Intro - Hello From MA
 

Hi there,
I am thrilled I found this sight! A bit about me...

I am in North-Central Massachusetts. I commute to work about 8 miles on back-country roads that are wonderfully scenic, curvy and bumpy!

I have always been an avid mountain biker, and I've always thought "Gee wouldn't a dual sport motorcycle be just as fun, if not better!" At 50, riding my Mt Bike is getting less and less. Plus I would not need to leave the house an hour early and take a shower when I got to work!

So, I was researching "cheap dual sports" and of course found out about the China Bikes! What! You can order a motorcycle from Amazon! Amazing!

I am NOT mechanically inclined at all. Lets get that cleared up right away. I am not aloud to touch tools in my house :-) I will admit - I pay people to fix my toys! My classic Mustang and my 33 Foot Boat!

That's the only thing keeping me from buying a china bike RIGHT NOW, is that I know I will not be any use working on it. However, I did find a local shop that sells a couple of the Chinese brands. They assured me that they put them together, upgrade some parts, test them and warranty them. So, I have not given up on them yet!

So we will see what happens. I am not going to do anything until spring. First I have to go get my permit, take a class and get my license.

If there are any others of us here from MA, I would love to hear from you...find out about owning one of these in MA



See you around!
Christina

Welcome aboard! Probably your most reliable Chinese bike brand would be Lifan. Most of there bikes are fuel injected and do come with a 2 year/12,000 mile warranty. American Lifan will stand behind what they sell as most can tell you one here. Lifan carries two dual sports. The Xpect 200 and the KPX 250 which i personally own. The KPX quality is as every bit as good as any Japanese bike out there. When it comes to dealers, Venom Motorsports has to be at the top of the list for after sales support. There's also CSC which have the TT250 but that will be a carbureted engine and is a push rod engine. Check out the videos in my signature for the KPX.

KPX 250 https://www.venommotorsportsusa.com/...d-street-legal

Xpect 200 https://www.venommotorsportsusa.com/...bike-lf200gy-4

Hiya. I was an avid ultra distance cyclist but at 67, the desire to ever do another century ride left the building many years ago. I get it. I also commuted to work on a fixed gear for many years, until the itch to twist my wrist returned.

I, myself, no longer have a Chinese bike. Well, I have a few with pedals, but that's for another time. You'll find a lot of folks here to answer your questions.

Hi!
yeah, did not do any centuries, but plenty of 50 mile Charity Rides on my Specialized tank! Always loved the rush of wind around me. Now I want to do that again without paying the price for 3 days later! HA!

Another vote for a Lifan.

I've had mine as long as I've been a member. Other than routine maintenance (which includes oil changes, new tires, etc), I've done nothing to it. There was one factory defect specific to model year. They fixed it after mine. They forgot to put some wires in a conduit and it caused problems. I fixed that. After 2020 model year, they don't have this issue anymore

I didn't want another thing to work on because I DO do all my own work on everything and I'd had about enough of it. I just wanted to ride and enjoy.

Only reason it's at 8000 miles (?) is that I've been on my boat lately and haven't brought it aboard yet. So it spent most of this year in storage. It also started up before I even had the start button pressed all the way in this weekend after sitting in storage for 6 months with ethanol gas in it.

In all that time and all those miles (lots of trails, gravel and single track), it has run perfectly. Fuel injection gets rid of all those "it won't start" headaches. It's a pretty well built bike. A great value

After doing more reseach, I have narrowed it down:

BMS Enouro 250
Lifan KPX250 or XPect

I can get either, from a local shop near me, and they can assemble!

Good idea to take a class. I recommend the Motorcycle Safety Foundation, if you haven't found it, yet. For me it was 2 days classroom, 2 days on the bike. After successful completion, they give you a certificate that exempts you from the riding portion of the test for your license. Just need to pass the written.

https://msf-usa.org/

Good luck. Since you're not into wrenching, you should give it a try. There isn't a simpler engine out there to learn on, except maybe an RC nitro engine.

