Templar X 250

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Thumper

After some more extensive testing, the 249cc engine is quick to rev and generates lots of torque even at low rpm. Plenty of power! Even without any advance! I looked at the specs for the X. The carb is listed as a PE28

https://xprousa.com/collections/dirt...-steel-frame-1

The Templar 250 is listed as a PE28, the Templar X is supposedly a PE30.
I’d just play with the stock unit but mine is very, very lean. Needs an adjustable needle at least. The way they have the needle setup in the stock carb with a spring and a couple of plastic retainers doesn’t exactly inspire my confidence with regards to shimming or modifying needle height. For $85 bucks the Mikuni is a cheap upgrade and an industry standard.
It does have plenty of power but it also runs quite hot-that’s my biggest concern. Everything I’ve gotten thus far is going toward the end of cooling it down a bit. After 25 miles even in a nice spring day here this thing is hot.

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I had the bike apart yesterday to look at components and check connections. I will have photos to post. I took out the adjustable rear shock and also removed the stainless steel exhaust. Both nice. I have replacement crushable donuts and re-installed/reassembled everything. All nice components.

The stock carb is tightly wedged in there. I have not removed it because it is running fine. It starts right up with choke, needs choke for a few seconds but then starts easily without choke. I have only run the bike a few times, maybe 5 minutes each time, but the only jetting issue seems to be main jet (pops on deceleration). That may be solve with a needle shim and bumping the main jet up one size.

I am not going to replace the carb for a while. Jetting should take care of it until I figure out how it really performs in the first 1000 miles.

I took it out for the first offroad test for about an hour. Once the engine is warm, the lean symptoms mostly disappear, and it is surprisingly powerful. It reminds of my ~1980 XR500, I picked up (new) in Albuquerque. I need to adjust the damping on the forks and rear shock, but the long travel is great in the ruts and bumps.

Carburetor is exactly what I'm working with currently as well. I've read about pumper carbs like PWK 30 carb. Cheap but good results. Also uses kehin Jets.

For now the stock carb works well enough but it needs correct jetting. The carb on this bike is press fitted unable to open. You-All carbs are good carbs most are high quality but this one seems like a throwaway being it's pressed together.

PWK 30mm Carburetor Motorcycle Power Jet Carb Racing Performance Universal For 100cc to 150cc Pit Dirt Bike Motocross Enduro On/Off Road ATV Quad Scooter https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09J176RX9...ing=UTF8&psc=1

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Okierider

https://xprousa.com/collections/dirt...-steel-frame-1

The Templar 250 is listed as a PE28, the Templar X is supposedly a PE30.
I’d just play with the stock unit but mine is very, very lean. Needs an adjustable needle at least. The way they have the needle setup in the stock carb with a spring and a couple of plastic retainers doesn’t exactly inspire my confidence with regards to shimming or modifying needle height. For $85 bucks the Mikuni is a cheap upgrade and an industry standard.
It does have plenty of power but it also runs quite hot-that’s my biggest concern. Everything I’ve gotten thus far is going toward the end of cooling it down a bit. After 25 miles even in a nice spring day here this thing is hot.

The bike does run hot I agree. I checked mine with a thermal gun. Top end is always hotter buts it 280°. Bottom ends seem to be 230 to 245.. My valves did need adjusting at 500 miles only the exhaust need to be adjusted it had tightened not good for heat.. I like this engine the low end grunt and torque range it very good.

[Megadan]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker

The bike does run hot I agree. I checked mine with a thermal gun. Top end is always hotter buts it 280°. Bottom ends seem to be 230 to 245..

280 head temp on an air cooled bike is pretty decent. Heck anything below 300 is actually pretty cool running for an air cooled bike. That engine is decently powerful but still has fairly low compression, so it shouldn't be too incredibly hot.

[AjjAxx84]

Does anyone know the ngk model # for spark plug and best oil choose for this bike? I want to get both before the bike arrives…. Thanks in advance!

[Thumper]

I read PE28 in the manual that came with the bike.
That is why I said it list PE28 for the Templar X.

I haven't had it off yet, but I thought I saw YouAll stamp on it.

It is Not a throw away carb, and it is NOT stamped together. Those are breakaway machine screws to prevent "tampering" with jetting. To get them out, use Dremel to cut a flathead screwdriver slot. As I said I haven't been into it yet, but I assume there will be a plug that needs drilling out on the pilot circuit adjust.

I have the original YouAll on my Bashan Storm. It was easy to jet and shim the needle once I opened it. I replaced the screws with tiny Allen bolts if I need to get back in there. It is in fact a good carburetor. My Storm runs great!

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Okierider

https://xprousa.com/collections/dirt...-steel-frame-1

The Templar 250 is listed as a PE28, the Templar X is supposedly a PE30.
I’d just play with the stock unit but mine is very, very lean. Needs an adjustable needle at least. The way they have the needle setup in the stock carb with a spring and a couple of plastic retainers doesn’t exactly inspire my confidence with regards to shimming or modifying needle height. For $85 bucks the Mikuni is a cheap upgrade and an industry standard.
It does have plenty of power but it also runs quite hot-that’s my biggest concern. Everything I’ve gotten thus far is going toward the end of cooling it down a bit. After 25 miles even in a nice spring day here this thing is hot.

