New member in Ohio. Convince me to buy Chinese please.
 

I've been looking over these Chinese bikes for months and I'm certain that they offer the lowest initial cost of entry into new small bikes. Mods money goes pretty quick with any brand and these Chinese bikes are no different, especially if you can find reliable and quality parts for them.

The Hawk DLX is my prime interest for now, the EFI and ECM are probably worth the extra $500 but I still fear the undeniable poor quality of Chinese products. I've tried to get some specifics on the bike from a Texas distributor but get only sales hype with poor spelling and deplorable grammar.
I have joined this forum with the hope that I will be able to get some straight answers from actual owners. I look forward to having informative discussions regarding the pros and cons of owning a Chinese motorcycle.
My days of hard riding in harsh environments are long gone, I'm looking for an 80/20 street/trails machine for fair weather commuting and weekend fun.
:thanks:

I've only dealt with CSC. I have a TT250 and an RX3. Can't go wrong with them but they are pricier than a hawk. Lots of knowledgeable folks here and I'm sure someone with first hand experience will chime in.

Here's one of my biggest gripes:
The rear brake cylinder hangs down below the frame. This not only lowers the overall clearance but is going to be the main impact point when clearance is exceeded. I watched a youtube vid and the frustration of the poor guy trying to keep up was not good advertising for these bikes.
Has anyone addressed a possible mod to get rear brake components above the frame?

Great picture! I'm surprised it's just a Magician and not Uncle Sam! The fact is, even those of us riding other brands, are riding Chinese made bikes.

Welcome aboard! I've own my Hawk for 3 years and have just over 7500 mile on it now. It's been a good reliable bike. The EFI and ECU will be a plus if you don't have any tuning skills and just want to put gas and go. Read the sticky Hawk resource Guide at the top of the Dual Sport section. It will fill you in on what you need to look out for and how to prep your bike to make it more dependable. Routine maintenance will make these bikes last a long time. Mine lasted a lot longer than I initially thought it would. Have a Chinese ATV that 5 years old and only changes a battery and brake pads on it. Don't believe what the china bike haters say. Buy it and enjoy it for half the price the haters paid. :hehe: As far as the rear brake hanging to low I haven't had any issue with it and done a good bit of off roading with it. I do have a skid plate the does protect it so it hasn't been an issue.

Thanks for sharing some of your positive experience and pointing me toward the Resource Guide.


I'm not considering the EFI and EMC/ECU as "Upgrades for Dummies". The future of every internal combustion engine is EFI, the proof is in the automobile industry. The EPA has all but killed off 2 strokes and, muffled and choked our 4 strokes until you have to increase displacement to make up for the power loss attributed to the emissions equipment. EFI just might make it possible to bring back the powerful 2 stroke engines.


Speaking of haters, of which I was not, I was there when the Japanese bikes were hatefully called "rice burners" and to ride one was unpopular in any community. I believe Japanese bikes are now "King" of reliable motorcycles and, Chinese manufacturers are consistent in their "disposable planet" business model, and their bikes are no exception.



I've chosen to consider the Hawk DLX for its progressive response to the oppressive EPA standards that have stifled development of bikes by other manufacturers. As I have stated already, my attempts to find answers regarding the build quality have been glossed over with sales hype "EVERYTHING is BETTER" and the specifics are largely ignored. I realize the DLX is very new to the market and few will have much experience to share at this point.



I'll be posting questions, I hope they prompt more than a "Just BUY IT" response.



Thanks again for the welcome message, hope to be talking with all of you about the fun and excitement this sport is for me. I may even chime in on some of the technical questions, I am an accomplished mechanic, fabricator and, electronics technician.

Have you looked at the Lifan Xpect? Higher quality and backed up by 2 year warrany and support here in the US. https://www.shopapmc.com/New-America...ded_p_116.html

As an accomplished mechanic, fabricator, and electronics tech you wont have any trouble fixing any of the Chinese bikes. Generally the CG engines are bullet proof but many other parts of the bikes take a little TLC.

if you are looking for something to abuse in the dirt, this is not the right course. these bikes will not hold up to as much abuse as japanese bikes do. if you plan light trail riding, forest service road riding, and some paved back roads to get there and back, then it's a terrific option. The only weak point I found was with my swingarm pivot. it wore out pretty quick for me. I did not do any repairs before selling mine. I expect it could be remedied though.

these bikes are for tinkerers. they are not push-button-and-go types of bikes.