Yeah, 100 Percent. There is a class near my home, one weekend. Done. Between me and my other half, I am confident we COULD get it up and running. Its the fixing things that go wrong that will stump us. As long as I can find a local dealer that would "touch" it if something went wrong...

Whatever you buy, make sure it is from your local dealer, and have a serious talk with them about support! Most of us on this site work on them, so local support is not so important.

All of the things I've done are tuning, adjustments, upgrades, and fixing flats, etc. Mine has a carburetor, no EFI, and mechanically it has been excellent. But some people have EFI gremlins or mechanical failures that they deal with on their own with some guidance or suggestions from these folks. You really need to be able to trailer (or drive it) it to a dealership in a pinch. Yes, you will find people having EFI problems, even on the KPX in threads on this site (you should know- full disclosure ;) ). Rare perhaps, but we don't actually have numbers so it's unknown.

Totally. Not buying from anyone but a dealer.

What Thumper said.

Also, don't be afraid of tackling minor maintenance or a mechanical hiccup. Valve adjustments and oil changes are really pretty easy.

Yes, The the last batch of KPX had some idle and throttle hesitation issues. American Lifan is already on top of it and offer to reflashing the ECU's with new map for free to resolve the issue. Mine was one of the first batch to arrive and have had no issues.

Based on all the positive reviews I have read and the tons of videos that they themselves have put out- I think I have decided on the CSC TT250. The price is right too.

I am impressed how they had so many "how to" videos that they put out themselves. Its kind of re-assuring!

I also like how they assemble and test them before they ship them. I know allot of others do the same, but they actually produced a video showing the process! But the biggest thing is the customer service. They actually answered my email directly, quickly and they are a real shop! If anything goes wrong I like the ability to just call them right up. And finally, I can pay for it with 48 Month Financing at only 9.7 percent...which is way lower that what my credit card was going to be! Comes out to like 80.00 a month!

Anyone want to try to prove otherwise...I would LOVE to hear more reviews!

CSC and Venom Motorsports are very much alike. Only difference is CSC will not send you a bike in the crate if you wanted to assemble yourself. Venom has two shops/warehouses. One in California and one in Canada. Venom also has tons of How to videos. The TT250 is a great bike which will be around $3,330 once you add all there fees. The KPX will run you $3,100 after you add the Assembly fee and take the $100 discount delivered to your door. I'm on my 4th bike from Venom because of there great service. They do offer financing as well.

Remember The TT250 is a 5 speed, Carbureted CG push rod engine with 16 hp that might top out at 70mph out the box. The KPX is a 20hp, 6 speed fuel injected OHC engine that will top out over 75 mph right out the crate with no modifications. The KPX will be the best bang for the buck. Sorry, If I have to make you rethink your purchase. lol

Here are some details of the differences between these two bikes. I made a side by side photo which shows some clear differences that show that the TT is closer to a dual sport frame design, and the KPX is closer to an enduro frame design. I hope this provokes comments and opinions, and please feel free to post a comment...

Attachment 30354

CSC specifications say TT250 has a wheelbase of 55 inches. I can't find the wheelbase of the KPX, but notice that the front fork rake is steeper on the KPX? Just a couple of degrees, but this is useful for maneuvering in tight situations (an enduro trait). Wheelbase and rake interact to create road stability/instability, turning effort, and agility. In my experience on many different bikes, a more relaxed rake that dual sports have make them more comfortable on the road, more resistant to turning. The taller seat height on the KPX amplifies this slightly (just an inch or so), but this is GREAT for the times you decide to hit the trails. Enduros are more capable, even if a bit more work when you are riding aggressively off road, but the responsiveness is way better. This is not subtle in real world situations, but you can get used to either geometry (just a difference).

Footpeg/seat geometry is different:
The cradle of the seat (lowest position) is farther back on the TT and it is a deeper pocket (holds you in place). This is exactly what I experience on my Bashan Storm. It is a dual sport frame, very comfortable but holds you in place. This pocket is comfortable unless you want to have your legs less bent at the knee. I would bet that there is more distance from the peg to the seat on the KPX.

