GioBikes.com and why I will not be doing business with them.
 

Note: for the resolution of this issue see this post

I would like to start of this post with a bit of a disclaimer. Giobikes.com is a sponsor of this website, and I am a moderator. My posts are my own experiences and opinions, and does not reflect the position of Chinariders.net. If anyone has concerns about this post, please refer to the usage guidelines for this forum.

As many of you may know, I have a Gio Beast atv I purchased used and am in the process of repairing. I haven't needed that many parts, however giobikes.com auctions seemed like a logical place for some of them to be sourced from. Mainly the carb and shocks.

I have read many posts on this forum relating to Giobikes.com and the level of service offered both by the company and the general manager John Dem. One of our other moderators, has had only positive experiences. Other members have had both positive and negative. In hindsight, it may have been foolish for me to disregard the negative experiences people have shared.

My first parts order for the beast was for the performance carb (and another carb for someone else). The carbs both arrived in good shape as far as I know, though the packaging was lacking. It has been my experience ordering parts from Gio that they are thrown loose into over sized boxes, allowing them to bounce around quite a bit during shipping. Some packing peanuts, or if Gio doesn't want to spend the money, crumpled up old newspaper would make the packing much better.

The next parts I needed to order were shocks. The gio beast performance shocks have been quite problematic for many of our members here. They are adjustable shocks with a nitrogen reserve. The problem is many of them seem to leak out all the nitrogen. The members who were having these issues were first posting about them in 2009. There did seem to be some hope that a new batch of shocks with black springs instead of red springs may be less likely to be defective.

Foolish me again, I figured with the positive reports I've heard of Gio, and the fact that it is now 2011, with the time being passed, Gio would have sorted out this problem, and not still be shipping out defective products. My shocks arrived, with red springs, and no nitrogen. They will not hold any pressure as it leaks out just as quickly as it goes in. I guess ordering these shocks from Gio was like gambling, and I lost. Chance was not on my side. I hoped Gio would be though. After all it appears to be the largest and most professional out of the Canadian China bike dealers, or at least that's the impression I get when I visit their website. I used the contact form on Giobikes.com to report the problem.

John got back to me pretty quick, and after a bit of back and forth we clarified what part I was talking about (even though the part and order number was included in the contact form, it appears to have been lost). John replied to me and told me he could send out a replacement set for a shipping and handling fee of $25. The shipping and handling on the original order was just over $16, but I guess he tacks on to the handling portion to recover some costs or something. I told him I've heard people had better luck with the black spring version, and I also told him I needed a clutch lever and asked him how much it would be if he could include it when he shipped out the shocks. John never told me how much it would be for the lever.

The shocks arrived. They arrived alone, and with red springs, and no nitrogen. I tried pumping them up, but again, the air comes out just as fast as it goes in. They are very clearly defective, and exactly the same as the original set that arrived. I now have $115 spent towards getting a set of shocks for my beast, and I do not have a set that functions properly.

I sent John another email as soon as I tested them after they arrived.

To which John replied:
Now this is bringing up memories of what I read in the beast shock repair topic, where John claims no one has problems with the shocks. I'm sure many people just bolt them on and never check the pressure. Well if they are satisfied with that, it is up to them, I for one want what I paid for, not a defective version. I understand that we get what we pay for and much of the Chinese products on out machines is of lower quality, but this has been ongoing since 2009 and John is still shipping out defective shocks. I am not saying they are all defective, but that at least the 4 I received are, as well as the shocks received by Waynec, Waynev, and PCD to name a few. The information is available in the topic in the atv forum, as well as a reply from John himself stating the facotry will replace them (which seems to acknowledge that at least some of them must be defective).

The other part of the response seems to imply that I am lying to him to get free shocks, and he will not offer any further customer service to me. I'd like to add I did not receive any free shocks. At best, the replacement set cost me $9 plus shipping and handling since the fee is inflated on the warranty parts. If I received a functional set for replacements though I would have been ok with that.

