01-19-2021, 11:39 AM | #16 | |
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Yuma, Arizona
Posts: 9,055
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As far as a $2k machine, check out the Orion RXB 250L. Probably the best value and even uses an actual 249cc engine (vs. the Pitster and Kayo 230cc engines). Personally, this is the bike I would get out of the higher-end ones you mentioned in your first post above, and others mentioned. https://www.orionpowersports.com/ori...embled-tested/ The NC250 is Honda-ish based. Most every engine is a Honda-ish or cloned engine. There happens to be one Suzuki-clone, the SSR XF250 dual-sport, which uses a clone of the Suzuki TU250 engine but except has a carb vs. the TU's fuel-injection. Member dh owns one and is our resident expert on the beast. He commutes on his a few times a week from the so-called 'inland empire' outside Los Angeles to downtown Los Angeles (one of two Chinese dual-sports CARB certified for California) a distance of 70 or so miles each way. Their MSRP is around $3200, and might be worth look as well.
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"They say that life's a carousel, spinning fast you got to ride it well..." TGB Delivery Scooter 150 TMEC 200 Enduro--carcass is sadly rotting in the backyard Last edited by culcune; 01-19-2021 at 11:47 AM. Reason: Add information |
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01-19-2021, 12:45 PM | #17 |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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Yeah, there are a couple of bikes that sit between the Hawks and GPX in terms of price, but they also kind of only fit into one real category. They are "Dual Sports" of the more heavily offroad variety, and thus not very comfortable, or very large in fuel tank capacity. The latter might not be a big deal to some, but I personally get annoyed having to fill up a bike every 80-100 miles.
Honestly, the XF250 is likely the only bike in that price range that does fit into the more road worthy of the dual sports. It's still an air cooled 250, but it has more pep in its step than the CG based motors in the Hawks.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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01-19-2021, 06:26 PM | #18 | |
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Argentina
Posts: 756
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You may say, but the rear suspension lack linkage, it is inferior and the front is thin. Indeed they are inferior in that regard and you won't be jumping with them, but they will last for a long time. These motorcycle were not designed nor intended to be ride on the weeked with a nice leather outfit. They were made to be a cheap daily means of transportation. I sold my Enduro CG around march 2020 to a Nurse that was in need of a cheap motorcycle. He lives near my flat, the other day i saw him and the CG. In less than year he put on the clock around 13000 miles, the engine still runs fine and the frame still holding some rust spot here and there (i'm the one to blame). |
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01-20-2021, 10:06 PM | #19 |
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Maine
Posts: 111
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Interesting read. I think it would be impossible to find a perfect "all purpose" motorcycle, and anyone serious about riding would have more than one bike depending on the use (I just chuckled at myself but it's kind of true lol).
My "favor" for off road/rural riding is a light 250 class because I'm fat and 50. A younger kid would much more prefer a heavier 300+cc bike with an acrobatic suspension (And could handle the highway much better as well). I find the 250 easier and more fun to maneuver. Long ride pavement it's liter bike hands down, cruiser or sport for me. |
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01-21-2021, 04:15 PM | #20 | |
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Southwestern US
Posts: 7
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Husky Fe350s (pricy, unmatched performance) KTM 350EXCF (pricy, unmatched performance) Kawi KLX300 (modern EFI dual sport, super heavy) GPX FSE300 (EFI, 6spd, upscale suspension, good price for value) GPX FSE450 (EFI, 6spd, upscale suspension, good price for value) Or, go the mod route and upgrade a 250: KLX250 to KLX351 big bore WR250 to WR300 big bore Even the Chinese LC250s have a 283 big bore kit Just examples of lightweight, sub 500cc dual sports (using that term loosely) that can do highway miles but also perform off road. J |
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01-21-2021, 08:05 PM | #21 | |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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The Husqs and KTMs. I am not even going to comment lol. Pricey is the least of their issues. And much like the GPX bikes they "inspired" they are more dirt bike and lack proper street bike capability. Just because a bike can be used on road, doesn't make it a street bike. So, out of all your examples, the KLX is the only exception to the rule in my eyes. Proper fuel tank size for better range, as well as rider comfort is often where many "dual sports" tend to lose points. in my eyes. Not saying you are necessarily wrong either. All of those bikes could be used as a road bike for sure. I think the KLR650 is probably one of the best analogs for a proper "Dual Sport" as I define it in my mind, just for an example.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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01-22-2021, 09:26 AM | #22 |
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Marseille, France -> Conakry, Guinea
Posts: 1,481
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Hey, just to clarify, that's completely incorrect. It's closer to the KTM RFS engine design, but it was actually a clean sheet design that Zongshen and Piaggio collaborated on for production purposes, but was designed by Kiska design, a company that does a lot of engineering for KTM, hence the similarities.
