CSC SG400's Are Finally In
 

Received an email from Sara at CSC yesterday letting me know that the SG400's are in and will be shipping soon. I emailed back to confirm all of my Certificate of Origin and shipping info, as well as my color choice. Waiting for a call for credit card info for payment now.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the delay from the original July shipping estimate was only a month, given the current shipping backlogs and manufacturing chaos due to COVID19. It looks like I may be able to get one or two thousand break in miles on the bike before the end of the year, if global warming does its part and keeps things clear here in Ohio into December. We shall see.

If you don't mind, can you tell us the total price you paid including delivery? Also, are you getting any items that CSC is providing such as filters, manuals, CDs, ect. I know that they are known as being great with after purchase support. Thanks.

Oh yeah, we're also going to need to see lots of pictures after delivery.

Curiosity took me to CSC's site and I got a kick out of the "Sinister Black" color moniker of this:

Is this 400 made by the same manufacturer that has been producing RX-3/Zongshen?

Yes, my understanding is it is produced by Zongshen

Deciding between the SG400 and the RX4 is not easy.
The SG suits me better in the long run, but I still would like to be able ride some trails.

You could always toss some Shinko 700's on the SG400 as long as you aren't aiming to do anything super hardcore. The tubless spoke rims are well suited for an "ADV" style bike, and they make the 700 in the exact sizes needed.

I am just waiting until they become available. I am so torn between buying an SG400 and the Royal Enfield Interceptor 650. I am waiting to pull the trigger until there is more information out there on the SG400. You would think it would be an easy choice, but each bike has pros and cons that make it almost an even pick in my eyes. All of the delays due to covid are making the wait even worse lol

That would not even be a blink of the eye decision for me. I have a Himalayan that has served me for three years without a hiccup and if it does hiccup there is a dealer and service department 12 miles down the road from me. Three more dealers within 100 miles.

No guessing about parts numbers or matches, no waiting for weeks on shipping, no frustrations when the wrong part arrives. There is even a trained and certified mechanic to do repairs I can not do.

Plus I have all the parts available from the internet for customizing.

If RE decides to reintroduce a fuel injected 500 Bullet classic I am trading the Himalayan for one. It is just the power difference I am looking for.

There's a few custom RE 650 interceptor modded Scramblers around that look the business.
for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4bh09wnWoI

Some whispers of RE making their own scrambler based off the Himalayan but I don't think it looks as good. Scram 411.

Not to derail the OP but if the China Bike money is in the same ball park I know where'd i'd be going.

SG400 Price
 

Just got my invoice via email, the OTD total, which does not include my state sales tax, is $5445.00 US, which breaks down as follows:

SG400: $4895.00

Doc Fee: $55.00

Assembly/Dealer Prep: $345.00

Shipping $150.00

Waiting on a Tracking Number now; it seems that the SG400's are small enough to be crated and shipped freight instead of by a dedicated motorcycle carrier like HaulBikes, which is what CSC used for my RX4.

Once it gets here, I will be sure to get some pictures and a quick initial impression up for you guys to peruse at your leisure. Hopefully, those of you on the fence will be able to make a decision one way or the other as to whether or not the bike would be a good fit for you. More to come, stay tuned.

You would think it would be a blink of an eye decision, but if you compare the bikes with an open mind, it's not as easy as you think.

Yes, the RE 650 has 11 more hp, but it also weighs 445lbs with no fuel, which is quite a bit heavier than the SG400 at around 360lbs without fuel. That is a huge difference and will make a big difference in several aspects of performance and handling.

The 650 makes more torque sure, but it also flattens out pretty severely as it approaches it's 7500rpm redline. The SG400 has more revs to work with, but still looks to have a decent torque curve - though I can't comment how it pulls up top obviously. I have ridden a Int 650 though and am very familiar.

5 gallon fuel capacity on the SG vs 3.6 on the Int 650. Rated fuel economy is about the same, which gives the SG a heck of a range. Top Speeds are both near 100mph - 96 vs 105. That means they are both capable enough for highway duty.

Honestly, the one big advantage of the Int 650 is the aftermarket support. Being a big guy, even though I have lost a bunch of weight, I have to basically modify the suspension of every bike I own with higher rate springs at a minimum. I am actually not that worried about factory support as CSC has been an incredible company to work with in my own personal experience, and many owners have sung their praises in regards to warranty support.

