Templar X Exhaust De-Cat
 

Planning to de-cat the Templar X exhaust.. fam got me a Harbor Freight Flux welder but it says not for stainless steel.. im a total newb with regard to welding and would have to do some research before even using it but before i waste time on it and cause a potential mess, can anyone confirm whether it would or would not work to weld the exhaust back together after its uncorked, thanks

https://www.harborfreight.com/weldin...der-57798.html

I have welded stainless with steel wire with my mig welder. Only thing is it will rust but didn't matter for what i was doing. I haven't tried it with the flux core wire but thing it is possible.

The biggest issue with welding stainless with mild steel wire is the weld joint itself is more prone to corrosion issues, both during the weld if no shielding gas is used, especially on the back side of the joint. This mainly applies to 300 grade stainless, and it does something called sugaring when welded and not shielded. Flux core may stop some of this on the weld side, but likely it will still happen. This creates a weaker weld on its own. Then, as Jerry mentioned, that weld will also rust easily compared to the rest of the system.

Thankfully, most stainless exhausts are made with a 400 grade stainless, which is designed to be welded on with less issues and used specifically for exhausts due to that. It had less issues with weld sugaring and usually doesn't require back filling to create a reliable weld joint. Easy way to identify most 400 grade stainless is with a magnet, as they still maintain some magnetism, often just weaker than mild steel. 300 grade stainless is not magnetic.

My '23 Templar X has a bulge in the exhaust pipe. I'm not at all convinced there's a catalytic converter in there though. Doesn't look like it, nor is there any added protection I would normally expect to see from the extra heat converters make.

So is there one?

I've did it with flux core, and like Jerry ,and Dan said, it will rust, if you do use flux core, then you want to spray, or apply a generous amount of spatter spray.

There probably is one, on a road worthy new bike. Should be easy to check with something fairly stiff, but flexible. A length of tubing, or hose, drain snake, things like that.

Clothes hanger or bailing wire always works well too.

There definitely is a cat, i ran a flexible plumbing snake until it banged up against it.. glad to know i can do with the flux welder.. need to practice and then can definitely spray with engine enamel afterwards

I will give you a little input about cutting out the cat. I first did it on my Brozz 250 , and it had the larger chamber in the pipe for the cat. I cut only half way through the pipe on both ends of the pipe with the cat in-between. I happen to start my cuts on the side of the pipe that faces the engine, and then I split the chamber holding the cat. It's probably going to be double walled. I then removed the cat with ones side of the inner wall still attached to it. If I remember right, I was able to just pry the other half of the inner shell out. I then welded the piece that I had cut off back in, and was done. I didn't have to worry about the pipe not fitting right, or not wanting to line of with the mid pipe. Every thing fit, and looked stock. On my Hawk's, which had a much smaller diameter cat, I cut the cat plumb off of It , but left the weld beads on both ends of the pipe, and just barely, and neatly ground them down just till my new piece of pipe would fit the existing beads. I had measured my new piece to run in between the existing beads. I just spot welded each end enough to hold good ,but also be able to still be manipulated, and I'm glad I did because I was off. My head pipe wasn't lining up with the mid pipe. I then shaped my pipe the way it needed to be before welding it solid. I would recommend splitting it just to make it a trouble free , but if you do cut it plumb out, don't weld it solid till you get it all to line up.
I don't really know for sure how restricted the larger diameter cats actually are , but I know they are not as restricted as the smaller diameter one like on the Hawk, because the larger ones have so much more area and passages through the cat. I really didn't notice any difi on my Brozz till I gutted the muffler, and I can help to think that was the most restricted part of it's exhaust.

Barbecue Grill paint is best to use.

I used high heat flat black paint on the steel cat bulb on the Storm (I think it is the same exhaust used on the Brozz and Recon, or was). I also drilled out the muffler to gain some flow. I definitely felt a horsepower or two gain, but more importantly, it revs easier and felt more peppy.

I have not tried to work with stainless steel yet.

https://www.chinariders.net/showthre...ighlight=storm

The "cat bulb " looks just like the one on my Brozz, but the muffler was very different on the Brozz. It had no end cap, and was what I am pretty sure a fiberglass lined muffler, and it was probably more restricted than the cat, because it's end was sealed off, except for about a 15mm-16mm opening in the end, and it had a long narrow pipe basic running the entire length of the muffler. I cut the opening large, and was surprised at how long the little pipe was,. I think exhaust gases had to enter the body of the muffler, and then somehow work their way back down to the open end of the small diameter pipe to exit. The bike was crazy quit when stock, and evy after the removal of the cat, but as soon as I opened the end of the muffler, and removed the long thin pipe, it was loud like an aftermarket exhaust. My Hawk evidently has a chambered muffler, and with cat gone, and baffle out, it's louder than stock, but NOT like aftermarket exhaust. I did my Brozz cat removal about like yours , only I cut half way through the pipe on each end of the "cat bulb". .

