Direct Ignition Coil
 

Sunday while adjusting the valves and rejetting my carb I noticed that the insulations on the plug wire was cracked. I'm thinking about just changing out the coil and coil wire to a Direct ignition coil.
What do you guys think? I think it would be a better setup and would be a big improvement to the ignition system. I've been thinking about doing this for a while.

There's a universal kit but seems to be over priced and very poorly made.
https://www.amazon.com/NCY-0900-1075...KAZ7ZSYV2T1AHK

That idea hadn't occurred to me before. I'll definitely be watching for your results, if you move forward.

Would love to see how this turns out! Great Idea.

It looks like any two wire direct ignition coil should work. I just need to physically put my hands on one and find one that isn't to long. I may just go down to the wrecker yard and pull one just to try out. I think the v6 Fords used a two wire coil.

I replaced the intake on my brothers 2001 ford 4.8 V8 and they had stout looking ones also! Probably easy to find. :tup:

It is an interesting idea. I plan on replacing the stock coil with a high output 3 wire cdi coil. The third wire being a ground to the head for the primary windings.

I replaced the plug wire but would like to just eliminate the plug wire completely. One less thing to worry about. It would be interesting to see how the high output 3 wire cdi coil works out too.

They break spark plugs. These on autos have the tube running down inside the valve cover that the coil sits in to brace it from vibrations. Something will need to be made up to prevent movement of the coil on the plug but it can't be too rigid either.

already thought about that. I would make a support bracket back to one of the valve cover bolts.

Then you, my friend, have it covered. :tup:

I had considered them on my GS. The spark plugs stick out of the sides of the head at an angle and would need considerable support. Plus they would be ugly and gaudy.

There's always the cheap DIY plasma ignition. A lot of vids on making the small simple circuits on youtube.

Here's an example.
https://youtu.be/HlfFan-Yy88

A google pic of the top of a GS engine. See where the spark plugs are? That'd be a hard spot to do coil on plug.
https://gs500resurrection.files.word...5/dsc00803.jpg

Now that's a hot spark. :tup:

If you can get one to fit they are amazing!

Been running a Denso 2 wire setup since the second ride on the China Bike :clap:

You're the reason I was looking into it. lol. I'm trying to find one that will be shorter. From what I've found so far it looks like one from a 4 cylinder Ford Focus will work.
https://www.amazon.com/Ignition-Tran...+ignition+coil

Good find. Those aren't as crazy expensive as some others.

The connector for it cost more than the coil itself. :hmm: Go figure lol

:ohno:

Does it have standard spade connectors on the coil? Most all of my bikes have standard .195 and .250 spade connectors on the coils and I rarely have problems with corrosion on them. I would use the proper connector on those COP coils.

It has round pin connectors.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....L._SL1500_.jpg

Coils in general tend to be expensive. It might be worth hitting up the pick-a-part to get a coil and connector for a better price.

You can always spring for an AEM CDI Pencil coil (30-2854). $80 on Amazon as a complete kit with connector, pins, and seals. $71 through Summit plus shipping.

This is the coil I am waiting for in the mail. It alone is $48, and another $7 for the connector kit. https://www.diyautotune.com/product/...ischarge-coil/

I took an extra day off this weekend, so I am hoping to squeeze in my ignition pickup advance experiment so I can give that a test before I go trying to hot rod my ignition coil.

Just ordered the coil and connector for under $19 from amazon. Should have it for Saturday. I plan on the ignition pickup advance experiment myself. :tup:

This a slight bit off topic. All this coil talk is going to help me out on an upcoming project.

I know there are a few companies that put out high output coils spec'd for bikes that put out more than 30,000 volts to the spark plug. Accel is the main one or most popular, I think. If I'm not mistaken, most Japanese bike coils put out 10,000 to 15,000 volts. The high compression FI bikes might be 20-25,000 volts. The spark plug wire(s) are the common failure point on most bike coils. If my V Star coil wires fail, I'm screwed as they are connected internally to the coil. The wire is not replaceable. When I do all the mods to my V Star, I'll have to use an aftermarket coils. COP coils aren't an option so I'm stuck with aftermarket coils. I think I'll need at least 30,000-volt coils on the V Star when I'm done.

I am waiting for the results of your experiment with ignition advance with great anticipation. The next step in power production from this engine will be achieved with variable ignition timing. I know how to do this mechanically, but not electronically. There should be a way to control the timing of the condenser discharge electronically. Maybe to delay condenser discharge at starting and idle, and gradually reduce the delay until 3500-4000 rpm when the delay has been reduced to zero...ARH :wtf:

will this hot spark idea be significantly better than simply changing the plug(s) to brisk brand? i havent come across a plug that made a noticable difference in my projects until i was introduced to a brisk plug. i could tell the increased power, no misfires in any rpm range, and durability at the very moment i fired my first one up.