The cradle of the seat is more forward on the KPX wrt footpegs, BUT the seat is flatter so you can choose seating position while you are riding on the highway (can relieve stress), and also allows you to put your weight where it is needed when you are off road. Hardcore enduros don't even have that slight cradle you see on the KPX!

The footpeg position on the TT is farther forward compared to the cradle of the seat (again, more road oriented). Bikes that are known for their agile response, like most BMWs and sportsbikes have the footpeg more directly under your seat. It promotes more upright seating position This is better for your back, and puts you in a position to make quicker changes. Cruisers are the exact opposite, footpegs way forward, handlebars farther back, which is HARD on your back, and prevents quick turning in a bad traffic situation.

The position of the rider on these bikes with respect to front/rear axels is different. I think the swingarm pivot is farther forward on the KPX, but it may have a longer swingarm. If the swingarm pivot is really farther forward, this is another clue that KPX is more of an enduro. Certainly, the cradle of the seat is farther forward on the KPX.

If you get a chance to ride these bikes, you will experience and recognize these differences.

Good points to bring out Thumper.
Christina is 6' 2" tall. I'm 5'10" and on my Hawk, which very similar to the TT250, I feel like I'm pushed forward on the tank because of the seat. The KPX is much more comfortable , especially for a tall person.

Because of the rake angle on the KPX, the bike bike handles so much better than the Hawk which is identical to the TT250.

CSC TT250 is "old" technology. The KPX is "new". given that you have a local shop, I'd lean that direction based on what you've said. Who's going to work on the CSC if something goes wrong?

You will pay more for the KPX, but I think you will like the quality of them better. Nothing against CSC. it's better quality than a lot of the buy-the-box Chinese bikes. it's just dated.

She's actually going to be paying less after you add in all the fees from CSC including having the KPX Assembled with PDI.

See, I knew I asked the right question!

You guys have me thinking KPX even more now. The fact that I can go and see it before committing to it is the number one reason. Yes, and I am tall at 6 ft 2! Its a curse! So, if the KPX would be better, then I think that's the way to go. The more I look at both, I like the looks of the KPX better.

PLUS - There's a website dedicated to it!

There a couple of websites. Mine and KPX250.com which is Kyle from the forum. I still have a lot to add to my website as Its only a couple of weeks old. He also has a facebook group for the KPX which most of the KPX owner here are members of.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/kpx250

Good Greif. Just got the "talk" from the wife. HA! She does not want me "commuting" to work by motorcycle. She told me she is not worried about ME, as she knows I am safe and will be safe...she's worried about all the other morons out there. She said if it was 20 years ago, no problem. Or if I had been already riding all these years. To her credit, she's right. People today are clueless. Playing with their phones, or sparking up their pot while driving.

But all is not lost! She did say she had no problem if I wanted to go Off-Road! She was even OK with the short street run to the nearest woods/trails. Or, even the "occasional" trip to the grocery store or just a cruise around our quiet neighborhood.

I guess I can deal with that compromise! At 50 years old with a young child at home and household responsibilities. I can see where she is coming from. So the dream is still ( sort of ) alive! And wouldn't you know it - a local guy on FB has a Bashon for sale!

This is why I try to stay off the roads. I gave up a few incredible road bikes in the past after scary situations. We are no match for cars and trucks. And around here they drive 4 door F250s and 2500s, and Escalades and Suburbans way over the speed limit changing multiple lanes without turn signals all the time. And intersections are nuts. No place for anything under 2000 lbs.

I use my bikes for commuting. But I also don't drive in the city. Most of my riding is on country roads or off road away from the phone zombies.

Yeah, I totally agree! And I am nervous when I take my 2000 Mustang out on the road! I mean really, a freekin' CIVIC sits higher than I do! I also do allot of mountain biking. Talk about being exposed! One time, I was trying to take a right at an intersection. There was this massive 18 wheeler that pulled up next to me. As the light changed, he decided to cut the turn short. Pretty much left me NO choice but to ditch it into the brush next to me!

