advrider thread on designing a new China bike...

[bogieboy]

im sure most of you here may be interested in this thread.. basically asking opinions on what to do to make them more marketable here... and Spudrider even got an honorable mention in the thread on page 6...

http://advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=967116

[FastDoc]

With regards to motorcycle production and sales in the US and Canada I thought China may have been the new Japan, ie, the beginning of a market leadership akin to Honda in the early 1960's.

IMHO it appears Communism somehow prevents the attitude and ethic necessary for success in our free market. This is my opinion.

I think INDIA is where the next revolution will be coming from.

[bogieboy]

i somewhat agree, but the big common factor that people seem to say, and i would agree, is parts availability... if there were english websites, and not having to deal with the slow boat from china, or even brick and mortar stores... thats what caused the japanese boom... there were parts readily available... so people were willing to take the risk... now with the chinese stuff its downright hard to get parts... you either have to modify japanese parts, or wait for the slow boat from china via taobao... i dont want my bike down for a few weeks waiting on parts... but i have a china bike... so far i have been able to get parts for it, but i have also had to figure out how to make nonstandard stuff work... if i didnt have a decent mechanical knowledge i wouldnt have bought the bike in the first place... but i do, and it was dirt cheap...

[Killerbracing]

X2 bogie! If I wasn't mechanically inclined, I would have passed on my bike also. Especially in the shape it was in.

[culcune]

Excalibur Motorsports and the TMEC 200 Enduro they distribute has been as close to perfect of a Chinese bike as I would like to get. I have gotten to know Excalibur well, so am a little biased, but they have always had the parts I have needed. The Qingqi/Pioneer XF 200 and XF250 sold through Qlink (200cc only) and SSR (both 200 and 250cc) are much higher quality, but are sold for a much higher price, bringing them into the small financing realm vs theoretically paying cash realm that the TMECs are in.

[Killerbracing]

Originally Posted by culcune

Excalibur Motorsports and the TMEC 200 Enduro they distribute has been as close to perfect of a Chinese bike as I would like to get. I have gotten to know Excalibur well, so am a little biased, but they have always had the parts I have needed. The Qingqi/Pioneer XF 200 and XF250 sold through Qlink (200cc only) and SSR (both 200 and 250cc) are much higher quality, but are sold for a much higher price, bringing them into the small financing realm vs theoretically paying cash realm that the TMECs are in.

The market won't attract a $4000 china bike on payments. The local Q-Link dealer here can't get parts or doesn't know how to.

[culcune]

Originally Posted by Killerbracing

The market won't attract a $4000 china bike on payments. The local Q-Link dealer here can't get parts or doesn't know how to.

Qlink is pretty much gone, so your local dealer should be looking to SSR (assuming the parts are for the XF/XP 200 endures) for parts.

A few people have taken the plunge on the $3k SSR 250 and the $2.5k SSR 200 enduros, and many Qlinks were sold on credit when they were selling in the mid-$2000 range.

I am quite sure that if Zongshen was to find a distributor for their brand-new RX3 adventure bike, as great as it appears to be, I highly doubt anyone would pay the most certainly priced-at-$4k price tag for one. My guess is that it will have to either be sold via one of Zongshen's joint venture partners, such as Piaggio/Vespa/Aprilia (the piaggio Typhoon 50cc and 150cc scooters are Zongshen-made, for instance), or might even an unknown specialty vehicle company such as a company selling a niche police bike since the RX3 does have a police version to it.

Knowing what I know now, and if I was planning my bucket list ride from Yuma to Central America or beyond, I might splurge on the Zongshen, due to its standard features making it great for adventure touring, or the $3k Pioneer/Qingqi 250cc enduro (sold by SSR) because of its known reliability and the broad, worldwide dealer network...but I would be the exception, not the rule!

[SpudRider]

Thanks for posting the link to the ADVRider thread, BB. I wonder for whom the original poster (OP) is working?