I'll have to dig up the source for the aforementioned statement, but Honda has only made three liquid cooled 250s that I'm aware of, the NX250 (definitely a different engine, not really a success for Honda), the XR250 Toronado, which is a South/Central American market motor, and the 2018+ CRF250R (which would obviously not be possible for Zongshen to have copied). If you google the images for any of those motors, it is clear that they are not a basis for the NC250. That being said, Zongshen has adapted the head to a CB-based bottom end, as evinced by the Lifan swap project seen here. |
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01-22-2021, 12:16 PM | #23 | |
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 8
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The power on these Air Cooled 250 (18HP) and weight (250lb) just doesn't inspire me. I guess I'm asking too much for too little.. |
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01-22-2021, 03:51 PM | #24 | ||
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Argentina
Posts: 756
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The XR 250 Tornado is air cooled with an Oil radiator. Honda even sells it as Air cooled. Quote:
That's because they are not 250cc, they are 230cc. If you want something that's truly off road, then you are barking at wrong tree and i'm not talking about these motorcycle being chinese but the whole 4 Stroke For having fun off roading, nothing beats a 2 Stroke. Call it YZ, KX, RR, SX. But a much higher price tag, the cheaper being th Beta RR 300 40 hp 229 pounds. But even these 2 stroke will need a good amount of maintenance. I have a friends who only do off road and track, only 2T. After 40 hours they are always getting a new top end. |
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01-22-2021, 04:29 PM | #25 | |
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 8
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Yea, I guess I want too much! Want to be able to do 65-70 w/o loosing feeling in my body but roost off road. What I read the GPX TSE250 (counter-balanced 230cc 2-stroke) are know to go >200 hrs w/o needing a top end? IDK if that's true but I enjoy wrenching anyway so I see this as a plus. But we're at 5K and the FSE300 w/injection - not so much fun but more power ? If $$$ were no object I'd be all over the KTM... |
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01-22-2021, 04:36 PM | #26 | |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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The "Power for having fun" in the 4 stroke world is a 450cc bike, hands down. This gets you the similar power figures to a 250 2 stroke. That still doesn't alter how the power is delivered, which will always be different. Where 4 strokes tend to shine, especially in the last 10-15 years, is longevity/maintenance intervals. That and when comparing carbureted versions, being a lot less sensitive to jetting and climate changes.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 Last edited by Megadan; 01-30-2021 at 08:10 AM. |
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01-22-2021, 04:51 PM | #27 | |
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Argentina
Posts: 756
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For pure off road, it's hard to beat a 2 Stroke when it comes to fun factor. I just love too much that feeling when you give throttle to a 2T. That push is just great. Honda should stop with the tantrum and bring back the CR, they tried to beat the 2T with a 4T they lost... Just make a lot of people happy and bring back the CR series. About the longevity/maintenance intervals. Yes the 4 Stroke wins 99% of the time... With the 2 Stroke there is always something to fix. Most of my friends can't get more than 80 hours from ANY brand and they don't ride that hard. In fact my 2 Stroke is gathering dust because i got a bit tired of fixing something or rebuilding the top end. |
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01-22-2021, 05:26 PM | #28 | |
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 8
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4T (why the T in 2T 4T?) mostly aren't revvers and 2T known for vibrations. The GPX TE250 is low-mid range & counter balanced. Changing rings every season sounds more like labor of love and let's face it - every bike ridden hard needs a yearly good once-over .. |
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01-22-2021, 05:35 PM | #29 | |
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Argentina
Posts: 756
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Takt ---> Takt Time ---> Cycle/Period So a 4T it's a 4 "Cycle/Period" and a 2T is a 2 "Cycle/Period". If you speak French(temps), Spanish(Tiempos), Portugues(Tempo) or Italian(Tempo) that T fits About maintenance, 2 Stroke are more needy. Even friends with KTM can do at best 60/80. The worst offenders about 30 hours but in this case we can blame the rider. I know a few that do pure off road with R machines and they can get above 100 hours. L and F Hondas are pretty much "street" machines and you can expect them to last like any other street motorcycle. |
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01-22-2021, 05:56 PM | #30 | |
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 8,100
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Without going into long winded explanations, the same things that make a 2 stroke good (lack of valves, high power density) are also the cause of their limitations - fueling sensitivity, heat issues, etc. The biggest argument many 2 stroke enthusiasts tend to make against a 4 stroke is the valve maintenance, but that argument always used to make me laugh. A valve check vs. rebuilding a top end is like comparing taking a laxative to a colonoscopy.
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Hawk Information and Resource guide: http://www.chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=20331 2018 Hawk 250 - Full Mod list here. http://www.chinariders.net/showpost....62&postcount=1 2024 Royal Enfield Shotgun 650 https://chinariders.net/showthread.php?t=34124 |
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