) and looks like it is coming from the open space right next to the speedometer sensor (opposite the front brake) where I would imagine the front wheel bearings are located inside. Its a space between the tire and the axel. I will get pictures and upload them. Also, I checked the rear sprocket, you are correct, it wiggles. Not really really loose, but it does. the odd thing about that is that the screws seem to wiggle with it too. I also checked the chain guide, it is rubber and seems to be in the place it is supposed to be. BUT, the chain rides directly on top of it. I can see how this may not last long as I imagine that chain would eat up that guide pretty quickly once the bike is actually being used. I will get pictures for you and post them. I hope you all are having a great weekend!! |
regarding the rear wheel seal, is this the seal or a bearing? if I am going to the trouble to remove the wheel to straighten this thing, is it better to replace it with a racing one? or at least a new one? or should it do fine just to straighten this one?
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Sporadic/unstable idle speed is a condition of idle mixture either being too lean or too rich. As ARH mentioned, if the throttle operates correctly, then this is most likely your culprit. These bikes don't come tuned very well from the factory unless you live at high altitude, and tend to be on the lean side of things. This will cause the idle to "hover" at higher RPM's when coming off the throttle, and then it will eventually drop, and then proceed to hunt trying to equilize.
The standard approach to setting your idle mixture screw is to turn the screw in, and count the number of turns or half turns until it just lightly seats/stops. Make a note of that somewhere just in case you need a known "running" starting point. From there, 1. turn the idle screw out 1 1/2 turns. This is the middle ground between 0 turns and 3. Install the carb back on the bike. 2. start the bike, then ride it around for say 10-ish minutes and get it up to temp. bring it back home. 3. set your idle speed, preferably with a tach to 1500 rpm 4. This is the tricky part because of where our idle mixture screws are located, but it is doable. a) turn the pilot screw out a half turn at a time until you hear the idle drop. During this procedure you may hear the RPM's rise, this is a good thing. Keep turning half a turn at a time until you notice the rpms drop. b) Turn the mixture screw back in a half a turn at a time until you find the position with the highest and most stable RPM. c) Re-adjust the idle if necessary back to where you started. If the idle is stable at this point you can call it good. If it is still a bit unsteady you can repeat this process by turning the mixture screw a quarter of a turn in or out at a time (giving the idle a chance to stabilize) until you again find the highest and most stable rpm. d) At this point you should have a good stable idle. You can go into even finer tuning if you desire, giving the screw 1/8th turns, but this usually isn't necessary on most bikes/carb setups. The key in this entire process is to always keep a note of how many turns you have on that mixture screw. I.E.: If you start at 1 1/2 turns, and turn it out 1/2 a turn and the idle drops, you are at 2 turns out. Back it off half a turn, you are back to 1 1/2 turns. Also, this is just one method, and there are variations of this method out there, but the end results are very similar. 2 things to keep in mind if you want to go through all of this. 1, it's a good idea to have a fan flowing on the engine to help keep it cool. If you feel the engine may be getting too hot, shut it off for a few minutes or so and let it cool. Just don't let it get cold, or you will have to wait for it to warm up again. 2. Before you dive in head first with all of this, see how it simply runs at 1 1/2 turns out. You may find that it holds a steady idle right where it is. There are many Hawk owners that have simply set the stock carb to this position and it has worked for them with no need for further adjustment. |
Ok, time to get busy on this. I got some gear oil to soak the chain, I think. On the bottle it says gear lubricant 75W-90 by supertech. Is this the correct oil? If not I can always return to Walmart as its not opened. I was looking at changing the chain to be safe, but can not find it. I did find a site that had something called a 428SO-130 but they were no longer selling it. What is an o-ring chain? and is that recommended for this bike in comparison to what is already installed?
For $34 the mikuni sounds the way to go. I found one from the hawk250.com site. If the 1.5 turn doesn't work out well, I will order one and go from there. I'm thinking if good rear bearings are only like $10 I am going to go ahead and change them rather than risk it. What bearings would be good to put in here? (how do I know it will fit? is there a recommended part number? size? etc) For greasing the pivots/swing arm, do I need a special grease gun? what grease do I use, WalMart had several different types. (Multi-duty, general purpose, poly lithium, marine, etc). they also had hi-temp in a round tub. Megadan, the screw you are talking about, is it inside the carborator? I think I want to try this 1.5 turn prior to changing the carb. Do I need to remove the carb to do it? anything to be careful of while doing this? As for the assembly fee, I tried and asked for a refund but that didn't work so well. I didn't think it would because after receiving this bike, I first called the seller with the questions. The lady who answered the phone was nice, the shop manager was nasty. The lady asked me to send pictures, I sent those I sent to this site and a few more, and then the shop manager called me back. Rather than assisting, he berated me. His answer from the get go, (before even asking me what was wrong) was " It was in perfect shape when it left here so you broke it not us". I had to listen to his ranting about people like me always trying to get more and never be happy for like 15 minutes before I could even say (do you even know what's wrong with the bike and the reason I called?). It's even supposed to have a warranty from this company, good luck with that! Kept referring to it's people like me who always want more, and those that pay 1900-2000 for this bike never had problems. I should have paid more, etc. reminding him that it is 1399 on his web site and I did pay more than that did nothing to ease his criticism. But that's a story for another time. |
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On the bearings, any way to find the size without ripping it apart so that I can order it and have it on hand prior to ripping it apart? I don't want to leave a half assembled bike in the parking lot.
As for the chain, I did a search for uni-bear chains, and found two things. the first is that unibear is made by a chinese company named Hangzhou, the second is that there is the 428H or the 530. The 428H looks to be the non-o ring type. They are all different link numbers though. I am guessing that is the size? I saw where someone had recommend the 428H 130 link but I can't find one of those. The closest I could find was the 132 link. I also found a 136. How do I know what size I need? They are very cheap though, like $15 for the 428H. If I get one of these, do I need to do the Kerosene/hot oil cooking? or do they need it as well? |
428h 130 link is what you need. You can get longer and cut it to the length you need.
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anyone have any tips on how to re-route the clutch cable so it doesn't get pinched when turning? that and the speedometer cable which looks like its gonna get tangled in the horn?
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Rear bearings are 6302-2rs. :tup:
If you go to Hawk Talk, page 60, bottom post. Wamey linked to both front and rear bearings on All Balls Racing. You can either order 2 there, or take those numbers to any place that carries bearings and get them that way. |
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