Well... here's where I'm at.

NoBs · 02-04-2020, 06:42 PM

Shorter inseam rider.. Magician would work well height wise but not crazy about the non CB engine and numerous reports this machine is more prone to QC issues. I've also read from dealers literature that the power band is more mild than the Brozz or the Hawk for example. I thought the 250's were pretty much the same ?
Both the Hawk and the Brozz are higher than I'd like, if there's an easy way to lower them around 2 inches I'm in.
The Brozz has the CB engine ( a plus ) and apparently a decent power band as does the Hawk ( no CB engine, a minus ) Even though it's not reported to be as good in the dirt/woods I'm leaning towards it.

I hope that on the few occasions I take it in the Mts, gravel pits, power line trails, hill climbs etc etc I have enough common sense at my age to take it all in stride and not try to ride like I used to. So are they going to make another bike just for me ( and a couple thousand other riders ) or what ?

Deryl · 02-04-2020, 06:56 PM

Same engine in the hawk and magician. Only difference is rear sprocket size. Hawk 50 and magician 45. Lower the forks in the triple tree and get a shorter rear shock. Many people replace the rear shock pretty quick and if you don't replace it, it will lower itself after riding it a while.

Pick the bike you want and make it work for you. Easy to do. If it was me I would skip the magician. Too many problems. I would skip the brozz also. Easier to get tires for the hawk 21 18 tire configuration than the brozz. Hawk is also quite a bit cheaper and a lower quality but not by enough to justify the price difference.

The main reason a lot of us chose the hawk. Price and huge community of riders to help with any problems. Your not going to be the first person to have any problem with it.

NoBs · 02-04-2020, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deryl

Same engine in the hawk and magician. Only difference is rear sprocket size. Hawk 50 and magician 45. Lower the forks in the triple tree and get a shorter rear shock. Many people replace the rear shock pretty quick and if you don't replace it, it will lower itself after riding it a while.

Pick the bike you want and make it work for you. Easy to do. If it was me I would skip the magician. Too many problems. I would skip the brozz also. Easier to get tires for the hawk 21 18 tire configuration than the brozz. Hawk is also quite a bit cheaper and a lower quality but not by enough to justify the price difference.

The main reason a lot of us chose the hawk. Price and huge community of riders to help with any problems. Your not going to be the first person to have any problem with it.

Even though it's only February, I'm ready to buy if the price and specs are right. Unfortunately, there is no dealer I know within 700 or 800 miles of where I live ( Ne Pa. ) to even throw a leg over one.. And I do think its not going to do the dirt much at all.. But if it does, well...
Thanks for the input. : )

AJboughtamoto · 02-04-2020, 10:41 PM

I 've got a 19' Brozz and Im very happy with it, 19/17 is fine for just about everything until you get into more serious offroad/obstacles + it's better on road. If you want the 21/18 setup the "old" Brozz is only $1500. Seems worth the $100-$200 more to me for better dealer support, build quality and counterbalanced engine.

NoBs · 02-04-2020, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AJboughtamoto

I 've got a 19' Brozz and Im very happy with it, 19/17 is fine for just about everything until you get into more serious offroad/obstacles + it's better on road. If you want the 21/18 setup the "old" Brozz is only $1500. Seems worth the $100-$200 more to me for better dealer support, build quality and counterbalanced engine.

Since the 2019 Brozz has smaller tires, did that translate in a shorter seat height vs the 2018 Brozz ?

franque · 02-05-2020, 04:20 AM

How short an inseam are we talking? Barring knee problems, if you're within a standard deviation of height/leg length for Americans, the height issue is merely psychological, and these are light enough that one foot down, heck, even one leg on tiptoes, would be sufficient. I've said it before, but I wouldn't alter the height/mess with the suspension too much. In the long run, it'd be cheaper/better to buy some boots that get you a little bit closer to the ground. If you've raced 2t dirtbikes offroad, this shouldn't be an issue at all, unless you were racing 80cc class bikes.

AJboughtamoto · 02-05-2020, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBs

Since the 2019 Brozz has smaller tires, did that translate in a shorter seat height vs the 2018 Brozz ?

Yeah 34" vs 35.5". Also sorry the old Brozz also has 19/17 setup there is another Bashan made bike the BMS CRP sold by Orion that has 21/18 but not counterbalancer. When I have a chance I want to make a comprehensive list of all the Hawk variants.

bogieboy · 02-05-2020, 08:46 AM

as a taller guy riding an older bike(07 roketa) i find the standover heights of the bikes seem to be overestimated... but thats just me... my bike specs out at 33.5" seat height, but i have a 31" inseam... but i have NO issues getting on it or standing over it...

**JerryHawk250** · 02-05-2020, 08:52 AM

I'm 5'11" but only have a 32" inseam and have no problem flat footing my Hawk. The seat height is around 36" but once I stick my 180 lb butt sitting on it the height is about perfect. With Brozz being a couple of inches shorter you should be okay.

zero_dgz · 02-05-2020, 09:04 AM

Seconded, I am an inch shorter than you and can easily flat foot my Bashan Enforcer (which is basically the same thing as a Hawk). The stock suspensions on these bikes are extremely squidgy and as soon as you actually sit on them you subtract about 3+ inches from the seat height, it seems. I only weigh 145, so I know I'm not overloading the poor thing... hopefully.

Parked side by side, the top of the seat on my Enforcer actually measures about an inch higher than the seat on my KLR650. I'll give you three guesses which one sags more under load, though, and the first two don't count!