[bogieboy]

Originally Posted by SpudRider

Thanks for posting the link to the ADVRider thread, BB. I wonder for whom the original poster (OP) is working?

i too am curious... he doesnt want to say for some reason...

[culcune]

There are a few distributors in Chino, Cal., including Excalibur. I doubt he works for Excalibur, although with the Denali coming out, Wade Liu might have felt a little jilted and decided to have someone produce his own bike for him...which I actually am 99.9% sure is not the case. The small profit margin on Chinese bikes, taking the TMEC as an example, would not make it worth it to bring in a container load of bikes to start with, sell them, and strip a few for parts, as well as the parts they throw in with containers. I know Wade and Excalibur make their big bucks on the HiSuns, with the TMEC 200, the scooters, and the ATVs being gravy for them.

[bogieboy]

i talked to the guy today, hes from Tao Tao... he didnt want to come across as trying to just push the company name, as well as have thier phones flooded with parts inquiries, because they only sell to dealers...

[Killerbracing]

Originally Posted by culcune

Qlink is pretty much gone, so your local dealer should be looking to SSR (assuming the parts are for the XF/XP 200 endures) for parts.

A few people have taken the plunge on the $3k SSR 250 and the $2.5k SSR 200 enduros, and many Qlinks were sold on credit when they were selling in the mid-$2000 range.

I am quite sure that if Zongshen was to find a distributor for their brand-new RX3 adventure bike, as great as it appears to be, I highly doubt anyone would pay the most certainly priced-at-$4k price tag for one. My guess is that it will have to either be sold via one of Zongshen's joint venture partners, such as Piaggio/Vespa/Aprilia (the piaggio Typhoon 50cc and 150cc scooters are Zongshen-made, for instance), or might even an unknown specialty vehicle company such as a company selling a niche police bike since the RX3 does have a police version to it.

Knowing what I know now, and if I was planning my bucket list ride from Yuma to Central America or beyond, I might splurge on the Zongshen, due to its standard features making it great for adventure touring, or the $3k Pioneer/Qingqi 250cc enduro (sold by SSR) because of its known reliability and the broad, worldwide dealer network...but I would be the exception, not the rule!

The RX3 is a whole different animal than we are talking here. The SSR is a nice looking bike. Why are they not more relevant in local dealer's showrooms?
I remember when the Hi-Bird came out. They looked goofy and cost $1200 brand new. I own one now because I gave $200 for it. But no way would I have gave $1200 for it back in 2007.
The motor runs great. The frame is ok. Everything else is getting replaced or modified.

So really my question is, am I spending $2k for a new bike or $2k for a motor and frame because the rest of it is garbage?

[culcune]

If the bike is decent, it should, in theory, be like when Qlink first brought us the XF/XP 200 bikes. If memory serves me, the MSRP back in 2006 or '07 was a little over $2k. I think it was, and to some extent, the best Chinese bike for the money (the "for the money" is the reason for buying Chinese.

For $2k, you will be paying for an engine and frame, but that is about what you are spending the cash on anyway. My TMEC's plastics, while not the best, have held up with the exception of cracking a little after dropping the bike a couple times. The seat has held up very well for the time (it still looks new) I have owned it, and keep in mind, it sits outside, in 100 F + for about 6 months out of the year in the direct sun while at work. To be honest, when I leave work, it is not the hottest part of the day in the summer here in Yuma, and it then gets parked in a covered car port until the next morning. But, I would have liked to have a better frame, since all my engine bolts, and the places they attach in front have broken, and the engine is now welded to the frame where the four engine mounts used to be. In other words, knowing what I now know, if the frame/engine mounts were more beefy for say, $100-200 more (throw in some better grade bolts) the TMEC would be about where this employee wants to go from scratch.

For the record, Mr. Liu from TMEC has offered to sell me a new frame, and even an engine (for a very good deal--really good deal) to take off what I can off my existing bike to create a relatively new bike. I don't know what the legalities are, but he has also offered to get me a really good deal on a brand new bike, too. I would love both deals if I can swing it!