After John's response, I was a little frustrated because I had chosen to have faith and give Giobikes.com the benefit of the doubt, and trust the positive reviews, rather then the negative ones. I ended up sending John 3 more emails before he responded to me.

(over 2 years may not be factual, as that implies 2 full years, but the issue has been reported since at least 2009)

I was frustrated with the situation and the way the service from Gio was going, and I am sure it is apparent in my emails, but I don't think I was rude or overly demanding either.

A day after I sent the last email John finally replied to me again.

I was waiting to see how things turned out before deciding how I was going to rule on Gio, but after my experience I can tell you I will not be ordering from them again. This site is sponsored by Gio, but I wanted to make my own personal experience and opinion with and of them known so others have more knowledge before deciding on who they take their business too.

With that last email apparently John is telling me he is more capable to troubleshoot the shocks from an hour away without looking at them or asking anything about them, then I am with them in hand. He also did not appear to take note of my comment that I would be perfectly happy sending him the defective shocks back for a refund.

I sent him one more email on the subject after his response, however I am not expecting a reply.
I will be sending John one more email, with a link to this topic. I still hope he will make this right, but I am not holding my breath.
Given that John refuses to offer any support, I've filed a complaint with the local Better Business Bureau. I have no experience with the BBB and don't know what to expect, but I want to try to resolve this, even if John doesn't.

I will offer that John has always stepped up and made things "right" for me in the end, but as you can imagine it was more than a little work, on my part, to get there.

I *think*, living as close, as you do, a visit (with a box of defective shocks) might be in order?

I don't know.............. (I found shaming him get's the best results, I tried, and found "reasonable" not to work so well).

Sorry to hear of your troubles Jim................

Sorry to hear about your problem. I compliment you on your objective and professional post and explanation.

Thanks guys. As far as I am aware, Gio does not like to do business in person, and the address provided by the BBB may not even be accurate.

I'm sorry to hear of your problems with GioBikes, Jim. :( I think your expectations were entirely reasonable, and GioBikes owes you a total refund of your money. :evil: Please do keep us updated regarding the status of your complaint with the Better Business Bureau. Also, thank you for warning other potential customers about the questionable customer service provided by GioBikes.

Spud :)

The BBB said that for that location they are very busy and it could take up to 6 weeks before they can get to a complaint.

I'm sorry to hear that. :( I certainly hope John will communicate with you, and resolve this issue to your satisfaction.

Spud :)

Edit:

After rereading my post, it looks like I was venting so I will revise it to say that John needs to work on his customer service.

Cheers,
Stew

Thanks for sharing your experiences Stew.

http://www.bbb.org/mbc/business-revi...ond-bc-1244182

A quick google search also reveals Gio Bikes has a rating of F from the BBB on a scale of A+ to F. Now there is not a lot of information there to accompany the rating, so it is up for interpretation I suppose.

I tried to post a review of the shocks on the Gio website, but their product reviews are held for moderation, so even though I don't have proof, it is my opinion that negative reviews are probably not posted. I guess time will tell.

Now there is not a lot of information there to accompany the rating, so it is up for interpretation I suppose.

In my book there are not a lot of ways to interpert 'F'. :cry:

I couldn't have said it better myself, oh wise physician! :(

Spud

I agree, I'm only trying to be fair though.

This is pretty much what happend to me also.

I ordered a Exhaust system from them and paid what I thought was a premium for it and for shipping on it.

The Exhaust was sent in a box with no protection on any of the parts and the pipe and can literally Beat the snot out of each other all during shipping. The pipe was sticking out of the cheapo cardboard box when it came in.

I took plenty of pictures the day I got them and sent them to Gio and basicly got the run around until finally he told me to esentially Stuff it and nothing was going to be done about it. Nice..

I just chalked it up as a lifes lesson.