NoBs · 02-05-2020, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by franque

How short an inseam are we talking? Barring knee problems, if you're within a standard deviation of height/leg length for Americans, the height issue is merely psychological, and these are light enough that one foot down, heck, even one leg on tiptoes, would be sufficient. I've said it before, but I wouldn't alter the height/mess with the suspension too much. In the long run, it'd be cheaper/better to buy some boots that get you a little bit closer to the ground. If you've raced 2t dirtbikes offroad, this shouldn't be an issue at all, unless you were racing 80cc class bikes.

Inseam is 30 inches. Yes, I do have knee OA and I've thought of my old M/C boots that had around an inch and a half to 2 inch heels on them. Unfortunately, they have literally disintegrated in the garage over the years. I used to do a little M/C with a CZ 400 ( a beast ) and a Kawa 400.. but mostly I liked hill climbing, woods and dirt biking. It was a real PITA to restart a big one lunger on the side of a hill or anywhere for that matter. Plenty of black and blue marks on the calf/upper calf over the years especially with the CZ.
Obviously, the height doesn't bother me when moving, just when stopping. My street bike has a seat height of 28.3 inches, nice low CG.. About perfect..
Any of these bikes would be the smallest bike ( cc wise ) I ever owned. That's one of the reasons it would nice to swing a leg over one of these before getting the CC out and purchasing one.

zero_dgz · 02-07-2020, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoBs

Inseam is 30 inches ... That's one of the reasons it would nice to swing a leg over one of these before getting the CC out and purchasing one.

Same inseam as me.

You want to sit on an Enforcer some time, I'm in PA sometimes...

NoBs · 02-07-2020, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zero_dgz

Same inseam as me.

You want to sit on an Enforcer some time, I'm in PA sometimes...

Thanks for the offer.. I'd like that.

02-04-2020, 06:42 PM	#1
NoBs Join Date: Feb 2020 Location: North East Pa. Posts: 75	Well... here's where I'm at. Shorter inseam rider.. Magician would work well height wise but not crazy about the non CB engine and numerous reports this machine is more prone to QC issues. I've also read from dealers literature that the power band is more mild than the Brozz or the Hawk for example. I thought the 250's were pretty much the same ? Both the Hawk and the Brozz are higher than I'd like, if there's an easy way to lower them around 2 inches I'm in. The Brozz has the CB engine ( a plus ) and apparently a decent power band as does the Hawk ( no CB engine, a minus ) Even though it's not reported to be as good in the dirt/woods I'm leaning towards it. I hope that on the few occasions I take it in the Mts, gravel pits, power line trails, hill climbs etc etc I have enough common sense at my age to take it all in stride and not try to ride like I used to. So are they going to make another bike just for me ( and a couple thousand other riders ) or what ?
	0

02-04-2020, 10:41 PM	#4
AJboughtamoto Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 123	I 've got a 19' Brozz and Im very happy with it, 19/17 is fine for just about everything until you get into more serious offroad/obstacles + it's better on road. If you want the 21/18 setup the "old" Brozz is only $1500. Seems worth the $100-$200 more to me for better dealer support, build quality and counterbalanced engine. __________________ 2019 Brozz 250 1999 Gas Gas EC300 2003 ZX6R 1991 Voyager XII
	1

02-05-2020, 08:52 AM	#9
JerryHawk250 Moderator Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: Houma, La. Posts: 11,851	I'm 5'11" but only have a 32" inseam and have no problem flat footing my Hawk. The seat height is around 36" but once I stick my 180 lb butt sitting on it the height is about perfect. With Brozz being a couple of inches shorter you should be okay. __________________ 2025 Lifan KPT 400 2024 Linhai 300 ATV 4x4 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 (Sold) 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel
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02-04-2020, 06:56 PM	#2
Deryl Join Date: Apr 2018 Posts: 68	Same engine in the hawk and magician. Only difference is rear sprocket size. Hawk 50 and magician 45. Lower the forks in the triple tree and get a shorter rear shock. Many people replace the rear shock pretty quick and if you don't replace it, it will lower itself after riding it a while. Pick the bike you want and make it work for you. Easy to do. If it was me I would skip the magician. Too many problems. I would skip the brozz also. Easier to get tires for the hawk 21 18 tire configuration than the brozz. Hawk is also quite a bit cheaper and a lower quality but not by enough to justify the price difference. The main reason a lot of us chose the hawk. Price and huge community of riders to help with any problems. Your not going to be the first person to have any problem with it.
	0

02-05-2020, 04:20 AM	#6
franque Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea Posts: 1,481	How short an inseam are we talking? Barring knee problems, if you're within a standard deviation of height/leg length for Americans, the height issue is merely psychological, and these are light enough that one foot down, heck, even one leg on tiptoes, would be sufficient. I've said it before, but I wouldn't alter the height/mess with the suspension too much. In the long run, it'd be cheaper/better to buy some boots that get you a little bit closer to the ground. If you've raced 2t dirtbikes offroad, this shouldn't be an issue at all, unless you were racing 80cc class bikes.
	0

02-05-2020, 08:46 AM	#8
bogieboy Join Date: May 2013 Location: finger lakes NY Posts: 2,063	as a taller guy riding an older bike(07 roketa) i find the standover heights of the bikes seem to be overestimated... but thats just me... my bike specs out at 33.5" seat height, but i have a 31" inseam... but i have NO issues getting on it or standing over it...
	1

02-05-2020, 09:04 AM	#10
zero_dgz Join Date: Jan 2020 Posts: 281	Seconded, I am an inch shorter than you and can easily flat foot my Bashan Enforcer (which is basically the same thing as a Hawk). The stock suspensions on these bikes are extremely squidgy and as soon as you actually sit on them you subtract about 3+ inches from the seat height, it seems. I only weigh 145, so I know I'm not overloading the poor thing... hopefully. Parked side by side, the top of the seat on my Enforcer actually measures about an inch higher than the seat on my KLR650. I'll give you three guesses which one sags more under load, though, and the first two don't count!
	1