Can you expand on what you mean by higher quality?
 

Thanks for the link, yes I've seen these also. All the Chinese imports, for the last 13 years it seems, use the same CG engine, that's great. The engine is probably the least of my worries. The overall design of the bike for utility, comfort and, safety is my focus when inquiring about owner experience.

The Lifan Xpect is on sale right now, maybe a new model just around the corner?
Because I plan to use this as a commuter, I'm forced to buy a minimum 250cc to avoid some regional highway restrictions. So I looked at their flagship 250. While the rear brake parts still hang down below the frame, at least the front brake line doesn't loop in front of the fork like the new CSC. Bump a rock, cut a front line! Hop a log, bend the rear linkage! Really? If I can't stop it, I'd be crazy to start it.

A plumbers pipes leak. A mechanics car never runs right.
 

I do use the logic that my abilities to diagnose and repair can justify buying the least expensive and thereby least reliable, however, when it comes to my toys I get pretty picky.
I don't doubt my ability to care for the machine, I enjoy working on them. I do prefer to initiate that TLC on my terms and not on the side of the highway!

The DLX 250 isn't a true 250cc, and depending on the speeds you're hoping to maintain, it might be better to look at another brand, perhaps GPX? They're Chinese made, but they seem to use top shelf stuff, and they have an air cooled dirt bike that is a true 250, and also a liquid cooled 250 that's fuel injected, if a bit pricier, which has the same motor as the RX3. They're twice the bike of anything Japanese offered at the same price point: https://gpxmoto.com/

Enduro. You mean me or the bike? I'm mostly over that!
 

Hey, thanks for the tips. A tinkerer I am, will always be, can't change that ... My days of hard rides and wearing down mountains while thrashing machines are behind me. I've owned and/or ridden most all the brands/sizes and have partaken in most all genres of riding.

Today I seek a practical machine for a practical purpose and wish it to be the best I can buy for the price I'm willing to pay. I am convinced that this course is initially the least expensive, however, maintenance costs a lot and, a lot of maintenance costs a lot more. Though I am concerned about durability, reliability, broken spokes, bent wheels, soft metals and, lack of rim locks, my primary concerns are functionality, ease of use and, joy of ownership.

The swingarm pivot repair, did you price that? This failure is included in my list of deal breakers when buying used. It can be very costly as a percentage of the bikes' value.
I've been buying Chinese products for years, none of us were really given a choice, so we all know a great many of the shortcomings that come from using cheaper materials and labor. When I see the same Make/Model/Year of a bike I bought brand new selling today for %400 of what I paid decades ago, It's a stark reminder that quality no longer comes first. If I buy, when I buy, I doubt I'll be surprised about any aspect of the purchase.

I'm in pretty much the same boat as the thread op here.. Started out with a layaway on a 125cc Pit Bike.. Then I started looking into DS bikes. My work commute is 25 miles one way and my car just gulps too much petrol. I like the idea of being able to flick off the rural backroads and hit a few trails every now and then. A small displacement DS is a way better choice for my particular needs. I've owned a couple chinese scooters with pretty good luck. Super easy to work on and damn reliable for what they are. Part of the fun for me is turning the wrench, so a Chinese DS is a smart buy. Stock up on loctite!
Now I'm down to which one to get.. These boards are a wealth of information. JerryHawk250 has a great channel and I've been checking out Motocheez as well.

TRUE, 230ccs do not make a real model 250. I've tried to find out from owners if their registration says 230 or 250. Around here there are highways restricting bikes under 250cc and your license endorsement is restricted as well.
Thanks for the link.
I had looked into these a while back but did not consider them only because they are not sold as street legal. I'll have to revisit the information with the idea that a street kit can be used. Most of the vintage bikes I've been considering will also need a street kit so it's a great suggestion. The first thing I noticed is the unobstructed lines under the frame. Bet I can hop a log without bending or breaking something.
Lots of things made in China are not made for Chinese companies. Honda bikes are made in China. It's when the Chinese are left to their own to engineer, design, select materials and levels of quality assurance that we get inferior products. And you thought just Americans were greedy.