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experience with GioBikes, Dsrt4. :( However, I thank you for warning others. ;) I'm not getting a "warm fuzzy" feeling regarding the customer service at GioBikes. :roll:

Spud :)

I think after the "LIME" auctions started i kinda don't like going their anymore, i'm just glad i got all my stuff when things were good and the shipping rates were much. much better, i'm thinking it will only be parts that i really need if i'm buying there again.

Speaking of shipping rates, i think it's funny they have $20 Timmies gift cards on the lime auctions and the shipping is $16.76 to me, lol.

After having dealt with Gio, now I feel confident if I need parts, I would likely have better luck on eBay... I can get similar shocks, only they appear to not have the issues of the Gio shock for around the same price, and then at least the seller is somewhat held accountable by the feedback, which isn't an option with Giobikes .com. There is feedback there, but I'm not sure what purpose it serves.

I sent another email to John now that he's had some time, I assume it will go unanswered like the last 2.

Hey Jim, Sorry to hear about your issues, it sucks when a business isn't willing to work towards a solution.

If you'd like I have a bin of shocks in the back of the shop, I'm not sure what they are for but your welcome to come by and see if something will work for you.

Cheers,

Art.

Art, you have some shocks upstairs with the quad tires and rims as well. Thanks for letting me root around there today. :D

Thanks Art, I will keep it in mind, though we may end up disassembling these ones and trying to repair them, not sure how successful that will be so I will keep you guys in mind. For now I'm just leaving them to see if I ever hear from John again.

No problem :) your still welcome to check out my goods, I would be interested to know what parts I have that are interchangeable to the Gio's

Thanks for the lesson today weldangrind, I really appreciated you going out of your way to help me out.

I look forward to tapping into the wealth of knowledge this forum has to offer as I am relatively new to the Chinese products.

Nice to meet you, Art. You are lucky to live in the greatest world concentration of knowledgeable and generous Chinariders. SW BC is the epicenter for western CB culture! :P

Doc we have a nice airport too :wink:

Gotta get my passport :roll: . I'll need it anyway. I want to fly to Alaska via the NWT/Alaskan Highway route next summer.

I'd love to visit the epicenter! :P

I think I have a passport but I've misplaced it :lol: Sounds like a good trip you have planned.

I understand being careful, I understand that things can be individual misunderstanding and I also understand that people can make mistakes. All of that said, this company is obviously at fault in attitude at least and I am inclined to believe the OP also about the facts.

SO WHY THE HELL ARE THEY STILL SITE SPONSORS?

Demand an immediate response as a forum on behalf of not just your valued moderator and participant but ALL the members likely to assume that sponsorship has an implicit support from the forum.

What ever bucks they may kick in are tainted dollars and should be declined. I am truly surprised so few have posted in on this thread. I may live the other side of the world, and I am imperfect myself, but dammit, this is simple rip-off and lack of customer care. NO-ONE interested in truly fostering the purchase, use and maintenance into the future of chinabikes can afford to pretend to be non-partisan in such matters when they are as obvious as this.

These forums are not just for poor, hard-done-by, poverty-stricken fools to commiserate over the crap we may have bought, they are for interested, intelligent riders to make simple free choices and communicate in such a way that we get improvement in design, support and understanding. Rip off is rip off , rudeness is rudeness whatever the language and wherever in the world is the dealer. We DO NOT need banners ads for such bastards.

Unfortunately websites do require money to keep them running, to pay for hosting and domains and so on. Frostbite has been very strict that he does not allow sponsorship/ads to interfere with honest reviews and opinions. Sponsoring does not guarantee only favorable posts, and Frostbite has stood up for that. That is why posts such as this have not been disallowed or hidden, I believe Frostbite has a lot of integrity on this matter. Also I am not sure on the details of the sponsor/advertising agreement, there may be a contract as well.

That said I do understand what you're saying and that is also part of why I wanted to make my experiences with them known. As well as why it is a link in my signature.

