06-27-2017, 12:34 AM | #1 |
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Holiday, Florida
Posts: 672
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Fuel Injection
I saw this video on YouTube:
What are your thoughts on fuel injection?
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Dan-O -2018 Tao Tao HellCat - DOA -2016 Hawk 250 - Kitty Hawk - eBay exhaust, Mikuni carb(120 main/30 Pilot), airbox mod with K&N filter, digital cluster, total LEDs, 17/45 sprockets, RK chain, Shinko 244 tires, trunk, aftermarket levers, burrito tube, skid plate, Sargent Cycle Seat... -2003 HD Sportster 100th Anniversary -1999 Buell X-1 Lightning - Race kit, Buell Seat |
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06-27-2017, 12:46 AM | #2 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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My thoughts on fuel injection are 2 fold.
1. It has the advantage of, if tuned right, being easier to start and overall better average fuel economy. Plus it can adjust for altitude. Downside is, it adds a power draw to an already taxed charging system. 2. A properly tuned carb is better for power and its simplicity makes it generally more reliable and easier to diagnose and repair. Downside is mainly that it has to be re jetted with any large enough change in altitude or climate to perform at its peak efficiency. I am pro fuel injection, but on my hawk I will stay with a carb for now.
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06-27-2017, 06:04 AM | #3 |
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: NY
Posts: 170
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http://www.ecotrons.com/products/sma...injection_kit/
at $599 it would take an awful long time to pay for its self, thats almost half of what some of these bikes cost, also like Dan said it will add draw on an already taxed electrical system, so it is quite possible there would be an added expense there as well. But it would be interesting to see what the power gain would be. |
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06-27-2017, 06:28 AM | #4 | |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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Quote:
EFI offers the adaptability to maintain almost the same level of power as a perfectly tuned carburetor all of the time. That adaptability also allows it to adjust the AFRs to be within it's designated parameters all of the time. This is the real advantage of EFI. Your fuel economy, as a whole in the real world where everything changes, will generally be better and you will consistently have nearly the best power possible regardless of what day it is, if you climbed a mountain, or the temp dips 40 degrees at night. This is also assuming, like the carburetor, the EFI tune is done correctly. The other advantage of EFI comes in various options, like fuel cut at zero throttle, the ability to do lean AFR's at light throttle/cruise/idle conditions (very good tuning required here) but to really take advantage of things like this, full ignition control is also very important. Take those factors into account and this is where the fuel economy of EFI really comes into play. I would personally love to do a microsquirt system on my Hawk...and my Goldwing. I can justify it for my Goldwing to an extent, because a 20mpg gain (already documented on one GL1000) on that bike would save a ton of fuel and cash. The cheapest that could be pulled off would still be in about the same range as the Ecotrons system, if not a tad bit more expensive. To keep with the cheap theme of the Hawk, myself and a couple of others have been eyeballing this system, and one member has attempted to use it on his Vader 125 with mixed results. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/micr...460.0.0.aXtfIl The 28mm throttle body offered in the kit will bolt straight up in place of the carburetor, and has a more reasonable entry cost below $300.
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06-27-2017, 07:02 AM | #5 |
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: NY
Posts: 170
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The manufacturer is claiming 20% less fuel and a 50% power gain, which i find to be a huge stretch of the imagination.
I have to agree with you that the carb on the hawk is gonna stay, I replaced mine with the mikuni and have no issues, I do some riding at higher elevations and a simple adjustment of the air mixture screw after its warmed up does the trick. I got the bike over the winter and didnt ride it very much in the cold weather so I will be retuning it this fall for the cold weather, right now im running a 125 main and 25 pilot the needle clip is in the center and the mixture screw is normally out 1 3/4 turns , the elevation here is around 400ft, some of the places I go in the mountains will get up to 1200ft with an average temp dip of about 10deg. |
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06-27-2017, 08:06 AM | #6 |
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Jonesville, NC
Posts: 136
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I may be wrong (I am a lot) but wouldn't you need at least an O2 sensor for the system to operate at the intended performance and efficiency? I'm sure it works without it but that is one of the main advantages of FI is it being able to self regulate as conditions change. If there are no sensors reporting back to the ECU then it has no information to use to self regulate. Just thinking.
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06-27-2017, 08:13 AM | #7 |
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50% power gain is stretching it a bit. 20% less fuel can be done. I'm a big EFI fan. Been tuning EFI for the pass 13-14 years. I have taken stock 5.3's and 6.0 GM and gained 20-25% HP. Lots more with turbos added. I'm planning on doing the EFI conversion towards the end of the summer maybe fall. Aliexpress has a kit for under $300. The only weak link I see in that kit is the fuel pump but that's an easy fix with a better pump. Only drawback on EFI is the tuning. If you have no experience in tuning it could cost a small fortune to have someone like me to do it. lol.
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06-27-2017, 08:14 AM | #8 | |
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Quote:
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2024 Linhai 300 ATV 4x4 2023 Lifan Lycan 250 Chopper 2023 Venom Evader 2022 Lifan KPX250 2020 Kawasaki Vulcan S (Sold) 2004 Honda ST 1300 2016 Black Hawk 250 (sold) Keihin PE30 carb,125 main,38 slow.Pod filter,ported & decked head 10:1 CR,Direct Ignition Coil,15/40Sprockets,NGK DPR8EIX-9,De-Cat,Dual Oil Cooler,Digital Cluster 2016 Cazador180 XL 2014 Coolster150 JerryHawk250.com My YouTube Channel |
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06-27-2017, 02:40 PM | #9 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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Honestly, on a lightly modified Hawk with properly tuned EFI, even if there was little to no power gain compared to a well tuned carb, I can almost promise there would be a decent gain in fuel economy. low-mid 60mpg with the carburetor could likely see somewhere in the mid 70 to low 80mpg range. Plus, starting the bike would be a lot easier.
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06-27-2017, 02:57 PM | #10 | |
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 96
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Quote:
You should buy a bunch and sell them as a bolt on kit like the digital cluster guy! Or document what you did on a thread here and I'll follow along at home |
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06-27-2017, 10:19 PM | #11 | |
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: East Central Hellinois
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Quote:
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06-28-2017, 12:56 AM | #12 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
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While an O2 sensor is beneficial, believe it or not there are ways to run O2 with no uego correction. In fact, in many instances a narrowband sensor is more than sufficient for most daily driver applications. Where a wideband really comes into its own is the tuning side of things, and with a smart enough ems, target AFR programming.
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06-28-2017, 10:31 AM | #14 |
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Costa Rica
Posts: 82
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EFI won't work without a working battery.
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06-28-2017, 11:21 AM | #15 |
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: George West, Texas
Posts: 4,097
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Hence the word ELECTRONIC f.i.
Guys this is a cool thread! That one that Dan posted looks promising with plenty of info at a decent price. Wonder if somon e like 2lz (who has E.F.I. experience as reported) could strap one of these on to their nc250 and tune away?
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