Check with member OneLeggedRider. He and his cousin Jay (McFailbutter) both have Hawks registered in Ohio.

Greetings from the Sunshine State!
 

Welcome to the site! Keep us posted on what you finally end up buying. I have a standard Hawk. I’m probably a 80/20 street/off-road rider trying to be a 60/40!

I live in the Tampa Bay Area of Florida, so there’s not a huge dual sport community. When I was shopping around all I could find was decent bikes priced like new bikes or bikes in my price range that needed a total rebuild.

If I could do it again, I would go with CSC just because of the great customer support!

Enjoy the Ride!

Commuter or off-road
 

Peacefullyslow says:

"Because I plan to use this as a commuter, I'm forced to buy a minimum 250cc to avoid some regional highway restrictions. So I looked at their flagship 250. While the rear brake parts still hang down below the frame, at least the front brake line doesn't loop in front of the fork like the new CSC. Bump a rock, cut a front line! Hop a log, bend the rear linkage! Really? If I can't stop it, I'd be crazy to start it."

I think it would help if Peacefullyslow decides if he is going to commute or go off-road. By choosing one or the other for the main mode helps narrow down what bike and how to set it up. I chose the CSC TT250 because I do not plan on bumping a rock or leaping a log on my way to work.

My modifications, with the exception of the eventual replacement of the knobbies with street tires (Conti Go!), do not preclude using for mild trail riding; though I never plan to do this.

As far as the highway, we don't have the 250 limit in Colorado. I don't need it for my commute, but have made a few runs to get somewhere faster. I can go about 65 at 7000 rpm, which is as fast as I would want to go on a small bike. I have the 47 tooth rear sprocket that CSC sells to increase top speed. Still has plenty of torque in lower gears for around town.

Mine is straight-up to do a city commute and I try to ride year-round with the exception of snow days. I also have added capacity to haul my regular 4 bags of groceries so I don't have to sacrifice a day riding just to go shopping. The rear rack folds up into a large "milk" crate. Here are a few of my latest photos.

Ride On!

Goob

I'm subscribed to Motocheez. He's enlightened me a great deal.
 

I'm really thankful for these content providers on youtube. I've watched several videos on these budget bikes and have learned a lot from the reviews. Some owners torture these bikes far more than I probably will and still put in a good word for dependability. It's those reviews that have me now considering buying a Chinese bike. When I hear about tire and tube trouble that could have been avoided with the inclusion of rim locks or, broken spokes because their too thin and stretchy and probably weren't all tightened at the factory and, all the disassembly, reassembly and checking I'm going to have to do before the first ride and subsequent rides, I start to question. Then I end up on a forum, asking questions.

Thanks for the info, I'm glad I got to hear that you have had some pretty good luck with these.

The FSE250E, R, and the XTR all come with, if I remember correctly, all of the equipment necessary to street register the bikes. If you call them and get a chance to talk to Gary, the owner, he'll work with you. I know the MSO comes stating motorcycle, so it shouldn't be too hard to get it titled. If they don't come with the necessary stuff, he can put a kit together for you. Everything I've seen implies they have great customer service, and they're putting out an extremely durable, high quality product. SSR might be a good option, too, if one step down from GPX in quality, their OE makes effectively identical parts (in the case of the 250), for Suzuki, and it's a true 250 with an oil filter. Oh, and GPX's chassis and body parts are a copy of Husky/KTM. If I were in the market, I'd be getting an FSE250R.

did not price any repairs, nor did I take it apart to see what the problem was. it could be a simple bearing replacement. chinese bearings, grease and oils are pretty lame. one thing to do for longevity is to replace all fluids and wheel bearings early in the bike's life. I rode mine pretty hard both on-road at 55 to 60 MPH, running 7500+ RPMs as well as some off-road lumps, bumps and holes. Never had problems with rims or spokes. Steering head stayed solid. broke the shift shaft off in a wreck. easy repair and parts were cheap.

wish I had more to tell you. I was in the same position as you and jumped in just to try. I was surprised that it wasn't the "junk" I expected it to be, particularly for the price. I would buy another except I'd want a larger motor. the motor screams at higher speeds I run when commuting to work. A 350 or 400 with more torque would be nicer.