I do like that the SG400 has inverted front forks as well. Brake performance is likely similar, the SG rotors being a little smaller, but the bike also being almost 100lbs lighter kind of makes up for it.

My interest for one of these bikes is to likely replace my Hawk as a commuter. Either bike would be good at the job honestly. The one big selling factor for me is how I fit on the bike, and from the specs I can find, the SG400 is actually pretty close to the same dimensions, being quite a bit narrower as the one big exception.

You would think that would be an easy choice. After all the fees and everything else, new for new, the SG400 delivered is $5,445.

An Interceptor 650 (in Orange Crush, because I love Orange lol) after dealer fees and all, is about $6300 from my local dealership.

A $900 difference doesn't seem like much, but it's enough.

Plus, the Royal Enfields aren't unknown to have some quality issues similar to the higher end Chinese bikes. Cross threaded bolts from the factory, corrosion, and some poor material quality issues abound. The 650's just had a recall issued this year for the brake calipers corroding severely enough to potentially cause total brake failure.

I trust the build quality of the SG400 way more than I do my Hawk, and I ride the hell out of my Hawk.

I for one would love any and all information you could provide. I know it's hard for me to find a proper rider analog seeing as I am 6'4, but any picture and opinion you can provide will still help a great deal.

$900USD isn't chump change but neither is an additional 250cc displacement.
Build quality I believe RE has improved enough to not be as concerned.

Not to Say the SG400 isn't a decent bike either and $900 could get some decent custom upgrade options. First thing I'd be ditching is the weird tail appendage


had a dream of going to India and finding a RE Diesel Bullet. Riding it back to Australia....Not likely anytime soon given the way the world turned out or the probability of Australian customs killing the plan with fees and regulations.

Yep, $900 difference. For that you get;

120 years of bike building experience.

And you get a full three year warranty with parts in inventory and work done by the local dealer. It's not E-bay/Fed-X and DIY!

And you get full road service. If a RE breaks down they feel so bad about it that they send a truck pick you up!

Some would say those things were actually necessities and expected with a new bike purchase.

But you gotta' do what you gotta' do.

I don't disagree. The quality has improved some, but they still aren't perfect either.

That extra 250cc gets you 11hp and 14lb-ft in US English. The difference is still in how that power is delivered, with the RE being a nice low RPM torque machine that gets a bit anemic at the top (not bad, just a bit). That extra 250cc's also comes with 90lbs of extra weight, which is a big thing to keep in mind. Those big 650's are overbuilt heavy lumps (not a bad thing, just a fact).

I love the RE, but curosity has me.

120 years of bike building experience? I will grant that, but with an asterix. Between multiple owners and two continents. That 120 years definitely shows in the design of the bike...

Yes, you do get a 3 year warranty, that is a selling point for sure.

CSC does however help their owners with warranty repair by working with local shops to help pay for repairs and supply parts. CSC isn't quite your typical Chonda retailer. That is the ONLY reason I am even looking at this bike considering the kind of money involved.

The only real thing lacking there is the local dealer support, which I have considered. That is actually one of the big selling points for the RE actually.

Another big selling point is re-sale ability. I post a RE Interceptor 650 up for sale used and it will probably sell pretty quick for a decent price. I put the SG400 up for sale used and I am guaranteed to take a huge loss, even by motorcycle standards.

Last big selling point is the enormous aftermarket support. To me that is no small thing, because being a big and tall guy it's very necessary for me to do some upgrades. I can get full suspension kits, bespoke luggage kits from major retailers, seats from companies like Corbin, and on and on. Sky is the limit.

I am not a blind fool, but I am an adventurous fool that likes to step off the beaten path (There is a reason my Youtube name is OddBallPerformance). Hell ,I bought a Hawk. I modded the crap out of said Hawk. I could have easily gone another direction, but I didn't. I also don't regret it one bit.:shrug:

I will say this. I do think the SG400 should be priced a lower than it is (hack at least $500 off the price) At $5500 delivered I can name several other bikes at or close to that same price range with similar performance from other big brands too.
The Z400 immediately comes to mind, and it's almost the exact same price after fees etc.
The Yamaha MT03 is actually cheaper, and it comes with that amazing 321cc twin from the R3 (which is more powerful than the SG400). The MT03 is actually the other bike on my consideration list.
My only real issue with either of those bikes is the very modern angular and aggressive styling... it just isn't me. I love more classic or understated styling, which is why the Interceptor and SG400 are more appealing to me.