X2 on everything Jim said. ;)

Spud :)

That is still not good enough in my opinion. I would not be one half as tolerant.

Forums are a modern form of community, one which allows and has to tolerate a lot of strangeness and difference because of its worldwide reach and almost anonymous nature. The same applies to the whole of the Internet. It allows companies to thrive in a new medium of advertising but when they act in an antisocial manner they should, must be interrogated rigorously by the forum which in this case acts as a whole individual (in a manner similar to a company).

There is very little policing and legality on the 'net, a good thing, and THAT is a reason why we have to act powerfully ourselves to question and balance such perceived bad behaviour. Else it becomes chaos, a ghetto where only the rich and powerful survive.

I think the world has seen enough of Companies not held to account, with rich directors making much money and then being held unaccountable for the suffering they start, that then snowballs into major consequences.

The consequences of not taking this company publicly to task (and exonerating it if so found) are that we all lose., not just one member. In the interest of balance and fairness, I propose a banner ad alongside the tainted, purchased one, donated by the good will of the 'site owner' (who is really just a custodian) which says 'THIS COMPANY IS SUSPECT.

Here are a few more from people who think Gio is bad..

http://www.xomreviews.com/giobikes.com

Hey Jim,

I've been taking a break from the forums of late and am just reading this now.. sorry to hear you had this issue from Gio.

I have not dealt with them in almost a year and it seems there's more trouble brewing there.

I do hope for you that 'someone' see's the light and makes this right. I for one remember the leaking shocks post here and maybe I'm one of the lucky ones to get the black springed units.

It amazes me that John, would blame you for the shocks not holding pressure..that 'two sets is unacceptable' line is a real eye opener!
Very odd.

Thanks Turbo, yeah I had hoped since that topic about the shock issues was from so long ago, the issue would be resolved, unfortunately it isn't and John seems to imply that I am lying to him, or at least that is how I am understanding it. Either way he won't respond to my emails anymore.

Heck, for the amount of free technical support this site furnishes to new GIO owners, John should be giving us all super service! I think he gets enough new buyers that he doesn't really care if he gets repeat customers anymore. Not a good way to run a business :(

Cheers,
Stew

Thanks, I hope so too, but am not expecting it. I still haven't heard back from John. A few more weeks and we should be to the 6 week mark and maybe the BBB will intervene. I remember the topic too, and remember John's post in there, acknowledging that the factory would replace defective shocks, while at the same time denying there was a problem. I guess I should have taken that as a sign of how he intended to deal with it, because the shocks I got in 2011 have the same problem as the ones from 2009. :roll:

On giobikes.com you are able to post reviews of products you buy, as well as ask and answer questions and leave feedback.

I wrote a review of the shocks I bought that was honest and truthful, the same as I strive to be in this topic here (and in general). When you write a review it is moderated before being posted. No big surprise, my review did not pass moderation and has not been posted.

So I posted a question on the shocks product page.
It was answered by "admin" on giobikes.com 2 days later.
I replied to the question with an answer as a response to admin.
I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but from my experiences Gio does not deserve it. They withhold negative reviews and then say that there is only positive reviews of their products. This seems pretty underhanded to me, on top of still shipping out shocks in 2011 that have the same problem that was reported in 2009, and then telling me that there is no way they are defective and ignoring my emails.

:roll:


I have now submitted a new support ticket with them (essentially, sent another email).

It is simple dishonesty. Why beat about the bush? They lie to you, deliberately mislead and do not care.about that and this shows it is a deliberate Company policy which along with other reported behaviours shows a very suspect ethical standard and suggests more than that, a deliberate and aware lack of care for customers.

Unfortunately we get this sort of thing because people are far too politically correct, basically weak, to stand up. I commend you and I commend your patience and even-handedness. People think they cannot do anything because it is a 'Company'an entity covering the identities of owners etc.