FSE250R? $5350 fully assembled? Seems to defeat the purpose of buying a Chinese bike. I could buy a new KLX250 for that price or less once I wave cash in their face. Guess I'm missing something.

Somebody else's problem now!
 

Swing arm linkage bearings and bushings have been a bigger problem since the advent of the mono shock. I like the mono shock architecture, simplifies adjusting, assures equal tension side to side and, reduces weight. Must be good, they're sill being used on most bikes that benefit from those features. Gearing a bike to find a happy medium between highway and trails is pretty easy these days. Up in the front, test, down in the rear, test, back down in the front, test. More HP isn't always the answer, I got caught up in that trend and found myself riding a 650 in the dirt, not fun!
Ran a short Baja event with it, it really shined there but, learned that it's better to squeeze more HP out of what you got with fuel air and fire before turning to bigger displacement. Just one of those lessons in life that I'm glad I survived to use.:yay:

Always good to be welcomed, Thanks.
 

I appreciate the suggestion, several have commented on the superior customer service at CSC. The used bike market is unquestionably INSANE right now. Knowing what it takes to refurb a used machine, registration (upwards of $300) and a few mods has relegated the used bike market to mostly collectors and those that own bike shops. To get a bargain on a used bike that doesn't cost 70% of new on the current market, right now, is hard to do. I'm still not convinced that buying Chinese is the best avenue for me. Too many shortcuts and oversights in construction that I see as being potentially dangerous and would require a lot of the same work replacing parts as if I had bought a vintage bike. Cheap wheels, all of the bearings and races are soft steel, undersized spokes, no rim locks on the back wheel (really?). The rear brake assembly looks like it was just globbed on below the frame as an afterthought. I live in a heavily wooded area and log hopping is a must, without CLEAR clearance, I may as well walk the trails. There are Chinese bikes that don't have these glaring shortcomings but, they are almost twice the money and they still have quality issues related to material selection and to make them street legal is another $700.

Buying new is $7,000. Buying used is $5,000. Buying Chinese is $4,000. I need to critically asses the value of the money saved over the value of my time and satisfaction with my purchase. It's not as easy as I had hoped.

It's a much higher quality bike than a KLX, and the KLX has many of its components made in China anyway. You're just paying for a name with the Kawi. The suspension alone is superior, fully adjustable front and rear, and the forks are, if I remember correctly, a knockoff of Showa Twin Chamber forks. It also effectively has a knockoff of a modern KTM frame, and all the parts are cheaper, too. The KLX simply can't compare.

Goob says:

"I think it would help if Peacefullyslow decides if he is going to commute or go off-road. By choosing one or the other for the main mode helps narrow down what bike and how to set it up. I chose the CSC TT250 because I do not plan on bumping a rock or leaping a log on my way to work. "


I say:

Goob, saw the pictures, nice setup. I'm a little troubled with your inference that I'm having trouble deciding on my USE of the machine. That decision has been made. 80/20 street/trail. If all I wanted is a commuter, there are better choices than the off road geometry bikes. I don't know your experience level so I can't disagree with your thoughts, however, you did make it clear that you have not ridden trails. Perhaps if you had you would know that bumping rocks happens and hopping logs is not only necessary riding style but also the primary intent of the dual sport machines. Go anywhere (even places where they haven't yet put streets).
Ride on, ride safe. Have fun?

Buying Chinese is $4,000?? I suppose you could if you wanted to, but I'm quite happy with mine for less than $2500 delivered, fully assembled. Of course no rim locks but does any dual purpose bike come with them as standard? I use my bike primarily as a commuter with occasional dirt and trails but I don't expect it to perform like a dirt bike so I don't rush it. I owned a KLR250 and KLR650 for years. The 250 was great on or off road. The 650 was way too heavy and tall for off road and it wasn't that great on the highway either. Light is right for off road.