That SG400 fuel range/MPG is nothing to sneeze at.

Yeah, that is one thing that impressed me for sure. It's actually better than my Hawk lol. One of my biggest complaints of most modern bikes is their relatively small tank capacity. Not really an issue if you ride around in town, but living where I do where towns and fuel stations can quickly become far apart in short order, it would be nice to know I have that kind of range available to me.

I also like that the SG400 uses tubless spoke rims and standard sport bike tire sizes with a 120/70-17 front and 150/70-17 rear. That opens up a huge world of options.

The cost of tank upgrade even if there is such an option would cost $200 minimum at best. Otherwise you're strapping cans for remote range.

In Australia going somewhere could take a couple of hours...having the fuel to get back out again is the important factor, This isn't offroad either...big place, big distances between stations.

Being the tinkerer you are Megadan any warranty on the RE would likely be void.

If the prices were identical yeah I'd probably go the RE mostly for the resale value after 3 years.

Tubless rims and tire options are always appreciated.No need to carry spoons, tubes and patch kits...just a plug kit.

Can of orange paint and a weekend should sort out any color desires.

Shhhh. Nobody has to know... :hehe:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fz6B-3LP4Hc&t=765s

Sg400 @7:10

Still a grand or so below the OTD price of Kawasaki Z400 and I am not a fan of the appearance of the naked z400.
I saw a press release that Kawasaki will offer a retro version of the Z600 soon, with a round headlight. Welcome to the party, Kawasaki.

Dan, I'm sure you know, but S&S is making parts for the 650, so the HP advantage can be easily increased. For my money, I'd go with the 650, even with the increased cost, because unless the SG400 is a bit hit, since the motor isn't otherwise being imported (to the best of my knowledge), I could easily see it becoming an orphaned model in not too many years, because as you stated earlier, it is comfortably in the same price range as many Japanese models.

The market is especially weird now, but I highly doubt the SG400 will be a rousing success; they're no longer competing with used bikes, price wise, and they're in a very competitive market where most people aren't looking at a potential DIY project.

I could be wrong, but I think the 650 will be around much longer.

I think that you're underestimating demand for the SG400 a bit. The primary reason that it's being brought in is to satisfy the unmet demand from potential SG250 purchasers who are looking for that style of bike, but want something with more power and bigger ergonomics - which the SG400 does in spades, while keeping the weight down. The tubeless spoke wheels and the fact that the TC380 is liquid cooled, versus air/oil cooled are icing on the cake. The light weight, with good power thing is really important in a lot of peoples books, mine included. Like the RX3 before it, Zongshen has stepped into a segment that is currently not being served by the mainstream manufacturers - >250cc, sub 650cc cafe retro styled parallel twin bikes.

As far as support goes, CSC has demonstrated repeatedly their ability to support their bikes, which is the primary reason that I continue to buy motorcycles from them. That, and the fact that they ship the thing right to my doorstep; I never have to leave my house except to ride the bike, lol. After six plus years of CSC selling Chinese bikes, I don't see any danger of the bike being orphaned, and if that did come to pass, AliExpress and TaoBao are more than able to fill in the gap. You can damn near build an RX3/RX4 from all the spare parts that they have available on those sites. As far as repairs go, so far I've purchased three Zhongshen motorcycles - this will be the fourth, and the only issues I have had are crap wet cell batteries and a bad oil seal on my RX4's shift shaft. That's it. For reference, the wet cell batteries in my 2015 Versys and 1990 Gold Wing also went to crap, so I can't lay all the blame on poorly made Chinese batteries. This is the reason that I am now a Shorai Lithium Iron house, exclusively; I use them in all of my bikes now. I can let them sit forever, and when I do want to ride a bike, they are ready to go.

Don't misunderstand me, I like the RE 650's, as well as the Himalayan, but for the type of riding that I do (almost all street), I don't really need a low RPM tractor, and I'm very interested in seeing what Zongshen hath wrought in their new small parallel twin engine. Probably more so than I am in the SG400 itself. It's the main reason that I was disappointed when CSC opted not to bring in the RX3S. It will be even more interesting to see what the RX6 brings to the table, should CSC decide to give it a go - a Norton based parallel twin engine design, coupled with name brand components instead of the usual Chinese in house stuff that they usually put on their bikes.

