Templar 250 (not X or M)
 

What do you guys know about the Templar 250 non X/M? Is it a new model or an old one? I see a lot of mentions of the Templar X and M but not the plain Templar.

I ordered one from Power Sports Max last week and I've searched all over but only found one guy on youtube with this bike. Surely someone on here has one. All I know is that it shares the same engine and trans with the M. It has shorter forks, a shorter rear shock, shorter wheelbase, smaller fuel tank, no skid plate and costs less. It's much taller than the Titan and no relation to the Hawk.

There’s a guy called Light Design on YouTube that has a Templar. He has some fairly detailed information on that bike. He has a good head to head comparison of the Templar and Titan on one video. I’ll try to link that on here. Might take me a second.
https://youtu.be/G05ee7_uaW8

That's the one guy on youtube I found. Thanks anyway.

Edit: Actually I found 2 more guys with some youtube videos. Not much useful info. however. It finally shipped today so I'll know much more about it next week when it arrives.

This is the original Templar that was sold early Summer when the Templar X showed up (5 speed version). The frame is slightly shorter, it doesn't have the adjustable suspension, and no rack. But it DOES have that awesome ZS172FMM-3A engine. It is the same engine I got on my 5 speed Templar X.

$1400 at PSM right now. Insanely great price for that bike. You will not be disappointed.

Oooo, I think you have a budding future YouTube carreer ahead of you. You could make a video with proper information in to help the rest of the folks out there sitting on the fence decide!

I guess I'll find out if I made a mistake or not. I really wanted the M for only $100 more but they sold out right before I decided to buy. I took another couple of days and settled for the base Templar. I expect to like the engine, it's the short wheelbase and padded 2x4 seat that concern me. My Motocross days are well behind me as are the jumps. My ass is a little wider too, among other things. I might just be having some buyer's remorse about not getting the M I wanted. Hopefully I'll love the bike, I'll know in a week. Thanks again, Thumper.

Only if I don't have to dye my hair blue!

Please don't! :lmao:

I just ordered one as well for my son. Looks like a good bike. Time will tell.

I hope he likes it. I'm waiting on my delivery ATM. It should be here any minute now. My biggest fear is shipping damage. Unfortunately my Dad is in the hospital so I may not get it put together for a while.

Well, I got my Templar and it looked as though R&L played fork lift hockey with it. one side was beat to hell and it must've been stood on end at some point since most of the motor oil was inside the plastic bag at the very rear of the bike. Surprisingly the damage to the bike was minimal. Broken rear turn signal, broken shifter, scratched fork tubes, a broken turn signal flasher unit and a broken headlight. I filed a claim with R&L but they haven't bothered to contact me. OTOH Power sports max has been easy to deal wiuth, They sent me a new turn signal and flasher unit but the shifter was out of stock so they offered a $31 credit which more than covers a new shifter. I just discovered the headlight issue.

My overall impression is good, both the Templar and PSM. Unfortunately it's been really cold here and my dad was in the hospital for a week. I've ridden it less than 2 miles so far. I'll update this thread later with photos and more info.

Questions for Templar owners:

1) What size spanner wrench to adjust rear shock preload?
2) Any reason not to run 87 octane in this low compression engine?
3) What headlight bulb?
4) What diameter for the fork spring preload spacers?

:thanks:

-I have not attempted to adjust the preload on the rear shock, not sure about spanner size, might be the same on the X

- I have not pulled the bulb, but might be different on the X. TexPete has posted details about the headlight bulb(s).

-I have not taken apart front forks, so I don't know what size for shimming the springs

But yes, you can run regular unleaded. I don't hear any detonation on stock ZS172 engines (5 or 6 speed).

Note: Someone found the KKE suspension website. It is in another thread...Your forks and rear shock might be listed. KKE might respond to inquiries about them.

BTW, R&L beat up my 1st Temp X crate. I don't know where the oil came from, but the crate was standing on end in the truck when it arrived at my house! A$$holes.

I got the Motion Pro Shock Spanner Punch made for turning hard to reach lock and preload rings on rear shocks without damaging them.

People in the USA always think the Chinese print manuals for products sold worldwide only for them. Only the USA and Canada use the USA Octane rating system not the world. The 86.5 USA Octane is 90 Octane (RON). So the Chinese printed manuals for low compression engines have all this time been telling people to use USA 87.

No one has replaced the LED bulb in the headlight that I know of, the problem is at the cheap levels there are uncountable resellers of Chinese products that claim sometimes absurdly high specifications, sometimes specifications that seem to even defy physics ;). But if you do replace it and don't know the good from the crap, I would probably pony up and get a bulb from a reputable well known industry brand thats been around decades as its not a frequently purchased consumable item and rather important in the dark.


I have not pulled my forks apart.

Thanks, I was getting ahead of myself anyway. Winter is officially here in SE PA and most of this will have to wait until Spring. The headlight works when I wiggle things around so it's just a loose connection somewhere.