One thing she joked about was that I could do what her and her brother used to do. Ride the bike down the road until you see a cop in the distance. Jump off, push it. 'I'm not riding it officer...I'm PUSHING it!"

It took real fear to get me off of these. The old 1982 GS1100E was about the 20th bike in a long list of Suzuki early GS series bike, Suzuki shafties, Honda multis, twins. I was insatiable. The bike was a babe magnet. This photo was taken when I took a sweet older woman out to the glider port for a tow:
Attachment 30433

A MUCH more recent project- my first generation Bandit 1200S. I put a rack of Mikuni flatslide RS smoothbore carbs (with throttle pump), Dyno2000 ignition advance, D&D header with Supertrapp tunable slip on. This bike also got a Nation cycle Cheetah dark smoke windscreen, EuroTail rack, Hayabusa chain and sprockets, braided SS front brake lines feeding Tokico 6 piston claipers from a GXer. It was hard to keep the front tire on the road:

Attachment 30434
Attachment 30435

Sorry about the thread hijack for a trip down memory lane. But I had a really hard time leaving the road, and these specimens demonstrate the reason why, in spades. Hre is another intersting find I picked up one Winter in Fargo ND. I replaced the adjustable windshield with a taller aftermarket version, added a rack and tank bag. I also added custom lower/forward pegs for cruising. The OEM pegs placed you in an aggressive tight crouch. This is the first bike that I experienced a sustained and controlled two wheel drift. It was stable, and thrilling! This bike had a stock mikuni flatslide rack, and it made close to 150hp off the show room floor. Holy cow!
Attachment 30436
Attachment 30437
Attachment 30438

Before that, I built this '82 GS1100G. I found a perfect colormatched Windjammer from a gold wing with a hooded headlamp, added the Kerker header and Amco luggage rack (sliding passenger backrest). Also added a lockhart oil cooler. It was hard to find all of this vintage stuff. FUN project! It was bike of the month (with this picture) on a GS vintage forum I used to be active on:
Attachment 30439

I found a vintage Alphabet true tuned 4 into 2 that sounded wicked on the bike. I toyed with that before settling on the Kerker. Alphabet. No kidding!
Attachment 30440

As someone who has somehow maintained a relationship for a few decades and then started riding again, this rings true to my ears.

I started my return to riding with a basic, level one course with the MSF folks - that also got me my endorsement. It convinced me I could return to riding with getting killed, but I think it assured my partner that I wasn’t rushing blindly into things (and was taking advice on things like protective gear.)

MSF does have additional levels of training, covering all kinds of things. That might help - both of you - when the time is right. FWIW.

It's true. She won't even get on a motorcycle. And not only do I listen more to her, but I also have two kids just getting going in their adult lives. Both of them ride off road. They need me to be present, and healthy! I do miss those fine road bikes, but I just no longer feel that I can drive safely enough to beat the odds.

Unfortunately, training doesn't stop absent minded drivers from lane changing into you, not seeing you at an intersection, or paying more attention to their phone than the road, etc.

I consider myself to be pretty well trained after 5 decades of riding. Defensive driving helps, but I had so many close calls that I gave up.

The four lane arteries around Kansas City have evolved into very dangerous place for cars and especially for motorcycles, and the city streets have endless intersections where 95% of accidents happen. It was those intersections that convinced me to stick to country roads and two lane city streets. Every intersection is suspect. Every one of them. My average speed on the Templar is probably 15mph if you take into account my off road time. Maybe 25mph on the road only.

a dead horse?
 

I thought I would just dust off this old horse and beat it a few more times

;)

OK. I admit it, I am an old fart. But even though I constantly outperform my buff 18-19 year olds boys lifting stuff, I am well aware that experience and leverage are a learned skill. Think bags of cement and my son watching me hoist one over my left shoulder to dump it into the mixer. He couldn't get it past his chest, but he bench presses 4x I can! He ended up having the mixer arms rip the bag and a third of it landed on the ground, and on my shoes :grr:

He didn't see my stepwise hoist using my legs and arms, stomach, upper stomach, lower chest, upper chest, and up and over. 80 pounds.