When it comes to resale, I don't buy a bike for resale value - what's the purpose there? I want to ride the damn thing, not sell it. I'm not aware of anybody who makes money selling a motorcycle, apart from dealers. Having said that, I'm seeing folks selling plenty of RX3's, RX4's, and other CSC bikes that are are not having problems moving the bikes. And they are not losing their shirts either, unless they really need to sell(I'm thinking ChopperCharles' $1200, 600 mile RX3 here). There are still a lot of people out there who are curious about Chinese motorcycles and CSC, who may not be willing to pay MSRP, but will happily fork out twenty to forty percent less on a used one. Here again, my Japanese bikes offer a similar tale - in 2018 I picked up my Versys, with 4000 miles and about $1000 of GIVI addons, for $6100. Basically a forty percent hit to the previous owner's investment. How is that any different to someone selling a $4000 RX3 for $2500?

I could go on, but I think I've made my point. If you are afraid to buy a Chinese bike in 2021, especially one from CSC, you shouldn't be. Unless you are the type who absolutely, positively, must have a dealer to take it to, then yep, you should look elsewhere. Just be prepared to pay more for the privilege.

I think the choice between the SG400 and RE650 is just personal preference. Both good bikes and a good value.

Many consumers who are not mechanically motivated or from their point of view personally invest themselves into a transport appliance, will sell and buy new after the factory support/warranty period expires...This makes resale value important for some.

At least you have the options....In Australia these Chinese road use bikes are basically non existent.

There are China bike distributors. SWM, Braaap and CF Moto etc...but nothing like the RE650 I've found

I agree, and believe me when I say that I am grateful that we have reached the point where we have the choice. Back in 2015, it was basically a Ninja 250, a Rebel 250, or a TU250 for small, low cost street bikes, and a Yamaha TW200 for off road. The RX3 really blew things open, proving to other manufacturers that there was a market for feature packed small ADV, street, and dual sport motorcycles; bikes that aren't bare bones beginner models, but full featured motorcycles in their own right. The fact that there are differing sales and support models that are flourishing is an added bonus, allowing everyone to get the bike that they want with the type of service and support that they are comfortable with.

Yep, and options are always good to have. We've got CFMoto here in the US, with dealers even, but for some strange reason they only bring in their side by sides and UTV's, no motorcycles, which sucks IMO. And yes, I understand about the folks who flip their bikes before the warranty expires, but that's on them. "You pays your money, you takes your chances", as they say. I want to ride mine into the ground, my Chinese bikes in particular, since I'm curious as to their long term durability, which I'm pleased to report is pretty damn good so far.

Their motorcycles used to come here. They didn't sell well. And we're usually priced close to their competition, but we're underwhelming compared to them. CF Moto stopped selling them

Yep, that is the exact reason they didn't sell well. The CF Moto 650TK and NK were sold here from around 2010-2014. Not really bad bikes either from all accounts, but because they were priced right in line with all of the big name brand 650's - which is a TOUGH segment to get into - and they didn't really offer anything unique AND their performance was mediocre at best, but priced pretty much the same as said big brands... They didn't sell. Heck, you can STILL buy a brand new 2013-14's from certain dealers.

That being said, I do think CSC has a few big legs up over the CF Moto bikes. For one, CF Moto was sold like most Chinese bikes, through other third party dealers. That meant warranty issues were difficult to claim, parts were hard to get, etc. CSC is an actual dedicated brand/dealer for these bikes. This means they stock the parts and honor the warranties, and they do a dang good job of it. Working_ZS said everything perfectly above with his response, and is exactly how I view it. I think the SG400 definitely fills a market gap, even if it is a niche' market. Nothing else like it really exists in the segment, so even if the pricing is on par with other similar displacement bikes, it offers things the others don't, and features the others don't.