You can always buy a new carb, but you don't need an adjustable needle. Shim it with washers. This trick is an old one! I did it on GS550, and many CV carbs on GS series shafties (850G, 1100G). I did this on the YouAll on my Bashan Storm. Works great.

[Thumper]

Regarding heat... I have only ridden for one off-road session, and I assume as a new engine, friction may be higher until it gets broken in. Also, I did not check valve clearance. I wanted to get the engine through a few low stress heat cycles (riding it moderately) to make sure the valves are mostly seated and any high spots on the cam, rockers etc are worn down. Then the adjustment will be more stable anyway.

Tight valve (exhaust) can cause excessive heat, so I won't wait much longer to get in there and adjust.

Lean jetting also causes excessive heat.

Once I get the carb reset and shimmed, and valves adjusted, and it has some hours on the engine, I will reassess the heat issue. There's room for oil coolers on the front frame tube (and threaded mounting posts).

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Thumper

You can always buy a new carb, but you don't need an adjustable needle. Shim it with washers. This trick is an old one! I did it on GS550, and many CV carbs on GS series shafties (850G, 1100G). I did this on the YouAll on my Bashan Storm. Works great.

I’m familiar with that.
Take the carb apart and check out the plastic retainers used to hold the needle in place.
It would require modification of quite flimsy plastic retainers that clip into the sides of the slide, unlike others that use a metal plate retained by the slide spring pressure.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Okierider

I’m familiar with that.
Take the carb apart and check out the plastic retainers used to hold the needle in place.
It would require modification of quite flimsy plastic retainers that clip into the sides of the slide, unlike others that use a metal plate retained by the slide spring pressure.

I will check it out when I pull the carb on the Templar X. I didn't notice any problems on the OEM carbs on the Storm or the TBR7 (YouAll). In fact, the metal clip that holds down the needle in the slide was held down very securely by the slide spring (throttle spring) once I reconnected the cable. Holds the needle down securely. And those slides don't experience any significant stress. Just vibration, but so far, so good.

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Thumper

I will check it out when I pull the carb on the Templar X. I didn't notice any problems on the OEM carbs on the Storm or the TBR7 (YouAll). In fact, the metal clip that holds down the needle in the slide was held down very securely by the slide spring (throttle spring) once I reconnected the cable. Holds the needle down securely. And those slides don't experience any significant stress. Just vibration, but so far, so good.

Yeah this has a strange slot milled into the slide that a circular plastic retention cap snaps into. The cap is made in such a way that it has a small internal spring that holds the needle down. There is another plastic ring that sits atop this that the spring sets on. It’s substantially more complicated than the original Mikuni.
I could make it work, no doubt about that, but I’d rather work on Japanese precision than Chinese imitation.

In other news-I received my Henner motorsports timing advance key today. All told less than a week from when I placed the order last Tuesday night.

I also received my amended title from X-pro: now says 19hp and under bodytype: Motorcycle.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by Okierider

Yeah this has a strange slot milled into the slide that a circular plastic retention cap snaps into. The cap is made in such a way that it has a small internal spring that holds the needle down. There is another plastic ring that sits atop this that the spring sets on. It’s substantially more complicated than the original Mikuni.
I could make it work, no doubt about that, but I’d rather work on Japanese precision than Chinese imitation.

In other news-I received my Henner motorsports timing advance key today. All told less than a week from when I placed the order last Tuesday night.

I also received my amended title from X-pro: now says 19hp and under bodytype: Motorcycle.

Got the carb off, and float bowl off. I see but haven't removed the jets. Yup. It is different. I saw the round plastic "retainer" in the slide.

How many degrees advance on the key?

[Nutcracker]

Interesting I did not think it would be worth cutting the rivet's. I just had it figured I would upgrade the carb to something else. Maybe your on to something good. The carb does pretty good just has popping on deceleration. My plug shows good color not running very lean.

A properly jetted carb and advance flywheel key sound like it's going to be a very good upgrade.

MSO says Motorcycle & no mention of off road only. What a deal no sweat getting it tagged.

[Nutcracker]

Originally Posted by Megadan

280 head temp on an air cooled bike is pretty decent. Heck anything below 300 is actually pretty cool running for an air cooled bike. That engine is decently powerful but still has fairly low compression, so it shouldn't be too incredibly hot.

That gives me more confidence. I have read above 300° on this motor but that is the highest. I was thinking like that's cooking & how can oil viscosity maintain under that temperature. I know thats the too end temp and bottom end is alot cooler. You are correct on low compression keeping temps down.

Will the advance timing key cause more heat?

[Okierider]

Originally Posted by Thumper

Got the carb off, and float bowl off. I see but haven't removed the jets. Yup. It is different. I saw the round plastic "retainer" in the slide.

How many degrees advance on the key?

4*
Weird setup isn’t it?
Honestly if I wasn’t bogging in the midrange as badly as I am I never would have thought twice about it.
On the plus side it appears (we shall see) that the Mikuni 28 is the same form factor as the 26, which would be slightly smaller than the original unit overall. I’ll post up tonight when, God willing, it’s all bolted together.