I was pretty sure that when the manufacturer stated 91 octane they meant RON not AKI but it doesn't hurt to ask. I filled the tank with 87 and it runs fine. If I have time I'll make some DIYs for various Templar essentials in the Spring. IMO the suspension is way too soft for a 250lb person so pvc spacers in the forks and a lot more preload on the shock are a must for me. I'll also rejet and unplug the idle air screw, change fork oil and possibly stiffer springs.

Thanks :tup:

I'll update again after I get to ride this bike more than up and down my dead end street. All I can really say about it now is that the suspension seems like it would work well for a 150lb novice rider. It's soft. The engine sounds great and has good power. Damn this cold weather.

I just confirmed that the Templar 250 is the same bike as the Trailmaster TM35 but with turn signals and a tail light. Everything else matches up. So Zumav makes Trailmaster.

PSM sent me 4 turn signals to replace the one broken in shipping. Unfortunately they don't match the OEM signals, illuminate a different pattern and are so dim I wouldn't use them for fear of being hit while turning. They are so dim that I doubt they would be visible to other drivers during daylight hours.

I finished installing the body panels and nothing lines up properly or fits correctly. Bent frame? Not sure. With the ill fitting front side panels in place the seat doesn't fit right. I also found a bolt missing from the rear subframe extension but no hole in the plastic rear fender for a bolt to go through, Probably why they left it out during assembly.

The headlight worked for about 5 minutes before cutting out. It comes on again if tapped but goes out again immediately. I checked the wiring for a loose connection but the problem is confined to the LED bulb assembly.

The pressure switch for the front brake appears to have failed. It worked before but now I get no brake light from it and the rear brake does activate the brake light.

I don't think the child who installed the graphics on my Templar had breakfast the day my bike was thrown together. Air bubbles and wrinkles everywhere.

There is a loop on the frame just behind the head tube for the wiring harness and cables to pass through. They ran the clutch cable through but nothing else. I redid the wiring harness to pass through it but left the throttle and choke cables as-is for now.

All in all I am impressed by how much motorcycle I got for the price but very disappointed in the assembly, quality and shipping damage.

I hate to hear that Freddy. You can get the signal lights on Amazon very cheap. And they are sequential too. Send them a video clip of the front brake not activating the brake light. Surely they will replace that. And show them how the panels won’t line up. They’re probably swamped right now because of Christmas. But stay on them. Good luck!

Thanks, I saw some cheap signals on Amazon that might work. The ones PSM sent are flowing or sequential but very dim. At least with Amazon I can return them if they aren't bright enough.

I suppose I'm just getting frustrated by fixing one problem only to find two more. That and it's too cold to ride or even work on it. :(

“I wanted to buy a bike, not problems.”

GOOD turn signals to replace Templar turn signals
 

Freddie,
These are under $20 (ebay). I installed them on the back of my 2022 1/2 Temp X
https://www.ebay.com/itm/373082601293

Sequential lighting points in the direction of the turn. Nice. And they plug right in.

https://www.chinariders.net/showpost...8&postcount=29

It is post 29 in my thread in pics and videos section. The battery I got is also shown in that post. It has much more cranking amps, and just barely fits in the battery cradle. Perfect fit.

BTW- Zora directed me to these when I tore the rubber mount on the original left rear turn signal. I only installed the rear set (easier), so I still have two of them uninstalled.

I would suspect the reason for sending 4 was that they knew they would not match and were providing a whole set that does.

I think they just come in a pack of 4

I think I still have the original right rear blinker. Should match up. The sequential blinkers are nice though. Freddie should just upgrade...

makes sense

Thanks Thumper! The signals PSM sent me look identical to the ones on eBay. If you look at the photo where they show the sequential lighting pattern in 4 stages, mine only do steps 1 & 2. I thought I might have a bad one so I tested all 4 and they all light up the same. I'm wondering if I just need a a different flasher relay. These are much nicer than OEM if they worked right. I determined that my headlight wiring and base are okay, just a bad LED bulb. Unfortunately it's unlike any automotive headlamp bulb I've ever seen.

Anyway, I have the bike in many pieces ATM. I had to remove the rear subframe to get the airbox out so I could remove the carb to rejet. While I'm at it I've been re-routing much of the cables and wiring.

How do I remove the white plastic clip that holds the needle in the slide? Push the needle up? needle nose pliers? How many washers do you recommend? One or two? IIRC the best main jet is 125 and 42 pilot? I really don't want to rejet again any time soon!

Thanks again :tup:

Yeah, I was very happy to see that they sent a set of 4 but I can't use them. They're far too dim to actually use. They're even nicer than the oem since they have nice rubber stalks vs plastic for oem.