There is most definitely is a "honeycomb" cat inside the bulge. I failed to take any photos of it after I cut mine out. The cat is actually slid over the head/exh pipe on both ends about 1" and then welded. I cut mine out right at the weld on both ends. I chose to go a different "quicker" route to delete/replace it, but not necessarily better than having it welded up. The stock Templar-x head/exhaust pipe outside diameter is ~32mm (1.26"). 1.375" O.D. (.065" wall thickness) tube has virtually the same I.D. of ~32mm. I cut a section of 1.375"/.065 wall stainless to ~7.25" and slipped it in place of cat and used 2 t-bolt pipe clamps to fasten the ends. Attached is the proof of concept, not elegant, but it does work without the need to weld. I have not done a WOT plug check or re-jetted since doing this. I plan to experiment with idle jet size and needle placement along with WOT/main jet check when I return from current work trip.

I like that. One issue might be at inspection. In Missouri, we are lucky to have waived safety inspections up to 150k miles! That does not cover an inspection needed if you buy a used bike, I think. If you could hide the clamps, it might slip through.

The other issue is no heat shield!

Hey Thumper, in Missouri it's a SAFETY inspection, not an emissions inspection. If your exhaust is leak free and even somewhat muffled it passes. I just had mine done last week. If you shortened the clamp bolts and reversed the clamps it wouldn't even be an issue. I do have to agree on the heat shield, it would clean that area up nicely. Have a great day.

I do have a solution for that, just didn't have time to get it put back on. Again, this was just the proof of concept and I will be finishing it up and share the final configuration in a couple weeks.

My plan is to remove the exhaust and make notches on the back side so it can be pryed open and gutted, this should prevent any fitment issues when I go to weld it back up. Btw, just ordered some .030 flux wire and 14"gloves and once I get the hang of it will do this mod and report back the results.. similar to the other bikes I'm assuming it should net 1-2hp maybe but be a signification seat of the pants change

I did the same thing that IA Grvlrnr did. I cut the cat right out and used 11/4" flexible exhaust pipe that I got on e-bay and stainless clamps. I did use some exhaust sealant on the joints. I removed the nut on the cat and welded it back on the flexible pipe so the heat shield hides it pretty good. Now it is a lot more snappier and revs quicker but it is a lot louder. So now I am working on a baffle that slides into the end of the muffler. Doesn't sound very good anymore but is quiet.

Hmm, figured it would be slightly louder, but alot louder, hope its not crazy loud.. if its the same as the Stonemen exhaust in my son's Brozz, then im fine with that, louder than that and not sure if its worth it

When I decatted my Brozz , it may have been a little louder, but it was still very quiet till I did the muffler. I decatted my Hawk, and it did get some louder, but still not as loud as the aftermarket, even with the spark arrestor/ baffle removed it's not very loud. That being said the cat removal made a noticable improvement in performance on the Hawk, and if it improved performance on the Brozz ,it was more of thinking it may have, but kinda hard to tell, as opposed to the definite improvement on the Hawk . It's probably good to get rid of them, but I think on the bikes that have the larger chamber ("bulge ") to allow the bigger around cat, the cat is not very restricted. These cats remind me of an open ended canister,packed with coffee straws, so it's natural that a cat as big around as a tomato paste can ( like the Hawk) will flow far less than a cat as big around as a Dogfood can( like the cats in the Brozz, and other bikes with the chamber for the larger cat. I have a feeling that I could have left the cat in the Brozz, and just opened the muffler, and still flowed just as free as it did with the cat removed, and the muffler open. On the Hawk, and bikes that have the cat that's basically the same diameter as the head pipe, it would probably just be a waste to replace, or modify the muffler with the cat still intact.

Update: removed the exhaust, cut it open with a |__| shaped cut to the back-side and then pryed up and jimmied the cat out. I then banged back to shape and had a friend give me a hand to weld it back up. I am a total newb to welding so didn't want to experiment on it.
He had to do a couple bridge type welds and commented that it was penetrating to the backside easily. I then used an angle grinder to clean it up and re-installed to the bike.
After install, it was quite loud like it had a leak at the head so i tighthened up further and it was perfect. I still have to test out on a ride but as far as sound goes, its only slighty louder, maybe 20% and not excessive. I'm happy as it was a long time to-do item on my list

Took a test ride today and can confirm a decent increase in power, not huge, but noticeable. I can hit higher speeds quicker than before which is nice and knowing that its not bottled up anymore and equivalent to any good aftermarket pipe without any added cost is a bonus

Good stuff. I need to get some SS flux core wire and knock this out too

You won't be disappointed! On a much longer ride today the de-cat has truly earned its place as an awesome mod, there is a sweet midrange and top end bump that wasn't there before.. i was actually even able to pass a car on a 55mph 2-lane highway up a mountainside hill, that would have been a real challenge before.. and sustain 65mph on speedo (60 mph corrected).. good times!