What plug did you go with? Brisk sell a few different types.

my last three were for a 125cc lifan:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

prior to that is was for the 250 hawk:
cant find link now. magnum tuning is helpful in email or phone to cross reference for you. don't trust forums for cross reference with brisk plugs.

prior to that was for a bmw 3 series.
i swear by it....these alone will make a difference behind the wheel or handlebars....if you do this mod first you will notice the power increase, maybe not so much if its the last mod you do, but since its a huge noticeably stronger engine upgrade from stock setup.....i am hooked

Thanks. I cross reference the ngk on there website. It should be this one. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00NAGWVT4...v_ov_lig_dp_it

just a note:
when i got mine in, i placed the china stock torch brand next to the brisk.
i noticed the brisk would end up intruding the hole deeper into the chamber, it was just a little longer but worked perfect. i guess they are supposed to be longer for the technology to work. it wasnt a mile longer but just enough to make me pay attention to not bottom out on something in the cylinder....i am just mentioning this if anyone re-thinks inserting this into the cylinder head... it is supposed to be a smidgen longer than stock. well at least in my projects....sorry if i hijacked the plasma fire here.....i am sure plasma is better , but how much better....

The stock cdi timing curve already has a gradual timing advance from 1500 to 4000rpm. All I am looking to dois advance the pickup a couple of degrees to shift the whole curve up.

There is a programmable CDI out there. That's another project somewhere down the road. Can't do all the mods at once. I need to spread them out to keep me occupied on the rainy weekends. :hehe:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Digi...234642130.html

That's one of the things I really appreciated about the early Honda XR200 motors; they had a centrifugal advance mechanism and CDI that was quite similar to the small black Chev design of 1974 to 1986.

Maybe next year lol. Free mods are the best mods

I understood that the built in timing advance was only capable of a very small amount of advance. I have been given to understand that initial timing is already set at 14 degrees before TDC. I would think that any more static advance would create starter motor problems. One thing I can think of to get around that problem would be to let the electric starter bring the engine up to starting speed with the ignition off at the red switch. Then when the engine reaches maximum rpm on the starter, push the other red switch. If that works, but is awkward, put a push button magneto grounding switch on the left handlebar....ARH :wtf:

We aren't talking enough advance to really put any actual strain on the starter. If the idle/start ignition timing is 14*BTDC, with the peak advance being 26*BTDC(est)@4000rpm, and I manage to advance the pickup say 2 degrees, then we are talking 16*BTDC starting/idle with 28* at 4000rpm.

Considering most of the "performance" CDI units on the market have zero idle/start ignition retard built into them, they have the engines kicking over with 26 degrees of advance just to start, which is why they are such a pain in the rear end to cold start.

My modified head on the other hand... that will definitely make my starter cry a little bit. I calculated out my compression at 10.3:1 That might do a number on it lol.

The pickup advance modification is more of just an experiment to see if I can coax a little more pep in it's step in the middle of the power curve. Since I only plan to slot the bracket holes in the direction needed to advance it, I can always take it back to the factory position if needed. I do plan on eventually tossing on a programmable CDI though, as full control over the whole curve would be wonderful.

That's why I love this forum, about the time I thought It thru a couple of of you guys get on here and blow me out of the water with the depth you guys have taken it and the overall knowledge you hold.

I like most of us, I do a slightly under the surface check, say "it should work!" and then hook it up and see if it explodes.

And sometimes it does!:doh:

On the engines I have had experience with, 28 degrees of advance is what you need at 2000-2500rpm, on its way up the rpm scale. 37-40 degrees maximum advance is where you want to end up. You either find the maximum advance on a dyno, or top speed runs in high gear. To amuse the younger set, I had an airplane with a Franklin 6 engine. It had Edison-Splitdorf magnetos that had an impulse coupling that delayed the magneto 35 degrees at start up until 7-800 rpm. Then the flyball governer kicked out the impulse coupling, and ignition timing went directly to 37 degrees advance. Understand that it delayed the entire magneto, not just the breaker points. Delaying ignition the easy way (points) causes hard starting because a magneto's EMF pulsates in varius areas around the core. The breaker points are timed to the period of maximum electronic pulse in order to get a very hot spark. That's probally more than you want to know about magnetos, even though the Hawk has one...ARH :crazy:

The ignition advance on these engines is extremely conservative.

I did pull the stator cover today to look into advancing the pickup, but decided to revisit it once my VFR is back on the road.

Since the stator and pickup are bolted to the cover itself, the mount for the pickup is essentially dowel pinned in place, with the dowels themselves being a part of the pickup bracket. It makes sense that it was done this way since there is no way to set or adjust the gap.

I have a plan in my head for how to achieve it, but I want to wait until I can afford to have my Hawk down just in case I break the pickup lol. There is a lot of room for the pickup to slide on the bracket, so if the bracket can be freed up from the pickup housing, it can be slid over. There is a lot of room to work with in that regard.

Or I may just drop the coin on the programmable CDI by that point.

I got the coil in Saturday but not the connector. Should be here today. First off it is too long and will hit the tank but I think I can cut the boot and spring down enough so that it will clear the tank. So I guess that will be next weekends project.

Dan, I'll wait and see how your experiment goes. I think the programmable CDI would probably be the best way to go but if you can gain a little extra power with a Free mod, I'm all in for that. lol

Installed
 

Look what I got accomplished today. I had to cut the boot and spring. I removed the old coil and wire. I made a bracket from one of the clamps that came with the oil cooler. I soldered the wire and heat shrink the connection. Turned on the ignition and she fired right up. First thing I noticed is it idled smoother on a cold start. I assuming it's putting out a hotter spark. I haven't taken it out on the road yet. I'll do that this afternoon if the rain holds off.

Awesomeness Jerry!

Thanks, I just took it out for a test run. Definitely feels stronger.:tup: I think my old coil was on its way out. Last two rides I made the engine cut out briefly and only did it once each time. It did this while just cruising and not under a load. :hmm: had me puzzled.