Yes. It is skill, not brawn that allows us to punch WAY above our weight. But this still looks rough to me. :wtf:

https://www.advpulse.com/adv-preppin...re-motorcycle/

Just catching up on this thread. To the OP, riding on the street is really not more dangerous than on trails. I've been down 4 times now on my KLR and that's more than my 40 years of street riding combined. I use one of my bikes for commuting every day the weather permits. You certainly have to adjust your approach and watch/learn/understand signs of what people are going to do in cages, but it's a learned skill. I'd suggest you start out slow and build your skills up. if you pay close attention you will learn some of the techniques of lane positioning for better visibility and watching for clues as to others intentions. might be a slight movement of a wheel, might be eye contact with another driver, or at least seeing where their eyes are. avoidance movements on your part. when to slow down or speed up to avoid situations. these things all come with time, experience and training.

Thank you for this reply! I tend to agree. I've been riding bicycles on the road most of my adult life. I have learned to be aware out there - mirrors on my helmet, lots of flashing lights, bright clothing, no headphones. Always rode a Mountain Bike - even on the road. My theory being the fat tires and heartier build will allow me to avoid going deeper into the road to go around a pot hole or sand or something. Plus I felt better being able to "ditch" it onto the soft edge of the road if someone got REALLY close!

Never had any issues (knock on wood!) and I went out there every time knowing this could be it for me! With that mentality it kept me focused. I always remember what my Dad taught me when driving - "Everyone out there is an A**shole!"

I imagine being on a motorcycle would be no different really. My biggest fear is the people turning in front of me. On my bike I was always at the edge of the road - going slow enough for plenty of time to see that. Might be different at 50 MPH.

I have already figured out my way to work. I was trying to find quiet roads to commute by mountain bike with - but at 20 miles, the hills would kill me! I'm 50, not 25 anymore :-) I only need to be on major roads for a few miles. Most of them are slow, quiet residential backroads cutting through town. Yea, its longer - but better ride - and would be safest.

I used to own a CSC TT250 and just received a KPX 250 a week ago. I don't think you can go wrong with CSC if that's the direction you want to go. My TT250 showed strapped to a pallet and crate. Once I took the giant cardboard box of it and unstrapped it, it rolled right off the pallet and it started right up on the first try. It had gas in it and showed up ready. Just need to put a tag on it (rode it anyway, but don't tell anyone.) With the KPX from Venom I chose to assemble it myself, I like to tinker. Took 3 hours to do and I took my time. Saved $400 bucks doing that, which will immediately go into accessories for it. I do like CSC customer support. They are prompt and try hard to be helpful and they have accessories on their website that are guaranteed to work. My understanding is that Venom also has good customer support, but the KPX does not have much (if any) accessories anywhere specifically designed for it. Some things work/fit, but it seems to be trial and error until Lifan comes through with some aftermarket partnerships. Regardless, I don't think you will have any regrets giving either one of those companies your money. Now get out there and ride!

thank you! Yes, I think CSC is going to be my choice - I love all of the videos they have online and their website is great. The fact that THEY will actually answer the phone is very re-assuring!

The only thing holding me back from a China bike is - will my local shop EVER help me with it if something major goes screwy? I am not a very handy person with tools, and I'm not shipping it back to CA :-)

Also their financing seems like it would work for me

Dealer near you?
 

Did you mention way back that there is a Lifan dealer near you? I am just north of you in Rindge, NH and I'd like to visit that dealer. Who is it?

Thanks,

Ken

Hi
Yes, I think it was Biker's Outfitter right outside of Boston.

He did not have any in stock, but said he could get them. Wound't it just be cheaper to get it direct though? I am sure they are going to mark it up.

If you go that route, or get one anytime soon, let me know. I'm a few miles from you and would love to check it out.