Well Egypt just found otherwise. I hope one day the site owner here will wake up to the fact that he is allowing a major sponsor of such dubious reputation. It is simple, either you are a liar and deluded, or GIO is. I think you are not, from the presented evidence.

If you are not, then whatever the cost, no decent soul would allow or accept that sponsorship. It comes from the pockets of people like you that have been ripped off. members of the forum. i bet plenty here just shrug and buy from them. I truly hope they too get burnt and learn the hard way. these things can be tested and proven, surely? Why the heck are people so damned weak and uncaring?

Jape, first let me thank you for your comments.

Second, I want to clarify that this has been discussed with Frostbite (the site owner), in the private admin / moderator section, and he is decent, fair, and has integrity. He also has a contract. He has done no wrong in my opinion.

As far as my correspondences and posts on the matter, I am trying to present the information here as a warning to potential future Gio customers, but I am also still trying to work it out with Gio. On top of that, I need make sure I don't cross any lines into libel or slander, and as I'm not a lawyer, I am doing my best simply by being honest about the situation, and not exaggerating. People are free to take the presented information and come to their own conclusions. :)

As far as Egypt goes, I am glad they are making progress towards their goals, the world is in turmoil, and I think that discussion may fit best into another topic.

Point taken, on all points. With Egypt it was not of course a political statement, they seem to blow forums to pieces. More a social one - that monoliths and power-structures and companies can be bought down by peaceful protest such as yours, supporting your attitude.

I am not particularly the peaceful type myself and it is a good thing I do not live in the USA where weapons are so prevalent. as I doubt i would have made it to maturity, well old age, (many doubt the maturity).

If frostbite is so 'cool' has he approached them pointing out that with such unhappy circumstances and information brought before him it is incumbent on him to approach them, as he would like their view,an explanation . He has a social duty to support his forum members as well as sponsors, rather than just take money? Contracts require equable arrangements and can be considered to include propriety, decent behaviour from both parties, in any civilised country.

I got a response from John.

I replied.
I'm not sure if he even has taken the time to read my emails as his responses don't really address anything I've said.

Update.

On March 9th, I received a call while I was at work from Sven at Gio Bikes. I was on a bluetooth headset while driving (a noisy truck), so it wasn't easy to make out exactly what he was saying. Keep in mind I am trying to keep everything I post here detailed and not embellished, but this being a phone call I can not say what exactly was said. Essentially though I remember something along the lines of him telling me that I should be receiving a full refund, and he apologized for the issue with the shocks. He said that they we're low on stock with the shocks and it was possible I received returned defective shocks (or maybe just old ones from a bad shipment) mistakenly, because it is impossible to tell from the looking that they are defective. I asked if he wanted me to send the defective shocks back and he said no.

When I got home I checked my email and had two emails from Gio. It said "
We want to inform you that we have issued full refund for:" along with the order details and price.

I held off posting the update until I could confirm with my credit card that the refund was issued. I now have confirmed that, I was refunded fully for the entire order, shocks, shipping, auction fees, and the replacement cost.

My opinion is that I did not expect this to be resolved after so long. I am happy they did the full refund, although I would have understood not being refunded for the shipping charges, at least the initial ones. And I would have understood (and offered) having to return the defective shocks. It would have been great if it didn't take so long for the problems to be resolved, and if I had not received the service from John, as in my opinion I feel that I was being told I am essentially lying and ripping them off. In my opinion John would be best to avoid dealing with customers, Sven seems to be more qualified from my experience. The issue has finally been resolved satisfactorily, but I don't think I would do it again. Definitely not for the performance shocks. I will be looking into that set of shocks I wanted off of ebay.

Good show! I agree with you as well, John should hire someone to do his customer relations work or let Sven handle it. He really doesn't have the people skills and is too busy (hence the slow replies) to be doing it all himself. Glad to hear you finally got some resolution on it Jim :)