One thing about the 650 is there are crazy aftermarket for it.. fairing kits, ecu tunes, big bore kit (750/850cc).. rear set controls and clip on options on the (continental).. a 650 has way more potential right now tha the re3 likely ever would.. also, the re3 from csc has an engine thats already been replaced in China/Europe by a 401 cc version. Really, the sg400 could be considered the "old" re3

Your 650 Is Getting Expensive
 

And just exactly how much are you willing to spend for an air/oil cooled 650cc motorcycle? After you go and tear apart your new bike, add a S&S big bore kit, swap the cam, install new connecting rods, flash a new ECU tune, put on a new exhaust to take advantage of the engine mods, change out the clip ons and rear sets, and swap the fairings, I'm pretty sure you're going to end up with a $9000 - $10,000 70 HP bike, at best. At this point, Yamaha will be happy to sell you an XSR 700 (way better engine) or XSR900 (super way better engine) that will blow it out of the water from a cost and performance standpoint, and still leave a good chunk of change in your pocket. Honda will gladly set you up with a CB650R with a sweet inline four for the same amount, too.

For myself, I am not looking to buy a brand new bike, then turn around, tear it apart, and attempt to rebuild it into something that already exists, and in a much better guise. I want a low cost, sub 650cc parallel twin bike, with moderate power, more style than me (a low bar, I'll admit), low weight, low to no electronics, $200 a year full coverage insurance (that includes break down and towing coverage), and built by a company with a reputation for putting out quality product. Hello Zongshen RE3/CSC SG400. It ticks all the boxes for $5500.00, delivered to my doorstep. What more can you ask for than that?

If I need more than the SG400's 40 HP, I'll hop on my Versys 650 or Gold Wing GL1500 to scratch that itch, not blow a ton of money trying to make it or a RE 650 into something that they're not.

The performance aftermarket isn't really what I am after though. I have a nearly 200hp vfr1200f if I get the speed demon itch. The only aftermarket that appeals to me is the suspension and seat side.of things, because as previously mentioned, I am a big and tall kind of guy, and I usually have to adjust the bikes factory setup to match me.

My main interest in either bike is just a easy highway capable and fun commuter that has really good economy.

By the time you are done doing all those mods, the motorcycle would end up being as expensive as a Japanese 650 and guess what? It will be still underpowered next to the Japs 650.

Royal Enfield ain't for the speedster.
Their engines are workhorse not racehorse , just take a look at their designs at their specs and you will see what i mean.

Point being if you are considering a 650 INT, it wouldn't make sense to buy an sg400 for those reasons and more. Also, I'm unaware of what 650's you are referring to (a 650 Yamaha vstar is a cruiser, the only one coming to mind).

I don't really run into people who aren't interested in modifying their bike. I'm in several local motorcycle groups of varying types of bikes.. that idea of cost for a mod is irrelevant. People put exhausts on their bikes that cost $1-2k on a regular basis.. $500 tunes, expensive lighter wheels, aftermarket suspension etc.. cost doesn't matter if someone has a bike they want. Especially when it differentiates their from the hundreds of other bikes in the rides/groups/meets. People put a lot of money into 600 sports bikes on a regular basis.. why not just buy a 1000cc? Not applicable.

Riders that mod their engines usually don't do it for the power increase alone. A lot of them do mods because they just enjoy the tinkering and tuning. They are not trying to keep up with Hayabusas.

I'm not sure why we're comparing a 650 to a 400. Totally different beasts, unless I'm missing something here.

Like WZS, I'm also a multiple CSC bike purchaser and have been totally happy with the products and support I've received, for all the same reasons he listed. I've also done just as well on the resale as any Japanese bikes I've owned, if that makes a difference to a person.

I'd like to try the Haylon, myself. Looks like a nice canyon carver for our roads up here in the sticks.

If the main point of modding the motorcycle is not power but making it look "unique" then by that logic any motorcycle has unlimited potential.
In fact we could say that the SG400 will even have the uncommon tag


If you buy a CB650r and put like 1k or 2k to make it more powerful, then you should have gone with a CB1000r


Me neither, not even the engines on those motorcycle were not made for the same purpose...

megadan said he was torn between a 650 and sg400.

There appears to be pros and cons for either option...both can be modded. If you are purchasing a bike to hack it up and improve it then using the servicing and warranty cover to promote the value is now a moot point.

I believe the dilemma is if the extra $900USD premium on the RE650 is worth it?

My perception in Megadan's case is that the additional cost is not worth it. But for others it may very well be.

Megadan's size? Get the physically larger bike. I doubt we'll find him in a Smart Car anytime soon.... ;-)