Take a look at post #!9 in my thread called
2022 Templar X 250 build quality and assembly
in the pics and video section
(https://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31046)

I had 45 pilot jet but switched to 42. It was too rich. 125 seems right for the main below 1500 feet above sea level. I am at about 800 feet.

one small washer is enough for the shim (~1mm).

Thanks, your thread was the tipping point for me right before I ordered my Templar. I forgot to bookmark it, now corrected. I'm at 300' ASL but will ride up to 2000'ASL mostly. It might be possible to get the carb out without removing the rear frame but it sure made things much easier.

Any thoughts on why my new turn signals don't work correctly? I'm not sure whether to order new signals or try a new flasher relay first. I have no experience with sequential LED lighting. TIA

BTW, I apologize for the lack of photos. I'll correct that soon.

EDIT: I believe I have found a solution for my turn signals. I'll post my results later.

I see. As you can see on my short video, the sequential flasher on the ones I bought go through the entire sequence with the OEM flasher unit. Maybe the ones you got need more time. I hope the replacement flasher has a setting that works.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the new flasher relay. I really think they sent me the same signals you got from eBay. FWIW the headlamp bulb is an H6 and the oem unit appears well suited to a reflector housing.

How many turns out do you suggest for the idle mixture screw? When I drilled the cap the bit hit the screw and may have turned it. IIRC the typical setting is 1.5 turns out but what are you running?

:thanks:

Reply got stuck in the quoted section. Can't seem to edit !

If you want the optimal range: 1 1/4 and 2 1/4 turns out if your motor is behaving as it should be between these ranges (Step 2. in full carburetor tuning post) then you have the correct pilot jet size.


If you want a process to do a full carburetor tuning:
https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=31995

Fixed it!

I tested the new signals on the battery and they work properly so the new relay should do the job.

Thanks Pete! I'm starting off with modest one step richer pilot and main jets and 2 washers on the needle. We shall see.

It sounds like the relay is drawing too much current, dropping the voltage. Yup, needs new relay. Makes sense!

OH... Maybe the voltage is down on the battery. That could cause this too. It should read at least 12.5V, more like 13.2V if charged. I got a Weize YTX5L-BS which fits perfectly, edge to edge in the battery cradle. It has more CCA too. There are probably others with same dimensions. Or try charging your existing battery.

The battery is fully charged (12.65v). The signal controls the illumination sequence, the relay controls the duration of current supply to the signal. The relay was removing current before the sequence was complete. It was dim because only 5-6 LEDs lit per flash. By slowing the flash and extending the current duration the signal can complete the sequence now. This also makes them brighter because all the LEDs now light up on every flash. Of course they are even brighter with the engine running due to the higher voltage.

I got everything back together and the only thing I forgot was the little crush washer on the choke where it mates with the carb and to take photos. I'll put it back on the next time I have things apart. I had two disappointing surprises during disassembly/reassembly. The left side tapped hole in the rear subframe where the rear taillight support frame attaches was stripped and the idle screw is hidden behind and tight against the frame making it very difficult to adjust. The stripped threads are an easy fix but the idle screw will always be a PITA.

Despite the problems, I like it more and more. Now all I need is some 40*+ days to ride it!

Great news! I am using the Winter shutdown to get the bike ready. Not riding in 40's!, so it will be a couple of months.

To confirm the turn signal situation, the adjustable flasher relay works well but the new signals are still not as bright as OEM, although adequate. I like them much better for the far superior rubber stalks and cool sequential lighting pattern.

I normally don't ride much below 50* but since the bike is new and the warranty short, I'm making an exception this winter.

I'd like to ask another opinion on a new issue. My signals, tail lamp and plate holder are part of a small subframe member that bolts to the seat subframe with M6 bolts threaded directly into the square tubing. On my bike there are 2 bolts on the right side and one on the left. The left one is stripped and I was going to drill it larger and tap it for an M8 bolt. However considering how thin walled that rear subframe is I am leaning toward using rivnuts instead. I already have the new M8 bolts and tap and also ordered SS M6 rivnuts from Amazon. I haven't used rivnuts much before and am unsure if this is a good application for them. Thoughts?

BTW, I'm liking this Templar more and more! Great engine! I had forgotten how squirrely it can get on just thawed ground/mud. I was sideways today but managed to stay wheels down and clean. :D

I finally took some photos tonight. Here she is, Mei Lien. I apologize for her appearance, she's a dirty girl. Just ignore the clutter, I'll get some better pics up soon.

Any suggestions on how to dull the black plastic panels without leaving swirl marks is appreciated. Maybe scotch brite pads? soft scrub? It's just a bit too glossy and shows dirt and finger prints too much. TIA

BTW, I ordered the black/orange Acerbis skid plate from Zapkin's Templar M skid plate thread. I hope it fits and isn't too hard to mount. I'm planning to use 1" aluminum bar stock to fabricate mounts. Maybe I'll snap some pics of the process.